swabish vs. distal

[Smith]

schwabisch prusicks

Does anyone out there use a schwabich prusick to climb on? I've used it on a couple of jobs and for some rec. climbing. I find it can be used like a blake for hip thrusting or like a V.T but with out a micro pully. Has anyone had problems with it slipping? I think I'd like some info on it before I start using it exclusively.

Thanks

 

[tshanefreeman]

Smith,

I climb with the Schwabisch Prusik practically everytime that I am up in a tree, walking amongst the branches. If I have to hip-thrust upto the lower limbs (ex: if they were upwards of 10-20' from the ground), I usually use a Blake's Hitch, which I can tie in such a way as to maximize my knot advancing. Once I am on the desired branches where I'm to begin working, I will hook in with my lanyard, untie from the Blakes, and tie my Schwabisch. It sounds like a lot of wasted time, but really it only takes a few minutes; which I feel that are easily saved once climbing amongst the limbs.

I tie my Schwabisch prusik using a 12" eye-to-eye prusik rope. The prusik is tied around the climber's line, and then hooked to the saddle's D-ring with a carabiener. I also make use of a micro-pulley to aid in the advancing of the knot. I find that knot advancing is far easier when I can simply pull upwards on the slack end of the climbing line.

As for the performance: I find that this particular prusik is the best friction hitch that I have used to date. I first began climbing with the Tautline Hitch and found that it sometime loosened and turned into the dreaded 'Sui-Slide'. However, the Schawbisch and even the Distal Prusik (which is a simple variation of the Schawbisch, just that the tails end up facing away from each other, instead of in the same direction) seem to preform far better. I never have to worry about screaming my way to the ground!

A tip that I can give you, is that I use a 16-strand 12" eye-to-eye prusik tied in the pre-described fashion. It never fails! However, I first tried the Distal Hitch (the Schwabisch variation) with a 3 strand eye-to-eye prusik. This setup sometimes slipped slightly.

Goodluck with your climbing.
Shane Freeman

 

[Greg]

sp

I use a swabish only for attaching my micropulley to my climbing line for knot tending, and only because it is very quick and easy to tie. I've tried climbing with it and found it just locks up too much, but I say that about every climbing hitch except the blakes and Distal.
The distal is a great knot, I use it on my lanyard with a william biner and micropully. The distal set up on my 15foot lanyard makes it my most used peice of gear.

Smilies are annoying!
Greg

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

i favour a distal, and New England 3 strand Hy-Vee as my 'tail'.

i think the stifness of the 3 strand makes a lot of diffrence in how it grips the line, this is a medium lay. For me Tree Master is to stiff and 'opens' too easy allowing sliding. I like 3 strand in tails and lanyards because it is so easy to eyesplice, especially with Hy-Vee; as 1 strand is marked.

i also think that 3 strand on a braided line has interesting gripping characteristics. For a while i even used a 3 strand 5/8 for a tail; so maybe my habits are sharpenned from that time!

 

[Smith]

thanks for the info guys. I was wondering if any of you have tried to use the schwabisch with out a micro pully? last time I used it I could advance my knot the same way without a pully as with. Is this a normal characteristic of this knot (mabey I should check how I tied it!)

Thanks Again

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Shane, have you tried using ascenders on DRT to get to a working hight then putting the working knot in?

 

[Rob Murphy]

As a old body thruster from way back i am using this system rather than change hitches. I havent tried combined with pantim but will shortly.Of course srt for really big stuff!







To move the friction hitch away from me if Iam doing body thrusting and want to get full extension I.....
1)Form a marlin spike on climbing line above terminal knot(set at desired distance)
2) unclip beaner with friction hitch and micro pully from D on Harness..
3)clip said beaner into marlin spike
And away I go...
Note: friction hitch and pulley set on small end of beaner.
Adv..simple system
DisAdv..Must clip in to change crotches,dont set knot too far away as it can be difficult to reach.

 

[Rob Murphy]

Distal or schwabich slipage seems more to do with rope combo's than the qualities of the knots themslves.
Murh sumising..........

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Wow, very good Murph!

i think that it makes tons of diffrence, on the timing of body thrusting. Keep psyched that you are working a 2/1 - friction machine; use low friction.

When i buck my hips up, i allow my chest and shoulders to fall back violently while tightly gripping rope to my face; all in one motion. i try to minimize arm usage, by making the input power for this 2/1 machine - the action of my chest and shoulders falling back. When bucking hips up, i have legs folded to me for less leverage against me while fighting gravity; keeping its awesome pull minimized. Then i pull down on arms at bottom of motion as that is used to complete action of pushing hips up. While kicking out and rock extended legs down with gravity pulling at maximum on leverage of feet/ legs, to leverage chest up through pivot of seat connection!

In a lot of SRT/DRT i have observed a common denominator of fighting the weight of head, chest , shouders and arms as something that can take a lot of energy in itself . Instead of that energy directed straight into goal. Keeping them in line with rope can be very important and draining. Eye see that as a function of our assembly; that part of the body and its mass are leveraged against the pivot of the seat connection. They are the most weight at the farthest point of the lever, well in most anyway! Perhaps the feet are farther, but lighter, and easier to lessen leverage, by folding up under neath. Also in vertical position, naturally hang under seat connection; while chest wants to fall a weigh. In this scenario, i not only find myself neutralizing a lot of effort used to fight this effect (as in chest harness), but using it's force towards goal.

