Swing Booms on regular skidders???

[380LGR]

Ohhhh its not going to cost much just lots and lots of time.....

 

[Slamm]

The reason for the small heads on the swing booms is so you cant over load them in a turn. It cant hold the hitch behind you.

?? Okay, but its only 12" smaller than the 84" head on the single action grapple that I currently use and that head works just fine on trees up to 60" in diameter so why do I need to drag around a 110" head?? I don't.

I don't pull out pulp tree bundles with the 540B's, where you need the super large grapple heads, I pull out trees/logs that are usually no smaller than 20" DBH .......... of course that might change, LOL, the next job has an estimated 6000+ tons of pulp and I'm working on getting a machine cutter in for that, but I'm not sure if I'm going to skid the bundles/hitches or if a 548 is going to.

Sam

 

[380LGR]

I never under stood the bunching with a cable skidder to a grapple...

 

[Slamm]

Ohhhh its not going to cost much just lots and lots of time.....

It won't take much more time than just installing a single action boom on this cable machine, acually in some ways it will be easier, due to the design of the base. One week of shop time, and some "brain" time designing the hydraulic system and Terry is working on that with slick Joystick controls for everything.

Compared to some of the machines and systems that I have designed and built as a tool and die maker, this is just a fun project, pimping out a skidder, LOL.

Sam

 

[Slamm]

I never under stood the bunching with a cable skidder to a grapple...

On steep hills, the cable machine can pull the trees up to the skidder trail where the grapple driver can quickly and easily grab them and run. Additionally it allows you to take a less skilled operator and make them very profitable in the grapple machine due to the lack of side hill operation.

Sam

 

[Slamm]

Dont get me wrong im a sucker for a headache myself.. Why are you using a swing boom just to get away from the cable skidder?

To answer that question better, I am not trying to get completely away from the cable, I can just see that I have 1+ million bdft to pull in the coming months and very little of it is on what anyone would call a hill, LOL.

So instead of selling my 540B cable skidder and/or buying another machine to replace it, and really I don't want to let this great 540B go, it is very tight and fast steering with large steering rams and bigger steering valve than most newer skidders.

For a total cost of less than $4,000 (including travel to get it) I can put this swing boom on it and get a very flexible machine that will, also be able to very nicely place hitchs together for my grapple skidders due to the swinging action of the boom.

Sam

 

[056kid]

I never under stood the bunching with a cable skidder to a grapple...

it saves alot of time when the ground is steep and the skids are long.

 

[Slamm]

I never under stood the bunching with a cable skidder to a grapple...

When I mean bunching I am only talking about two or three trees, not pulp sized stuff.

The 540B can only really pull about 800-1000bdft within reason. We get that in one or two trees at times. So if I get one big tree it sits by itself. If I get two 400 bdft trees I "bunch" them together, LOL. If I get three 250 bdft trees I lay them together for the grapple, again, I haven't had the best grapple operators all the time. Karen (my wife is pretty good) but some of the help just sucks. I run the cable machine and use my knowledge and experience of the machines and operator's skill to put together hitchs that can get pulled out without much thought, LOL.

With this method I don't have rookies driving my grapple skidder off some hill, only to flip it or something. With this method I can take a rookie operator and he can pull just as much wood as a skilled operator could, because I have made the job very easy, so that the difference between the two skill sets is really meaniless.

As I see the operator gain skill and courage, I can leave some easier sidehill trees for them to get and in doing so I keep the production up, by taking up the slack myself.

Sam

 

[hammerlogging]

it saves alot of time when the ground is steep and the skids are long.

Bingo.

Accumulating a reasonable turn takes a lot of time. Dozers bunching for grapple skidders is really common too. We do it with jammers. Little machines accumulate a large turn for a big ol' grapple skidder. yes, it could be a forwarder instead. 2 or more cable machines might feed one grapple skidder, depending on skid distance.

I think the swing boom will not be regretted, even if you're not dealing with steep ground. Especially for what its going to cost you.

