Sugi-Hara vs Tsumura?

[sawfun]

Nothing like making a series of plunge cuts with a 50" bar. Then you notice some bar sag. Another reason for deeper bellies on long bars as the increased metal keeps it stiffer. I tried a 1/4" thick 42" harvester bar, and while no sag at all, it had a wider kerf, which with .404 was no trouble. However the difference between 3/16 & 1/4 in weight was considerable. On a 60" and longer the sag is bad enough that a pilot saw (32" - 36") is called for. No problem when bucking but sure is when falling. Talk about bar sag, a guy I know had a 10' bar custom made for milling (double ended 090G's) a giant oak or walnut (I forget which), anyway, he is talking about using a magnet to help hold the center agsinst sag.

 

[DarthTater]

Question, should I Stick with .50 gauge or go a bit larger?

Also would that require a new rim sprocket?

 

[watsonr]

you can run .050, .058, or .063 on the same rim. Changing to .063 would put you out of the Sugi Hara market as the bars only come in .050 for Stihl mount.

 

[DarthTater]

is their any particular benefit? i have read some suggestions that the larger gauges keep oiled a bit better but I have no experience with them.

 

[watsonr]

The driver is filed to fit the gauge. I don't think it much matters, everything above the rivet is .063, but there are people who will argue one way or the other.

 

[SawTroll]

Question, should I Stick with .50 gauge or go a bit larger?

Also would that require a new rim sprocket?

.050 really is a meaningless gauge, as long as the top part of the chain is the same as in .058 with Oregon, and same as in .063 with Stihl chain.

 

[sawfun]

Well, .050 gauge must be good for something as a new Husky will come with it. Not much .058 in these parts. I believe Madsens sells likely more of it than any other gauge. And they sell alot! Could be one or two loggers around use it. Must be PNW or a West Coast thing.

 

[SawTroll]

Well, .050 gauge must be good for something as a new Husky will come with it. Not much .058 in these parts. I believe Madsens sells likely more of it than any other gauge. And they sell alot! Could be one or two loggers around use it. Must be PNW or a West Coast thing.

.050 mostly is common in certain parts of the US, likely as a result of tradition - in the rest of the world it is an oddity (in regular 3/8" and .325).

 

[palbin]

0.050 with 0.325 sucks - but one can use 0.050 with bigger
chains IMHO - for example, 3/8 on an otherwise 0.325 saw.

I have heard people with a lot of routine claim that 0.050 is
just a result of mean saw manufacturers wish to save a few
quarters or so on metal?

HVA have s lot of small saws with 0.325 - e.g., 240, 242SG
etc - on them it seems to me 0.050 should be right?

 

[redbull660]

already posted this but maybe the dude didn't read it.

and weedeaterman carries sugihara in 063 stihl but only in 32".

basically if you want light weight bars in -
.050 16"- 28" you get sugi hara light
if you want 063 20-36" you get tsumura light

Both are nice bars. I already posted the differences in weight between all the bars. Lot of over factors involved I guess. But here is what I think on 050 vs 063 at least for 28" and above.


050 vs 063

I did a test where I did 10 total cuts in different wood with 28" bars (stihl 28" 050 & 063, tsumura 28" 050 & 063, & cannon 28" 050 & 063.) on a 660 running full oiler.

I then put all the bars in a vise and looked at the oil saturation in the bar grooves. There was a nice difference between how dry and wet the 050 and 063 are. ie. 063 bars were more saturated/wet in wood chip pack in the groove.

So does 063 oil better from 28" and up ? I believe it does.

Is 063 stronger? In some brand chains I believe it is. In stihl 050 chains, it's 063 up top, bottom half of the Drive links are swagged down to .050.

that said - I think it's far easier for the bottoms of 050 drive links to get dinged up vs .063. - from the chain coming out of the groove from needing to be re tensioned, or a long bar sideways cut or whatever. I have 30+ bars at the moment and all my testing I'll say that the only chains I've had an issue with the drive links getting dinged up are .050.

not so important - having/testing so many bars i'm constantly changing things around. I will say that mounting a .063 chain is far easier. Especially when the saw isn't on a table in the ideal setup. Doesn't really apply, but worth mentioning I guess.

lastly - 063 may not be on the shelf much where I am, but I can order 063 RS all i want. And at this point I think that's the best chain stihl makes. Square ground doesn't stay sharp. Rapid Micro isn't good in the long bar. Full skips seem to dull faster. Now if Stihl would make a rapid super half skip...that would be the ticket.

 

[palbin]

No I didn't read this earlier - if you wrote it earlier - sorry ... .

Anyway, I guess 0.058 is the most interesting chain category for
most people (rather than 0.050 or 0.063 ...).

In the Swedish verison of this forum people claim that all chain
gauges have same cutters - just different gauge - and therefore
reduced weight for lesser gauge chains - making them more in-
clined to overheating - I am not sure that I totally belive in this
with the cutters - but for sure 0.050 overheat easier than 0,058
and 0.063, or?

I do not belive that 0.050 have poorer strength than say 0.058 -
for Carlton and Oregon 0.325 and 0.375 chains have the same
preset straps and tie straps (or whatever they are called) ... that
is, no difference ... and how many chainbreaks do you have ...
really?

Anyway - more weight in chain makes sense - within reason -
besides giving more metal to warm up (overheat), it gives more
moving mass and therefdore smoother cutting, or?

 

[redbull660]

more weight in chain?

stihl 36" 063 - 568 grams
stihl 36" 050 - 550 grams

18gram diff which for us American blokes translates into .035 oz ..."yer killin me smalls"

 

[palbin]

WHY do 0.375 pitch chains have an actual (measured) pitch that
is lesser than 0.375, by the way?

(You can just measure the actual pitch yourself with reasonable
precision and will easily establish this fact ... .)

I mean if they were designed to be labeled 0.375 from the beginn-
ing - why don't make them 0.375? And if they were not desigend
to be 0.375 originally - what were their original specs?

When I measured I found that 3/8 = 24/64 was a close as 23/64
to the actual pitch (which is about 23.5/64), and therefore concl-
uded that they labeled it 24/64 = 3/8 because that sounds a lot
better than 23/64 ... ?

 

[palbin]

more weight in chain?

stihl 36" 063 - 568 grams
stihl 36" 050 - 550 grams

18gram diff which for us American blokes translates into .035 oz ..."yer killin me smalls"

Don't blame me mate - that is what seasoned people claim on

www.skogsforum.se

you can check it out youself - but it is in Swedish ... ... .

Anyway I think thicker chains overheat less that leaner ones
... .

 

[c5rulz]

I've got a major beef regarding Tsumura bars......
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The darn things are just too pretty to use.