Synthetic in small engine

[yooperman]

What are the pro's/cons of using synthetic in small engines? like 8hp splitter motors.

 

[Bowtie]

Pro would be good lube qualities, cleaner engine...Con would be price.

 

[gtstang462002]

Pro would be good lube qualities, cleaner engine...Con would be price.

That about sums it up. However if you have a small oil leak with real oil it becomes a large oil leak with synthetic.

 

[eric_271]

I called kohler and talked with one of their engine tech's and he recomended a 40 hour break in period be for switching over to full synthetic. Kohler highly recomends synthetic at least on their 27hp engines. I still change mine out about every 25 to 30 hours.

 

[gtstang462002]

Even where using the oil when recommended by the manufacturer, it still is a pricy oil change. I work for the local ford dealer, we had on of the new shelby's come in for an oil change, 6qts of 0W50 full synthetic, 74.99. What a deal.

 

[Bowtie]

Even where using the oil when recommended by the manufacturer, it still is a pricy oil change. I work for the local ford dealer, we had on of the new shelby's come in for an oil change, 6qts of 0W50 full synthetic, 74.99. What a deal.

Well, one thing about using synthetic oil they claim on vehicles is that you can do a longer interval between changes. Depending on the syn oil used, it can actually be cheaper if you believe the recomendations. Just wanted to add that, research it.

 

[gtstang462002]

Well, one thing about using synthetic oil they claim on vehicles is that you can do a longer interval between changes. Depending on the syn oil used, it can actually be cheaper if you believe the recomendations. Just wanted to add that, research it.

If you go to the AMSoil website they state that. Though they still recommend changing your filter on schedule and adding the little extra to top it back off. The manufacturers however do not endorse this. (At least ford and chevy dont, worked for both)

 

[Bowtie]

Good Info. I wasnt sure about the engine manufacturers. I was just thinking about the oil manufacturer.

 

[cabinman]

Good Info. I wasnt sure about the engine manufacturers. I was just thinking about the oil The local small engine guy says,. NO syntetic oil in your single,.. or twin cylinder toys, And I think he meant work tools, 2, I and others, think He is the best in michigan..

 

[chowdozer]

What are the pro's/cons of using synthetic in small engines? like 8hp splitter motors.

I run it in all my engines. Generator, mower, riding mower, etc. It is more expensive, but Mobil 1 is at Wal-Mart for less than $25/gallon. It's an extra level of protection in lubrication and thermal breakdown and it's worth it to me. Your mileage may vary.

 

[goblin]

The new Briggs and Stratton single cylinder engines are sold with full synthetic oil, and its recommended in the engine's documentation as the best choice for all operating temperature ranges.

 

[MATTYB11]

I put synthetic in my splitter which has a 5.5hp Honda after the first 20 hours of use. no ill effects after another 10-12 hours of use. if i remember correctly the motor takes less than a quart of oil so i figured the extra dollar or two was worth the added protection.

matt

 

[gtstang462002]

I typically run the cheapest thing that the manufacturer recommends. I have always found the store brand oils at the local parts stores to be cleaner than the name brand oils at half the cost(conventional oils). My 1957 john deere has been running straight 30W non-detergent for 50 years now. It gets one oil change a year though it should be twice a year. I also have a 1942 farmall that has had one overhaul in its lifetime that has always run the same oil. These tractors have always been worked hard and put away wet. I pay 57cents a quart for this oil and have not had a problem out of it. Making it in my mind much more cost effective than any synthetic crap that comes along claiming that they are better at 6.25 a quart for a whole bunch of addatives that have not been in my oils for over 50 years.

 

[kah68]

Another opinion poll , fact is that better lube does perform better than conventional lube, the burning question is do you really need it? Most home owners will not put enough hours on an engine to realize the benefit of a higher grade lube. Most blowers, gen sets ect are designed to run mineral oils, some newer motors may require a version of Syn. Regular maint. is more important than higher grades of lube, but using a higher grade is fine and I also agree for the little bit most of us use it's worth the 'comfort feeling' of knowing a better grade is being used even if good ol' mineral does the job well. One thing, most Syn. oils are not 100% Syn. most are blends, so even though you are running 'Syn.' you are still running a mix of Min.

 

[Frank Boyer]

Newer LE oil

Use the old non LE oil and not the newest stuff. LE oil must be used in 2008's.

“BACKWARD COMPATIBILITY” IN NEW ENGINE OILS ?
Published and Distributed by:
DF Sales & Marketing

Editorial
DANGER—DANGER—DANGER
MUST READ COMPLETELY !