 

[Oldtimer]

When I said mechanical leverage, I was meaning when the boom was fully "retracted" with a big tree on...you go around a corner and the boom is so high up that it can tip the skidder where it never would have if it was a cable dragging it.
I guess I mean a much higher center of gravity. That's the biggest issue I see with one.

And I am glad to see a 540 owner say his machine takes 800-1000' at a time "reasonably". I know guys who try to take double that. And they do, but they break sh!t all the time too.

I have my eye on a 748 G-II D/A with winch, heat and AC both work, chains all around, and a new engine and tranny....$45K.. If it's still there in 3 months, I'll try for it. Need to pay off the F550 first.

 

[Slamm]

Bingo.

Accumulating a reasonable turn takes a lot of time. Dozers bunching for grapple skidders is really common too. We do it with jammers. Little machines accumulate a large turn for a big ol' grapple skidder. yes, it could be a forwarder instead. 2 or more cable machines might feed one grapple skidder, depending on skid distance.

Yes, Hammer, that is exactly the reasons for the cable machine, in the hills that is.

I think the swing boom will not be regretted, even if you're not dealing with steep ground. Especially for what its going to cost you

Well, that is what I am thinking. I called Esco and they said the things were $55,000 brand new, so I don't think I got screwed, when I paid $2,000 for it. The pins are good and the missing grapple cylinder is in the back of my truck ......... so it isn't missing. All I have to do is unbolt the Cable Arch from the 540B and plasma cut the swing boom's tower off and fab some 1" mounting plates for the swing boom and bolt it onto the back.

We have some different ideas for the joystick or button controls or lever controls whichever we decide to go with. I don't really like the lever control, as they aren't as quick as joystick. There are 5 functions on the swing boom so I'm going to get 6 function controls and put the front blade onto it and then I will have everything at my fingertips, and not spread out all over.

Worse case scenario its only as good as a regular grapple and best case scenario it is very handy for grabbing logs around trees and over stumps and down in ditches/slopes, staging logs with perfect placement, you can also use the longer stinger/boom to push the skidder when it starts to get stuck like you do with a single function grapple, but this one can really push the skidder through stuff and for longer distances.

I think it will be very handy.

Sam

 

[Slamm]

When I said mechanical leverage, I was meaning when the boom was fully "retracted" with a big tree on...you go around a corner and the boom is so high up that it can tip the skidder where it never would have if it was a cable dragging it.
I guess I mean a much higher center of gravity. That's the biggest issue I see with one.

And I am glad to see a 540 owner say his machine takes 800-1000' at a time "reasonably". I know guys who try to take double that. And they do, but they break sh!t all the time too.

I have my eye on a 748 G-II D/A with winch, heat and AC both work, chains all around, and a new engine and tranny....$45K.. If it's still there in 3 months, I'll try for it. Need to pay off the F550 first.

That is a misconception about this system. Once the log is in the "traveling position" there isn't any differences in the load forces between a cable or single action grapple, because that is based on the log's placement not what is holding it, provided all systems are designed to hold the log in the same position, which is right behind the axle and slightly up.

And I am glad to see a 540 owner say his machine takes 800-1000' at a time "reasonably". I know guys who try to take double that. And they do, but they break sh!t all the time too.

Yeah, you can pull more but it is hard on them, but there becomes a real compromise between speed and the amount being pulled, as in the little 100 hp 4 cylinders are only going to do it in 1-2 gear period. That is why I'm going to put 150+ engines in them, not so that I can pull bigger trees per say, but that I can pull the same loads in higher gears and hold the higher gears through the hills without shifting.

The bigger engines give me a lot more weight up front where I need it, yet I'm not carrying around the extra 6,000-15,000 pounds of the much larger, clumsy machines. Everything can handle the extra power except for the rear axle. We are going to reset the axle gear clearances and see how long it takes before we break it, LOL. If it ever becomes a problem, I know where some cheap 648 axles are that I can either narrow or cut the centers out of the wheels and reweld them out farther, again well see, might not ever be a problem.

