Thanks Georgia Power

[kkesler]

Take a look at this. The trees were already 5-10 feet away from the lines, and now I have a big crescent moon made from my trees. Should I at least call and complain?

Others.
http://www.keslers.net/images/open/trees2.jpg
http://www.keslers.net/images/open/trees3.jpg
http://www.keslers.net/images/open/trees4.jpg

(and yes, the locust is coming down this summer)

 

[treeseer]

You own the land on the right? that pruning made those trees topheavy, and perhaps more likely to damage the lines.

You could complain, or sue, or shrug, or politely ask for an explanation of their strategy and goals.

I don't get it, but I am not an expert on line clearance.

 

[begleytree]

You own the land on the right? that pruning made those trees topheavy, and perhaps more likely to damage the lines.

You could complain, or sue, or shrug, or politely ask for an explanation of their strategy and goals.

I don't get it, but I am not an expert on line clearance.

http://www.arboristsite.com/showpost.php?p=432579&postcount=22

A decision is a solution to the question of what to do with the tree. Not all solutions involve a basal cut.
"...cut it out" is the utility matra I got so sick of hearing when I cleared lines.

Guy, My deed shows I own 1/2 the road here too. does that mean I can tell the county what they can/cannot do with the road? no. same with the utilitys. these deed easements were bought and put in place long ago (around these parts that was in the 40's.) the utility was granted the right to do whatever they deemed necessary, whenever they deem necessary. they are backed by public safety laws as well.
but hell, you already know that.
begs the question of the point of your post. we all know you detest the fact you did line clearance back in the day, and detest those who work hard to keep your lights and A/C running, and we all hate the way it looks sometimes, but......
Isn't this an oppritunity for more work? when ACRT goes thru here marking trees for trims or removal, I get swamped very quickly. do I do a better job? sure, but the homeowner is paying me to, too. those who lay around waiting on a 'freebie trim' get what they pay for, imo. you and I both know that out of 5K homes on a feeder, less than 1% actually call in to discuss the trimming cycle. most forget it until they didn't get what they thought they should have. I know in these parts, and in your area (I ran NC for Nelson on Duke energy property 1999-2002ish) the utility does as little as possible to your trees, to allow you to have the job safely completed by another contractor of your choosing. this is rarely done by the homeowners though.
Hopefully someday soon the utilities will begin charging each home for the work done on their property to clear the problems of the wrong trees planted under the lines. be a LOT of removals when folks realize the bill they will receive every 3-4 years, then we can all breathe a litle easier, and our eyes won't be so assulted. until then, sell the work, fix the trees.
I honestly dont know what else could be done. just as the county owns the road I pay taxes on, the utility essentially owns the ROW easements.
I've seen many a homeowner removed from their property by a LEO so that the trimming could be completed. I've seen trees removed, then 2 weeks later, 12' pin oak nursery stock plantings (under the line) cut down and stacked on the HO's front porch. I've also seen meters pulled until the HO allowed trimming. the utility does not owe the home the electrical service, and reserves the right to refuse service to anyone.
whinning and crying are one thing, but all the hardball cases I've seen, were resoundingly lost by the homeowners. Not to mention there are lists kept of problem customers. I assure you, these PPL are the LAST homes to have their power restored after a storm event.
so, what are you to do? the trees grow on the utility property, interfeer with electrical distribution, and are a public safety hazzard, and are trimmed away for free.
kinda seems like some folks look a gift horse in the mouth.
-Ralph

 

[treeseer]

Guy, My deed shows I own 1/2 the road here too. does that mean I can tell the county what they can/cannot do with the road? no.

Ralph I'll just deal with this first of many errors in your diatribe. If the county does not fix potholes or fixes them wrong or if its contractors leave debris in YOUR road shoulder or screw up the striping or allow overweight trucks to crack the bridges and break up the pavement (all of which have happened on MY property), you can and should tell them what to do with the road.

In your feverish smear you failed to address the point of my post--by gouging such a deep a hole in the middle of the tree, the clearance crew made the top of the tree more likely to break and fall on the wires.

True or false? This forum is here to Help the Homeowner, not for the Immoderator to suck up to his bosses by extolling their corporate virtue and abuse of power while getting his jollies by bashing arborists who talk trees. :computer2:

O speaking of, I'll be back in Columbus next Jan and will buy you TWO

 

[begleytree]

typical meuller BS

get all pizzed about the fact you were caught in another lie, ie the line clearance one.

so talk around the issues all the while personally attacking the messenger.

what tiny shred of credibility you may have had here is lost.

now I get to play moderator.
-Ralph

 

[computeruser]

It won't do you any good to complain, since the damage is done. And in my experience the line crews and their employers don't much care what the public has to say about the aesthetic side of things anyway.

