Taking your first saw apart

[farmerdoug]

I never did develop the interest in small engine mechanics as a child, but am very interested in being able to work on small engines. Many people on this forum seem to really enjoy taking these saws apart, fixing/modding them and putting them back together. What is your story in how you got started?

My first small engine project was a lawn mower when I was a little kid. Once we would get the mower started, then it wouldn't turn off with the exception of running it out of gas. My brothers and I would set aside a pile of dirt to drop the mower on so that the mower would shut off after we were done mowing.

On several occasions the mower kicked out massive volumes of white smoke. I didn't know at the time about the oil draining when you would turn over the mower.

Finally the mower died. I took it upon myself to take it apart and fix it. I conveniently had parts left over when I was done and obviously the mower was recycled. I never really attempted working on a small engine after this. I always remembered all those parts I had laying around when I was working on the mower. I even had the starter coil taken apart :msp_wink:

Questions:

• If you take a saw apart, how do you remember what goes where when you put it back together?
• On a chainsaw specifically, do you use some type of torq wrench on any of the saw, or do you tighten the saw down just by feel?
• How was the process in getting your boys to learn about small engines?

I am really not asking these questions for my sake, but for the sake of my boys. The problem is that I am the father and need to figure out how to train them. Thank you for your input.
View attachment 268392

 

[tpope]

Photographic memory helps. When mine is not working, I take pictures and put on tape labels that tell me the order things go back on. Also make notes in general. Like an arrow drawn on a part means that it installs with the arrow up. I'll use small zip lock bags for the fasteners. Put the bag with the part that you just removed. Such as 4 screws in a bag taped to the starter cover.

 

[old-cat]

If you have a parts manual or parts diagram you don't have to remember. When tightening fasteners you have to LEARN how tight by using a torque wrench. With enough use you begin to "feel" how tight to get things. Putting jig saw puzzles together is a good way to learn engine assembly, believe it or not. When I rebuild engines I take every single piece and throw them in a bucket or box. When I reassemble I don't miss a single part or misplace a single fastener.

 

[7sleeper]

Since we can see that they have begun using a Fiskars the training has begun at a high level!
I take a camera and make pictures out of every different angle I can think of (usually without flash!). And then proceed. When I forget I try being a wonderful role model and start yelling and screaming and cursing before sitting down again and figuring it out. I mean these are only chainsaws not the space shuttle!:hmm3grin2orange:

7

 

[Rokon]

Kids learn by investigation. Everything is new, and they have a better memory than us older folks.

Let your kids take things apart. Preferably something broken, so they can figure out how stuff works.

Also teach them to put all the loose parts in one place, like a box, for the 'put it back together' phase. (I'm still trying to remember that one. :bang

 

[djones]

The first thing I remember taking apart was a Hopalong Cassidy pistol and I was upset when I couldn't get it back together and working, from that point on I remember to look closely at a project before digging into it so to remember how it looked when it was working and then removing each piece carefully and noting how it functioned and how it was installed. After 60 years I've finally figured it out, read the manual and pay attention to the IPL. If you don't have one for whatever you're working on, ask someone who knows, don't be afraid to ask questions on sites like this one or others pertaining to what you're working on. I've been a mechanic, gas and diesel, for over 45 years and I've worked on 2 strokes for the past 26 years, I can't and don't even try to remember all the different pieces of equipment I've worked on so it's important to know your limitations and know where to find the help you need to finish a project. Teach that to your kids and that will start them down the road to be qualified DIYers. The internet holds a wealth of technical information that is yours for the browsing, use it.

 

[bafarm]

Just let them go at an old motor and play with it

My boys are 8 & 10.

Each one has taken Poulan XXV saws from (case / Cyl together) to complete saws when they were 5 or 6. The older one took apart one of my old laptops a few weeks ago. Keyboard, motherboard, hard drive, memory out on the kitchen table. He put it back together and was using it 20 minutes later, it still works fine.
I'm scrapping an Escort motor. I gave them a magnet and 2 barrels ( Aluminum is worth more here). It was down to the bare block in a few hours and they named the parts ( Pistons, Crank, Cam....).

They both have 70 Chevelle's that will need everything from body work to drivetrains, once they finish them, I think they will have more pride then the 16 yo that gets a shiny new sports car for there birthday and wreaks it with in a year.
( PS I bought a 70 SS for 1,500 when I was 18 and I still have it. They are not getting mine till after I'm gone LOL).

Don

 

[Chris-PA]

Unfortunately to learn how to take things apart, fix them and put them back together usually requires failing in several of the steps - as in taking things apart and ruining them, but that does not mean there is no learning going on. Experience is what we get doing things we are not qualified to do. Your kids will need opportunity to wreck some stuff, and so will you. Naturally one is free to learn from others and skip a few steps when possible!