Still haven't assembled and tried Tom's chest harness/traxion and pantin deal though, maybe he could run it by again?

i like keeping a friction knot minder in line. Though i set it up so that i have a 'biner attatched to saddle; that connects a strap to another 'biner that connects line/tail to system; in a chain. Most of the fime i keep both 'biners hooked together directly; with strap still folded inbetween, still connection. For extended pulls; i on hook 'biners; extend strap, while anchored by layard; though 'biners never disconnect from from strap, maintaining ; tied in status.

Though on ascents sometimes i like to have a pilot (pile-it) pulling tail of lifeline, to usher friction hitch up gently with minder; while all my energy is directed above knot into 2/1; rather than part of it being used to overcome friction in knot; to maximize effort to output ratio.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Instead of the Mini T. I use a rope man and have used a 'biner on the belly D-ring as a fair lead from ime to time. no redundancye there, I know.

 

[rahtreelimbs]

climbing hitches

I want to get opinions on the new hitches to hit the workplace.
The SWAYBISH and the DISTEL

 

[greenguy]

I have seen them but not had time to work with them. I can only use taught line or blake hitch. At work one of the guys that I train with uses a distel.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

i use the distal all the time, i make it in 3strand NE Saf.Blu HyVee and love it. i think it is better than Schwabisch. Some of these guys have eveolved beyond here to Frenchy and like. But the Distal serves me very well and simply.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Those are ok. They are really just a tautline with the tail attached to the 'binner, instead of hanging there with a backer knot.

I would encourage you to get a hunk of rope an eigth an inch smaller diameter than your climbing line(ultra tech at Sherrill), learn how to tie a double fisherman's knot and the MT or VT.
The only trick is to attach everything and test it. If it doesn't grab every time, loosen up one of the double fishermans knots and shorten the length just a little, and test it again. If it doesn't slide up effortlessly, make the rope a little longer.
Test everything low and slow. You will say to yourself, "Why didn't I do this a long time ago?"

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Most of the high performance climbing hitches are tied closed rather than open. By using a smaller diameter accessory cord and closing the hithc you'll see some real improvements in the performance over the Blake's hitch.

There are several other hitches for you to investigate. X-Man has a website with a lot of good pictures. Unfortunately, we aren't allowed to post a link on this forum. If you want the link, write to me off the forum so that I can send you the link. Maybe X-man will read this and try to post his link.

Be careful when you make the move to a high performance hitch. The cords that you'll use will have a huge effect on how the hithc slides and grabs. The difference between a 10mm and 11mm cord of the same variety will be significant sometimes. the cord needs to be smaller than your climbing rope but its generally not good practice to say that a certain size difference is the factor. Suppleness of the cord is a huge factor. Take the cord and bend a bight. You will probably find a cord with a medium stiffness will perform the best. Tenex is too soft and static line is too stiff. If those two ropes were 1 and 10 on a scale you will probably find that something around 6 will fit your needs.

Tom

 

[rbtree]

Hello David Lee Roth......


You "just a gigolo" big stud, you!

So what DO you use for Schwabisch/distal? I have one of the Sherril tenex cords, it seems ok. Plus I bought enough 3/8 to make 3 more. for $4!! It becomes 1/2 inch or so when spliced. not sure exactly how to do it to get the ends to meet in the middle, I reckon it is easy. Made a 1/2 inch 15 foot balancer, a 5/8 3-9 foot whoopie, and havent made the 3-14 foot 3/4 whoopie yet. Made a loop out of the 32 foot piece and used it for portawrap sling yestiddy, it barely made it around the maple.

What a great day it was, tearing down this huge old hollow maple, plus 3 alder. I shot a bunch of pics, sarted tearing down the alders around Dan Kraus' perch (my cinematographer!!), he set a line for me, I swung over and joined him. Ian was having fun wrecking the maple and posing! When Dan split for a new perch, I hung the camera on a branch and started whackin'. But Ian had disappeared- 26 years olds gotta eat lunch, I reckon. So I lowered the camera out, dropped the top, and rigged a swing line for the nearby alder's long laterals over the stream and second story deck. But a lower branch which was in the way needed whackin', and plates of food had miraculously appeared. (Thank you, Jerry, for having such a great daughter!) Besides, I'd have had to rig self unhooking slings, as the whole motley crew was stuffing faces. So, I made like a tree and left (or is that leave) and showed em how to do it......



.......Yummmm

..the as yet unconverted (to anything else) Vt guy......

Dodg

by the way, the TD butt shot didn't do anything for me, remember I had that view for my whole rock climbing "career".

Belay on? On belay! Climb on. clim-- Aarrgh.....


FALLING!!!

 

[Rob Murphy]

Sorry!!!
PS we use the swaybish heaps in rigging

 

[rbtree]

Hi rob, that looks like a 5 wrap Vt, tied from a real short piece of Technora? Why so short, to reduce slop? I have figured out how to self advance my Vt, using a variation of mark Adam's adjustable sliding bridge. It is sweet, but adds additional stuff to the setup, but works like a poor man's lock jack, and isnt finicky.

 

[Rob Murphy]

I think its Ultra tech cord.yeh small for less movement.This is what I do to extend,thats why the biner is reversed. It worx OK but still the friction hitch can slip...combine with pantim and the SRT gear is only for REALLY big stuff.

 

[rahtreelimbs]

schwabisch vs. distal

The only difference between the schwabisch and the distal is only that the bottom wrap is in the opposite direction. How much difference does this really make? Now I see that the X-MAN has different styles of the distal on his site. If anyone has tried these different variations of the distal let me know if they are better than the basic version.