I've said it before and have been bashed for it, but I'll say it again: in many instances I think that aesthetics should be weighed more heavily than concerns about line clearance. Especially in urban and suburban areas, where every leaf of every tree ought to be preserved to the fullest extent possible. If this means that the occasional tree falls on a powerline, so be it. Powerlines can usually be fixed quite quickly and people can buy generators darned-near anywhere anymore. But trees, by contrast, take a great deal of time to grow to a respectable size and their preservation should be given a greater degree of respect on this account.

Anecdotally, I have seen a number of line clearance pruning jobs that have created structurally unsound, imbalanced trees, or trees that had limbs of such a large size removed that they will never heal over before substantial rot starts in critical parts of the tree. It would seem that the more appropriate course of action might have been to simply remove the tree if it posed enough of a problem to merit trimming in the first place. Or, as I'd propose, to just leave the tree be until it causes a problem and just deal with it when it finally does.

Now this is just my two cents, but at least where I live I think that the sentiment is growing in favor of accepting the risk of power interruption as preferable to having neighborhoods fulll of unnatural looking post-clearance trees.

 

[rguseman]

Computeruser said:

I've said it before and have been bashed for it, but I'll say it again: in many instances I think that aesthetics should be weighed more heavily than concerns about line clearance. Especially in urban and suburban areas, where every leaf of every tree ought to be preserved to the fullest extent possible. If this means that the occasional tree falls on a powerline, so be it. Powerlines can usually be fixed quite quickly and people can buy generators darned-near anywhere anymore. But trees, by contrast, take a great deal of time to grow to a respectable size and their preservation should be given a greater degree of respect on this account.

Wow, I love trees and the way they look and all the other benefits but I couldn't disagree more.:jawdrop: With all due respect, your position totally disregards issues of safety, economics and quality of life. Can you imagine the outrage if utilites followed that rationale and failed to trim a tree that caused a downed power line that injured someone?

I agree that sometimes utilities do a hatchet job on tree trimming, but I don't think the alternative is a very good one. Ultimately, the solution is better awareness at the beginning when trees are planted. People shouldn't be surprised when they plant a bunch of blue spruces near powerlines and 20 years down the road the spruces become chipper food. They only have themselves to blame.

 

[lxt]

its been said clearance not appearance!!! I admit I take no honor in disfiguring a tree so the birds can sit on the wire. BUT! let a tree cause a power outage & then everybody wants tree work done(gunshy)

untill power runs underground trees will continue to be trimmed & look less than attractive.

LXT.............

 

[computeruser]

With all due respect, your position totally disregards issues of safety, economics and quality of life. Can you imagine the outrage if utilites followed that rationale and failed to trim a tree that caused a downed power line that injured someone?

I agree that sometimes utilities do a hatchet job on tree trimming, but I don't think the alternative is a very good one. Ultimately, the solution is better awareness at the beginning when trees are planted. People shouldn't be surprised when they plant a bunch of blue spruces near powerlines and 20 years down the road the spruces become chipper food. They only have themselves to blame.

You're right, of course. My earlier post was a bit on the dramatic side, though I still don't *like* the practice and would personally be willing to accept a line clearance regime much closer to what I articulated than what is currently practiced..

That having been said and for the sake of continuing this amusing debate, one could argue that the risk and liability would exist in instances where anything large enough to down a powerline is allowed within such a distance that it might cause harm, no? Using this logic, it's almost like trimming the tree acknowledges the presence of a risk that can only be fully mitigated by the total removal of the risk.

So in a sense we have already acknowledged that we willingly utilize a balancing of the risks and benefits of retaining the tree when we elect to partially trim it for 10' of clearance instead of totally removing it, right? From there we are then right back to the question of how to balance the relative risks, benefits, and whatnot with respect to the trees, the aesthetics, the economic situation, and the other related considerations.

 

[rguseman]

Nice to hear from you computeruser but I thought I left those deep, philosophical questions behind when I passed Torts as a 1L!:greenchainsaw:

 

[talcott]

Who Will Be Held Accountable

hello

i am a power lineman and do line clearance. i work for a rural electric and the the specs for line clearance are removal of any tree (that will be able to grow into the line) that is within 15' of either side of the high voltage line.

i talk to the landowners before i begin cutting and try to do a good job and try to please the land owners.

the tree belongs to the land owners.

if a tree burns down a high voltage power line and someone is killed by the downed conductor. WHO WILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE?

if a tree contacts a high voltage power line and sparks start flying and a fire is caused. WHO WILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE?

i do what i do and i try to do a good job but i am not a pro...this site has many many pros and they do do professional work. my job is to keep your power on and to keep your power rates reasonable. a good professional job takes longer and costs more.

power companies are constantly being sued when a high voltage power line causes a fire.

talcott

 

[kkesler]

I'm only 7 miles form you Kesler and we do suffer from some really poor line clearance trimming in this area. I watched and interacted with a crew that was trimming my trees and they did good while I was here but as soon as I was gone they butchered a dogwood..........a dogwood that did not interfere with power lines at all! All of the cuts were made using a pole saw and not one single piece was caught or lowered. The young man (22) in the bucket had under one year of experience and the super on the ground had 18 years of experience but did not know the name the climbing hitch he supposedly used. The third member of the crew had been with them for two weeks and fielded several cell phone calls about employment while here and I can't say I blame him.

They were nice guys but a real danger to any living plant material in the air or on the ground.

Yeah, these trees were already well clear of the lines. You could see where they had been trimmed previously with ~5 feet of branches still sticking out, this time they trimmed them all the way to the trunk.

They left a note several days prior with some illegible scribble and a number. I called and left messages two days before they came out but they never returned my calls.

It's certainly not a gift horse.

Seven miles, eh? I'll keep you in mind in case we need anything done around here.

 

[computeruser]

Nice to hear from you computeruser but I thought I left those deep, philosophical questions behind when I passed Torts as a 1L!:greenchainsaw:

Yup, I thought that post would bring back some memories!! Glad to have been of service. :hmm3grin2orange:

 

[M.D. Vaden]

kkesler....

From reading all the replies in here, probably the best single statement from all of them is PART of this written near the beginning...

You could complain, or sue, or shrug, or politely ask for an explanation of their strategy and goals.

Take this part of it...

You could ...... shrug, or politely ask for an explanation of their strategy and goals.

The reason ?

One, maybe the procedure is the best available, and there is nothing you can improve upon.

Two, an explanation allows you to hear their side of the story.

Three, once you have their side of the story, you can compare that to local regulations, and advice from another qualified local arborist if you choose to hire one.

Often, you best source of "certain advice" is a qualified local arborist who can see what's going on in person, and speak with you one on one.

Trees and power lines are not an easy combination - and its' a good thing that power lines don't grow also.

 

[Boa07]

I think MD has given you the best advice here, I always try to let the other party have their say, express their position, then you know what you're dealing with.
Its also only too apparent that the damage has been done (and please guys don't get huffy about the use of the word damage!) so even if you wanted the release of ranting on and heading into litigation ultimately it won't change things for you or your trees. To try and improve things in the future you need to avoid becoming a problem home owner in the eyes of the utility company, whilst ensuring that they understand what your needs are re the management of your trees...the two positions are not incompatible, I try to help manage such situations here in Oz between parties far more antagonistic than an unhappy homeowner and non caring utilities (both terms used in my context not yours!)

 

[Ekka]

Hopefully someday soon the utilities will begin charging each home for the work done on their property to clear the problems of the wrong trees planted under the lines. be a LOT of removals when folks realize the bill they will receive every 3-4 years, then we can all breathe a litle easier, and our eyes won't be so assulted.

Interesting concept, most of the offending trees here are owned by local govt, be good if the privately owned energy company could charge them too.

Also, you could say that those living in units/flats/hi-rise etc are subsidizing the other folk ... they pay the same but the utility company doesn't have to trim.

By charging it may provoke a more responsible attitude.

 

[treeseer]

an explanation allows you to hear their side of the story.

Three, once you have their side of the story, you can compare that to local regulations, and advice from another qualified local arborist if you choose to hire one.

Often, you best source of "certain advice" is a qualified local arborist who can see what's going on in person, and speak with you one on one.

Thanks Mario for following up so well. If approached reasonably, utility reps will respond in kind. The ones who swagger and threaten about slow service for complainers are low-level types who do not count.

As for gouging the middle of the tree by taking limbs back to their origins, that practice is slow to change. In 2005 I spoke with Asplundh's education guy, who wrote the BMP's. At that time he viewed subordination as a temporary step to limb removal, despite the imbalance that creates. It's a tough problem--if reduced limbs get shaded out they die and turn rotten.

That problem is correctable by also reducing the upper limbs that also hang toward the lines, but some contractors do not take the time to do that. So the result is like kkesler's topheavy trees. The search for a solution goes on. The utility folks who stay reasonable and don't act drunk on their power move the industry. The others do not matter.

we had some swaggering utility types come into our neighborhood, trying to strongarm homeowners into granting easements for a song. Some of the homeowners got smart and got their tree value appraised, so they could negotiate a fair price. that sent the bullies home, so now we will talk to someone reasonable. the wheat grows, while the chaff blows.

 

[deanminor35]

Take a look at this. The trees were already 5-10 feet away from the lines, and now I have a big crescent moon made from my trees. Should I at least call and complain?

Others.
http://www.keslers.net/images/open/trees2.jpg
http://www.keslers.net/images/open/trees3.jpg
http://www.keslers.net/images/open/trees4.jpg

(and yes, the locust is coming down this summer)

Now thats a trim,looks good.

 

[kkesler]

Digging for treasure? This is 4 years old.

 

[Rftreeman]

so has it gotten so bad that we have to dig up 4 year old threads to have something on top.....lol....