Now that I have your attention, please bear with me…...This may seem to be redundant, but anything worth repeating, is worth repeating twice as the old saying goes.
This newsletter is going to cover a recently discovered subject matter of the very most importance to everyone who owns vehicles of any kind, be it, automotive, trucking, construction equipment, etc. The results are in with very dismaying reports concerning the newest API engine oil specifications, SM / CJ-4.
To put it very bluntly and to the point, the newest specifications for both gas and diesel have not been satisfactory for use in engines prior to 2007.
In the past, when engine oils changed formulation to meet the most up-to-date specs, those formulas proved to be what is known in the industry as “backward compatible.” This simply means that the year in which the oil met the new specs and took effect for the new rating, it was perfectly alright for use in older vehicles. To my knowledge, at least over the past 22 years, there has never been a problem with oil meeting backward compatible status.
The latest API specification, SM/CJ-4 does not seem to be working out to be backward compatible, even though we have been given assurances that it would be. In a nutshell, this very well may cost the owners millions upon millions of dollars due to premature wear in both gasoline and diesel engines.
The following will show you why the concern:
GASOLINE SERVICE RATING “SM”
The newest gasoline engine oil service classification is API: “SM.” One of the primary reasons why the EPA wanted to introduce this requirement was the concern that for engines which burned a little oil, the ZDDP (zincdialkylditiophosphate), was poisoning catalytic converters.
The major automotive manufacturers at first stated that there was no bona fide data to confirm this theory, and even today, it is still debatable. The government calls for catalytic converters to have a minimum useful life of 120,000 miles, most catalytic converters have far surpassed that mileage in use without having an abnormal amount of failures due to the so-called “poisoning.”
ZDDP is the major anti-wear additive in engine oil, it has been used for decades, it is relatively inexpensive, yet very effective. With the lowering of ZDDP in some oils, almost nothing in some other oils due to “additive drop-out conditions” (primarily in semi-synthetic and some synthetic oils), a devastating effect has occurred.
The first casualties of low-to-no ZDDP took place in high-performance gasoline and methanol fueled engines. One case which I know of “flattened” three camshafts within a two-month period in a race car situation.
Excessive valve train wear has also been experienced with this oil.
Independent engine builders recognized the problem almost immediately and started recommending to the industries they serve to use a “high-quality” oil with zinc in it for anti-wear protection.
Most all of the majors, including those who produce private label engine oil for companies, such as for auto parts stores have changed their formulations to meet SM. You will see it on the shelves at the stores, and from the oil jobbers.
DIESEL SERVICE RATING “CJ-4”
The newest diesel engine oil service classification is API: “CJ-4,” sometimes just referred to as “CJ.” The major cause of change for this rating was to meet the 2007 Low-Emission Diesel Engines specifications. The concern once again was due to exhaust emissions. It had been determined that on engines using a DPF (diesel particulate filter), it would be plugged up by the heavy metals in the additive package of the engine oils which were graded up to CI-4 plus. The newer diesel emissions systems can reach temperatures as high as 1,600º F.
Heavy metal additives destroy the system. Therefore any engine oil prior to CJ- 4 which is not formulated for these engines should not be used.
According to the new specs for CJ-4, the oil must contain lower levels of ZDDP, Calcium and Phosphorous, it must also not have a TBN any higher than 9. TBN is a measure of the oil’s alkaline reserve, which is used for fighting off the damaging effects of acid.
Diesel oils which are formulated for “Low-Emission Engines” when used in pre-2007 engines has been reported as having premature bearing wear in as little as 10,000 miles. First showing up on the Ford Power Stroke series 6.0 & 7.3 liter, GM’s Duramax, and Dodge / Cummins 5.9 liter engines. Commercial truck and heavy equipment application reports have not yet come in, but if the precursor is any indication, it doesn’t look good.
Furthermore, if any type of oil additive is used to help the friction modification of these oils, including molybdenum disulfide , they will also poison the system in diesel applications.
THE BAD NEWS IS:
Hopefully, you will realize the gravity of this situation. If you are involved in the servicing of pre 2007 automobiles, trucks or other equipment, you should continue to use engine oil which is NOT rated “SM/ CJ-4.” More than likely it can be the cause of premature wear in those pre- 2007 engines. Actually, as far as engine wear is concerned, it could in fact also cause more wear in the 2007 engines as well, but you increase the possibility of catalytic converter problems when the engine gets to the point in which it starts using a little oil if you use a pre– SM grade. Personally, I would think this to be minimal, and would rather replace a catalytic converter than an engine.
Many engine builders when first realizing the problem with wear in low ZDDP oils started recommending the use of a “good diesel oil” in gasoline engines. This recommendation cannot be given any longer unless the diesel specification is CI-4 or previous, and has a full additive package. If the oil is rated SM/CJ, you donot have a full additive package for the older engines. Generally if you see an oil with a label stating “For Low-Emission Engines”, it will NOT have a full additive package which gives the full protection needed for older engines.
You have now heard the bad news about engine oil, as the old saying goes “A word to the wise is sufficient.”
THE GOOD NEWS IS:
A completely unprecedented decision concerning new engine oil specifications by Southwestern Petroleum Corporation with their SWEPCO brand 306 Supreme Formula Engine Oil has been made. Usually in the past when a specification rating went into effect, they have been right in there with the new specs and introduced any changes in formulation into the product when it was time to do so. However, in this case, when the specs went into effect last October, they had held back on re-formulating to meet them.
I am very pleased to inform our valued customers and prospects that we will continue to provide swepco 306 Supreme Formula Engine Oil with a full-bodied additive package, rated at SL/CI-4 Plus formula in the following weights: 10W30, 15W40 and 20W50. For engines requiring 5W30, it is rated SJ/CI-4. The TBN on
this oil is 10.3, vs. the newer 9.0 max for diesel. The detergent, dispersant and antiwear (zinc) levels are still higher than most other oils on the market rated SL/ CI-4.
SWEPCO is not going to introduce a SM/CJ product into the market until more testing has been completed and they are able to supply an oil which will surpass the needs of the specification without sacrificing the protection you have come to rely on with SWEPCO lubricants.
In any case, it will not be a reformulated “306” oil. The 306 will remain an SL/CI-4 for pre-2007 engines. ~~~~~~.
Ford Recalls Super Duty Trucks
Ford Motor Company is voluntarily recalling 37,400 Super Duty pickups, part of the automaker’s top-selling F-Series, after dealers reported flames coming from the trucks’ tailpipes. Bloomberg News reported.
The recall covers 2008-model Super Duty trucks with 6.4-liter diesel engines built by Navistar International Corp., according to Ford spokesman Dan Jarvis. About 8,400 of the trucks were sold, and 29,000 more remain on dealer lots.
Dealers won’t be able to sell the trucks until the pickups get a computer software update, and owners of recalled vehicles will bring them to dealerships for upgrades to be paid for my Ford, Jarvis said.
Ford received reports from dealers in Texas and Canada about tailpipe flames, Bloomberg said. The Texas incident caused a small grass fire.
Chrysler Recalls 86,000 Ram Trucks
Chrysler is recalling some 2006 Dodge Ram pickup trucks because their front wheel bearings may not have enough grease. The action includes as many as 86,333 of the pickups built between Nov. 7, 2005 and April 27,2006, the company told the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. The problem can causenoise and vibration that if not addressed could lead to a loss of control and a crash.
The recall effects Chrysler’s biggestselling model in the U.S. Dodge Ram pickups accounted for 364,177, or 17% of the 2.14 million cars and trucks they sold last year, Bloomberg said.




Article Date: Nov 27, 2007
Car Accociations: MINI,NEW_MINI
Hits: 179

 

[gtstang462002]

The new oil requirments for the diesel engines is all a result of the new USLD fuel that has 50ppm of sulfer vs. last years fuel that had 500ppm if sulfer. The problem right now is that there is still some of the 500ppm fuel remaining which breaks the new oil down faster. Hence if you are still running the old fuel you now need to do oil changes twice as often.

Now on the other side of the coin the new USLD fuel has about 104,000BTU per gallon VS 140,000 BTU per gallon of the old fuel. This means fuel economy is dropping off because it takes more fuel to generate the same power . Once they get all of the old fuels Purged there will not be a backwards compatability issue, but until then...

 

[Frank Boyer]

The LE oil had the anti wear additeves reduced. The reason was to get another 25k out of the catalytic converters. The problem is that all of the old flat tappet engines are going to start having excessive cam and lifter wear. Higher valve spring pressure roller tappet engines will have the same problem!

 

[goblin]

I see an emerging market for 3rd party oil additives such as STP Oil Treatment. It seems that you can no longer trust the oil, gas, and diesel refiners/retailers to have your engine's best interests at heart.

 

[Frank Boyer]

I ust picked up 100 gallons of the old CI spec oil. That will last me a couple of years till this gets sorted out. The 15 ppm diesel is required for the 2008 diesels. Do not run old or farm fuel in the 2008 engines.

 

[kah68]

i Believe in them, I run them in my engines and gear boxes, what sold me was changing over an old gear box that ran hot enough you couldn't touch it and we had to rebuild it every 10-16 months. After the switch to Syn. you can leave you hand on the gear box and it's been running for over 4 years and no failures yet.