Good advice upthread. One of the most important things is to cultivate patience. Losing your temper and getting mad has no effect on inanimate objects, only on you. It only costs you and solves nothing. Also, it is often temping to skip a step so as to save time, and I have seen people spend far more time trying to avoid taking off one more part than it would have taken to just do it properly.

 

[nstueve]

As I take thing apart I usually just screw the hardware back into the place they came from. No mistaking what went where. If you have any problems past that you can always look at an IPL. after a while you'll just remember where stuff goes on certain saws you see a lot of...

Getting fustrated happens but it usually helps to have the correct tools for the job to make the task at hand easier and more enjoyable... There aren't a ton of specialty tools for saws beyond a vac tester, compression guage, spark tester, T27, digital tach to tune, and maybe a flywheel puller. I usually end up making tools I need with the tools I have. Takes longer but the next time you have to do the operation it will take less time and your home made tool was probably cheaper and better built than store bought... point in case my adjustable flywheel puller i welded up myself...

 

[Overtrained]

If im going to take something apart and put it back together right away I usually remember where everything goes. If its a long term project it helps to snap a few pics during the disassembly of the saw. IPL's are great to answer "location" questions as well. When all else fails you just ask questions here on AS.

As far as torque goes I go by "feel" most of the time. Tight is tight and to tight is broken, live by this and you will never have a issue. Good luck

 

[TreeTangler]

One thing I recommend, try not to take it apart if you dont have the funds to replace the broken/worn parts. Nothing is harder to do than put something back together after waiting months, especially if you have little experience. If a part is going to take a few weeks to get, it may be worth taking 10-20 minutes and put the majority of the saw back together so it's fresh when you take it apart again.

 

[farmerdoug]

Thank you for the advice

This is very helpful. Thank you for listing some of the basic tools for saws.

It appears that "close enough" is not an acceptable approach when working on saws.

Thank you.

 

[mitch95100]

zip lock bags...

 

[zogger]

I never did develop the interest in small engine mechanics as a child, but am very interested in being able to work on small engines. Many people on this forum seem to really enjoy taking these saws apart, fixing/modding them and putting them back together. What is your story in how you got started?

My first small engine project was a lawn mower when I was a little kid. Once we would get the mower started, then it wouldn't turn off with the exception of running it out of gas. My brothers and I would set aside a pile of dirt to drop the mower on so that the mower would shut off after we were done mowing.

On several occasions the mower kicked out massive volumes of white smoke. I didn't know at the time about the oil draining when you would turn over the mower.

Finally the mower died. I took it upon myself to take it apart and fix it. I conveniently had parts left over when I was done and obviously the mower was recycled. I never really attempted working on a small engine after this. I always remembered all those parts I had laying around when I was working on the mower. I even had the starter coil taken apart :msp_wink:

Questions:

• If you take a saw apart, how do you remember what goes where when you put it back together?
• On a chainsaw specifically, do you use some type of torq wrench on any of the saw, or do you tighten the saw down just by feel?
• How was the process in getting your boys to learn about small engines?

I am really not asking these questions for my sake, but for the sake of my boys. The problem is that I am the father and need to figure out how to train them. Thank you for your input.
View attachment 268392

Do it in stages and clean as you go. Do it over and over. Start with the covers, clean, replace. Take em off again, this time maybe pull the clutch with the rope trick.

And so on, right to getting into the case. If the saw isnt broken, you might not have to go that ar. Developing the muscle mmemory and really looking at the parts and screws and whatnot helps.

I have a few tricks, heres one with screws. Take some flat scrap cardboard, draw out the shape of the area you are working on, punch a nail hole through where each screw comes from, stick it into the cardboard for a reference.

Lay parts out in order as you take them off, farthest away is first off, work your way back. Assembly is reverse on what you have laid out then. Place parts so that when you grab them, that is the way they go back on, no lipping or decideing which way up a gasket goes or a wassher with a bevel to it, etc. especially good for carb work, wether or not you are installing new gaskets or just cleaning and reusing the old ones. Also note ule line routing, take notes, take pictures.

the absolute worst way to strip a new to you anything is willy nilly tear everything apart and slop all the parts at random onto the bench or into a can.

You can also take pics and refer to them later, at each stage of dissasembly. You can also bag up and tag parts and write a description what they are and where they go (ex: case screw, flywheel side, top right) this is good for putting away a project saw until you can scrape up the parts you need.

CLEAN AS YOU GO starting at the outside complete unit, and each step of the way before removing, as much as possible.