Sam

 

[056kid]

I dont know about that, going around turns with trees on the road to help timber stay in the road with a grapple holding a tree just above the ground is ALOT different than going around it with the grapple let down, dragging the tree. They will turn over fast if you let too much side force go on the grapple, it has nothing to do with the log but everything to do with the position of the grapple arch and where its load is coming from. Same physics go for a cable skidder, just not as exaggerated. .
IMO

 

[Slamm]

I dont know about that, going around turns with trees on the road to help timber stay in the road with a grapple holding a tree just above the ground is ALOT different than going around it with the grapple let down, dragging the tree. They will turn over fast if you let too much side force go on the grapple, it has nothing to do with the log but everything to do with the position of the grapple arch and where its load is coming from. Same physics go for a cable skidder, just not as exaggerated. .
IMO

??? Your point is not what he was talking about??

Are you saying that the swing boom can't put the butt of the tree in the exact same position as any other carrying system??

Or are you just trying to explain something to others, that we already know???

I will explain again, regardless of the carrying system, cable, swing boom or single/dual grapple. There isn't any difference to the skidder and the center of gravity ONCE the butt of the log is up in the proper carrying position, up and back of the rear axle, BETWEEN the three systems.

Between all three systems if a log it is too high for a turn, it is too high, the skidder will flip regardless of what system is holding it in the wrong position. One great advantage I see in the swing boom is I can manipulate the center of gravity to the opposite side of the pull to put the skidder back down, no other system can do this.

Sam

 

[056kid]

??? Your point is not what he was talking about??

Are you saying that the swing boom can't put the butt of the tree in the exact same position as any other carrying system??

Or are you just trying to explain something to others, that we already know???

I will explain again, regardless of the carrying system, cable, swing boom or single/dual grapple. There isn't any difference to the skidder and the center of gravity ONCE the butt of the log is up in the proper carrying position, up and back of the rear axle, BETWEEN the three systems.

Between all three systems if a log it is too high for a turn, it is too high, the skidder will flip regardless of what system is holding it in the wrong position. One great advantage I see in the swing boom is I can manipulate the center of gravity to the opposite side of the pull to put the skidder back down, no other system can do this.

Sam

Im saying that that boom grapple is alot more likely to tip your machine than you think. Hows that? There is a difference in my experiences.

 

[Slamm]

Im saying that that boom grapple is alot more likely to tip your machine than you think. Hows that? There is a difference in my experiences.

Like I said, it is a miss conception that the boom grapple will flip your machine over any more than any other carry system, PROVIDED they all are holding the butt of the log in a similar height and distance from the back axle. Additionally, if there is a repeating problem with a particular "corner" then the swing boom could be moved over to off balance the skidder/load and this is a great advantage to other traditional systems.

Sam

 

[056kid]

the ability to counter the forces with the swing boom introduces a big advantage for sure!!

But I discredit the "misconseption" I ran a TJ380 with a winch and a TJ450 with a winch and a single arch grapple the most along with a cat here and there. the grapple skidder behaived alot differently than the cable skidder. if you want to go around a turn with the grapple where you risk turning over, you have to lay it down or choke up on the tree which is for extremes. to avoid turning over. The cable skidder you track until she rises and hit the lever, but you can for sure do more in means of lateral force with a cable skidder imo..

 

[380LGR]

I think you better do some math.. Your tub on your 540 is going to be nowhere long enough for the swing boom!! Its going to be sitting to close to the rear of the machine.

 

[hammerlogging]

Oh yeah, wiggle waggling. I haven't worked for a wiggle waggle crew for a LONG time. Main extraction routes are ####in highways. Staight, lowest grade possible, wood moves steady all day every day, except in the wettest of weather.

I think dude will be fine with his boom. Yes, there will be adaptations to be made, and sacrifices, but it doesn't sound like even a mistake would be too consequential with a healthy equipment spread and the ability to do all this fab work himself. I still say go for it.

Uh oh, sounds like a productivity study in the making.....

I'd rather cut timber than collect and punch data. Guess I'm not patient enough. And addicted to the faller's dance.

 

[tlandrum]

i think the world may be coming to an end,i seen slamm mention pulp, surely you were kidding and are not going to move that no money making pulp. you may make a logger yet lol