Dont cobjob cheap tools, dont try to make some huge screwdriver work, or too small of one, etc. Just get the right tool, or carefully make one, something that is well thought out and built.

 

[phillipmc]

First engine I ever took apart was an old push mower engine. It was worn out already so my great grand father handed me a bucket of tools and the engine and told me to have at it. Well only tool i used out of that bucket was the Hammer. :msp_unsure: and found a cinder block in the yard. But I did learn a bit as I just didnt swing wildly on it. Next time i actually used the tools and had much better results. Keep in mind this was all when i was about 5. Once i turned 10 I could rip down an engine and put it back together in about 30 min. Then got to the point where people would bring me engines in parts in a bucket and I would have it running on the bench in about 30 min. Collect my $75 and both would be happy.

 

[poorboypaul]

One thing I recommend, try not to take it apart if you dont have the funds to replace the broken/worn parts. Nothing is harder to do than put something back together after waiting months, especially if you have little experience. If a part is going to take a few weeks to get, it may be worth taking 10-20 minutes and put the majority of the saw back together so it's fresh when you take it apart again.

We're not related ,are we? My BIGGEST problem is tearing things apart and not getting back to them for months! Rebuilt the motor in my Farmall cub, can tear a dirt bike motor and tranny apart, and put it right back together. Been piddling around with chainsaws for a little while, green and learning. Got a cs-400 been tinkering with rebuilding. In my opinion, primer bulb saws are a PITA!!! Had to go online and find the fuel line routing diagram, and still didn't have them right! If I would have marked them, would have had this running a long while ago. Today I found the 2 lines from my fuel tank were on backwards. Wrong one to the bulb, other to the carb. Finally got this thing running. Have had this saw for two years rebuilding it because I do a little, then it sets ,, mostly all summer cause work and farming takes up too much time. But, I'm learning. I'm better at hands on than looking in a book. Getting an 064 put back together. MUCH simpler without having to route fuel lines everywhere. Just waiting for the e-clips I bought because I've had this saw torn apart for 1 1/2 yrs because I get side-tracked, and some of the little parts have disappeared. Just don't have a warm place to work on them during the winter, except for my dad's greenhouse. I'm separated from the wife, so I do bring one in to the kitchen to play with once in a while, without getting in trouble.

 

[Fish]

Just let them go at an old motor and play with it

My boys are 8 & 10.

Each one has taken Poulan XXV saws from (case / Cyl together) to complete saws when they were 5 or 6. The older one took apart one of my old laptops a few weeks ago. Keyboard, motherboard, hard drive, memory out on the kitchen table. He put it back together and was using it 20 minutes later, it still works fine.
I'm scrapping an Escort motor. I gave them a magnet and 2 barrels ( Aluminum is worth more here). It was down to the bare block in a few hours and they named the parts ( Pistons, Crank, Cam....).

They both have 70 Chevelle's that will need everything from body work to drivetrains, once they finish them, I think they will have more pride then the 16 yo that gets a shiny new sports car for there birthday and wreaks it with in a year.
( PS I bought a 70 SS for 1,500 when I was 18 and I still have it. They are not getting mine till after I'm gone LOL).

Don

Is the Escort motor on the kitchen table too??? My wife gives me hell if I pack up my e-bay
shipments on the table.......


No seriously, you kids have it made these days. Just take a few dozen pics as you go and store them on your computer, would have loved to have that option in the early 1980's.

I did this the last few rear wheel brake jobs, helped a lot!!!!

 

[boca joe]

The first thing I remember taking apart was a Hopalong Cassidy pistol and I was upset when I couldn't get it back together and working, from that point on I remember to look closely at a project before digging into it so to remember how it looked when it was working and then removing each piece carefully and noting how it functioned and how it was installed. After 60 years I've finally figured it out,

Me too, finally. You're the reason Hoppy went off the air. His gun quit shootin' and everybody quit watchin' 'cause you messed up his iron. Hope you were man enough to apologize for what you did. LOL.

 

[hoeyrd2110]

i got a big old briggs 10 hp(i mean old school HUGE 60's era) started that had been sitting on the side of the shed with a buddy when i was 7. i still to this day have never seen my father move that quick. he came out of the house and i got an earful...then he asked me how i did it. ever since then i've ruined numerous pieces of equip on my way to where i'm at. first saw i ever did was a eager beaver with a shoddy coil. took me a year by myself no help, my dad wanted me to learn. then i gave it away haha with a broken flywheel oopps. find a whole stash of plastic poulans and have at it you really can't loose you might even wind up with a nice little trail/quad saw out of the bunch of pieces:msp_thumbup: