the all aussie dribble thread!

[lumberjackau]

Something a little different.
There's been a lot of 090 talk over the past months and not one single vid has come to life, so i thought i would fire one of mine up just for the fun of it. This is one of my own modified production class 90's, I had to resort to a used work chain legnthened for this exercise as my race chains are at home.
the wood is White Gum and is roughly 19inch by 17 1/2 inches.
chain, work 3/8 super chisel driven by a 10 tooth sprocket.

Note,,, that chain does the saw no justice and i will put a decent chain on next week and show again, its not a bad saw.

I like the new kevlar tracky dacks mate, where do you get those

 

[derwoodii]

I like the new kevlar tracky dacks mate, where do you get those

Interestingly I twas lookin at motor bike gear weekend and wondering how them Kevlar bike pants wound go as kinda back up or you know casual saw protection gear. Most only had knee and ass protection but one had full Kevlar waist to ankle and price started at hmm the kev inner liner $139 ebay TKD Jeans Motorcycle Kevlar Inner Liner Lining | eBay
fruggen hot tho in summer as all over Kevlar phew but you could pull out the inner Kevlar kit and swap to other work daks etc Still no idea how'd it go with a saw under way and nup not gunna be crash test dummy for ye. TKD | Tough Kevlar Denim

 

[ausneil 1]

Just to remind you guys, today is International Beer Day so crack open a cold one if you haven't done so already :msp_wink:

Ok you won that one......
as slim dusty sang:,,,,,,, id love to have a beer with that girl :msp_wink:

 

[MCW]

Well maybe question why the SAS has on many occassions been seen toting 7.62mm military load for its wack over 5.56mm and often 1 one round will do the job, 5.56 requires double tapping i have handled both plus have used the AK-47 in both gauges 7.62 and 5.56 mm and for the sake of a little extra weight they dont get up and run away.

Where have you seen the SAS toting 7.62mm rifles on many occasions since Vietnam? I can tell you now that in Somalia and East Timor they were using basically all 5.56mm M4's and in Afghanistan they were also using M4's (plus the occasional 5.56mm Minimi). There was generally one guy in the troop who would carry a scoped 7.62mm rifle for a bit of extra range. My mate was a forward scout in Timor and Afghanistan and always used an M4. There is no doubt though that a 7.62 x 51mm will lay an enemy out better but there isn't as much in it as people think - humans are easy to knock over. Modern projectile design really has closed the gap massively between the 5.56mm and 7.62mm. In Vietnam I'd rather have used an SLR anyday over an M16. I'm still partial to the old SLR's but in a modern war I'd take an M4 hands down. The biggest benefit between 5.56mm and 7.62mm isn't anything more technical than an increased magazine capacity and the ability to carry more ammo. I have heard a number of Vietnam veterans complain about the lack of stopping power from the M16's but you don't hear the same complaints nowadays. There was however one green tipped 5.56mm round that the US Special Forces had issues with early on in Afghanistan that seemed to overpenetrate and cause little damage.
I'd like to know where you heard the SAS double tapping anybody with the 5.56mm? The only time they are trained to do this is when they are doing counter terrorism training with the 9mm handguns at close range.
Note the distinct lack of 7.62mm in the following photos. I had a good look through a whole heap of photos I have here and there was never more than one 7.62mm rifle per patrol. The rest were always 5.56mm.

Also Bob where have you used an AK47 in 5.56mm? The smaller calibre version (5.45mm) is called the AK74. These have the red magazine and are pretty rare.

 

[ausneil 1]

an interesting reply matt, I can't add or coment on any of this as i am not trained in the military and have no intension in trying to keep pace with this.
I did not think the ak47 was chambered for 5.56 but was not about to say that as i don't know for sure.
All i can say from my own experience is, military rounds shot from my own rifles are all but usless compared to hunting rounds of the same calibour.
the old SKS i had was fun tho and back in the 80's bullets were cheap, just like the guns themselves.

 

[ozflea]

Thought they were chambered for 5.56 mm if it were 5.54 then its my mistake sorry ammo was supplied on the day our mustering worked with 9 sqn in Vietnam as door gunners on the hueys and as often as possible and if i got the chance i'd fly with the fellas in the Bushrangers as well 9 Sqn would do the insertans and extractions of SAS personnel often under fire that SAS mob sure knew how to make friends in a hurry.

Our job was to be trained in resisting special forces who had intentions of entering airbases so often training with the SAS to gain experiance in the tactics used by them our mustering still do plus do close protection of VIP's.

Personnelly i have used a few foriegn weapons part of our job you could say but i'm no expert but i recognise the crack of an AK47 great assault rifle my son-in-law carried a later version of it in Iraq where he served many tours as a private contractor and it was chambered for the 7.62mm and i have had photo's sent to me of the SAS personnell carrying 7.62 SLR's and only because of there hitting power.

I was quite a few ago invited to attend a open day at Williantown RAAF base to experiance the Steyr 5.56mm rifle and the Glock as they hadn't been long released into our old mustering of RAAF Airfield Defence Guards my impression was the Steyr was a nice lightweight weapon the scope made a big difference lifting the level of acrucary for all users didn't like the idea of grinding the magazine into the dirt to help steady the weapon plus there a bloody mechano set to clean and service and the glock well the police soon found out the hard way about proper weapon handling shooting themselves or there mates the glock was meant to be an aircrew weapon and didnt have a safety catch i suppose flyers are a bit lazy and simple minded to remove the safety to commence firing.

Bob

I was the radio operator or to the Army fellas the Signaller this was the section returning from night ambush duty

 

[MCW]

Thought they were chambered for 5.56 mm if it were 5.54 then its my mistake sorry ammo was supplied on the day our mustering worked with 9 sqn in Vietnam as door gunners.

The smaller calibre version of the AK47 (the AK74) first started showing up in Afghanistan with the Russians in the late 80's, early 90's if I remember correctly - it wasn't around back in the Vietnam era. Thoughts are that the Russians were impressed with the damage the NATO 5.56mm round was doing so designed one similar. Funnily enough the first information that came to light that the Russian's had developed a new, high velocity, small calibre assault rifle round came from Soldier Of Fortune magazine.

Personnelly i have used a few foriegn weapons part of our job you could say but i'm no expert but i recognise the crack of an AK47 great assault rifle my son-in-law carried a later version of it in Iraq where he served many tours as a private contractor and it was chambered for the 7.62mm and i have had photo's sent to me of the SAS personnell carrying 7.62 SLR's and only because of there hitting power.

Just remember though Bob that there is a big difference between the AK47's 7.62mm (7.62 x 39mm) and the SLR's 7.62mm (7.62mm x 51mm). Bullet diameter is about the only thing even remotely similar. The NATO round hit's a LOT harder, has a lot heavier projectile, has a larger case, and is travelling faster. The photos of the SAS you would have had sent to you holding SLR's would have been from 40 years ago, not modern day. My best mate was an operator in the SAS for nearly 15 years and in all that time I'm not even sure if he fired an SLR. There was a few in their armoury but just for the odd trip down memory lane. They also had .45ACP Thompsons, AK47's etc etc thazt would come out on the odd yippee shoot.

 

[ozflea]

The problem with the 5.62 is it needs a bone strike to inflick maximium damage on soft tissue it will pass straight through letting the target continue to engage 7.62mm blows a bloody large hole and the shock damage is quite a bit higher we found the 5.56mm would deflect on undergrowth and therefore miss the SLR's 7.62 mm punched straight through and we didn't have scopes on our weapons like nowadays i carried a 9mm F1 for night ambush and found it ideal for close encourters most engagements were less than 25 metres at night and were open sights are useless i soon learnt after our first contact the more magazines the better 30 rounds doesnt last long enough i still have empty AK 47 cases here on my mantlepiece as a sourvenier of our first night ambush which turned hot very quickly our 10 man sections were quite effective and at times carried two M-60's most times only the lead scout and tail end charlie carried M-16's and only because they were fully automatic which the Australian L1A1 was only semi-auto altough the fellas in our section changed out the safety's to the ones of the L2 A1's converting them to fully auto's some even removed the flash eluminator to scare the crap out of charlie and no tracer an idea borrowed from the SAS ............. AND VERY IMPRESSIVE during a night ambush. Our sections worked a six day week two nights on night ambush then two days on QRF ( quick reaction force ) then two days getting pissed.

Bob.

 

[Graham99]

Reading between the lines......

Dont steal anything from MCW, unless you want to dissapear. Matt probably pre digs the holes :msp_biggrin:

Graham

 

[peter92]

paid for me saw

hi all, well ive just paid the extra money to the insurance comp, so now i wonder how long it will take to post my saw from sydney to maryborough queensland. will put the pics up when it arrives
regards peter

 

[peter92]

what chain is this

hi guys, trying to find out what chain comes on my new 362, rang stihl and p/n 36210000072
ive tried to find this part no but with no luck, its 3/8 , 13/64
want to see which chain would be better for mostly hard wood cutting, iron bark
regard peter

 

[Stihlman441]

I would use a semi chisel Stihl is RM or RMC i dont know if a 362 comes with .325 or 3/8 .063,but im tipping it will be 3/8 pitch.

 

[peter92]

thanks for that info, i know it comes std 20''b&c 3/8 and 13/64. thats all that i got from the email from stihl
but as far as what the chain is, ive got no idea
regards peter

 

[Stihlman441]

Semi chisel (RM or RMC) would be best for your wood.

 

[peter92]

Semi chisel (RM or RMC) would be best for your wood.

yeah, i was thinking the semi, i did tell them im cutting hard wood so will have to wait and see. i looked on the site and they dont tell me what chain comes with a new saw, the specs only say about the engine and the bar
regards peter

 

[peter92]

hi guys, seen a stihl chain on evil bey , so should be, 3/8,0.063, 72 . 20' bar' now i dont knw if its s chisel or not
regards peter

 

[AUSSIE1]

Well Bob, any wonder there was alot of misses!

 

[MCW]

The problem with the 5.62 is it needs a bone strike to inflick maximium damage on soft tissue it will pass straight through letting the target continue to engage 7.62mm blows a bloody large hole and the shock damage is quite a bit higher we found the 5.56mm would deflect on undergrowth and therefore miss the SLR's 7.62 mm punched straight through and we didn't have scopes on our weapons like nowadays i carried a 9mm F1 for night ambush and found it ideal for close encourters most engagements were less than 25 metres at night and were open sights are useless i soon learnt after our first contact the more magazines the better 30 rounds doesnt last long enough i still have empty AK 47 cases here on my mantlepiece as a sourvenier of our first night ambush which turned hot very quickly our 10 man sections were quite effective and at times carried two M-60's most times only the lead scout and tail end charlie carried M-16's and only because they were fully automatic which the Australian L1A1 was only semi-auto altough the fellas in our section changed out the safety's to the ones of the L2 A1's converting them to fully auto's some even removed the flash eluminator to scare the crap out of charlie and no tracer an idea borrowed from the SAS ............. AND VERY IMPRESSIVE during a night ambush. Our sections worked a six day week two nights on night ambush then two days on QRF ( quick reaction force ) then two days getting pissed.

Bob.

There is no doubt a 7.62mm round will penetrate undergrowth and rainforest better than a 5.56mm round.
The common thought that a modern 5.56mm round (such as the SS109) needs to hit bone to cause tissue damage is crap and is based on original 5.56 x 45mm rounds from the Vietnam era. There was also another 5.56mm round that NATO countries banned in the late 70's as despite being an FMJ it was inflicting too much damage and considered "inhumane". I've heard many stories of VC continuosly copping rounds from M16's yet being dropped with one solitary SLR hit. A Vietnam Vet at the local gun club once said he saw a VC copping rounds in the backpack from M16's as he was running away yet was dropped by one SLR round. He had a simple radio in his pack that was stopping the smaller rounds and the SLR went through everything.
"Dum dum" type projectiles are outlawed by the Geneva Convention but modern armies have designed their high velocity small calibre projectiles to be unstable when hitting anything. A modern high velocity small calibre projectile will inflict considerably more damage than a 7.62mm projectile and they have been designed to do so. There is the odd clanger though as mentioned previously where newly designed rounds have been a dismal failure.
The SLR conversion to fully auto was was outlined in the "SAS - Phantoms Of The Jungle" book which you've probably been reading. It had way too much muzzle lift under full auto but did sound like a .50 cal by most accounts. It wasn't done very often as soldiers quickly realised that it wasted too much ammo too quickly and they were too much of a handful under full auto. Even the SAS hardly used them.
The SLR's are an awesome piece of kit and until the buyback I intended to buy one (just had to come up with $2500 at the time!) but times have changed in modern warfare and apart from GPMG's the 7.62 x 51mm is really only suited to sniping and machine guns with the odd exception.
If the 7.62mm was as good as you think Bob every SAS soldier would be using one as they actually get to choose their weaponry when they go out on patrol. The 7.62mm ticks a lot of boxes but the 5.56mm ticks more.

 

[Rudolf73]

Got the video uploaded. I didn't get a chance to use the same bar and chain on all the saws so the times don't mean much, but it gives a bit of an idea of how they perform. I'll do a better job of it next time :biggrin:

[video=youtube_share;tJ__hGjpM7M]http://youtu.be/tJ__hGjpM7M[/video]

 

[MCW]

yeah, i was thinking the semi, i did tell them im cutting hard wood so will have to wait and see. i looked on the site and they dont tell me what chain comes with a new saw, the specs only say about the engine and the bar
regards peter

Put it this way Peter it depends on how clued up the Stihl dealer is.
I have an MS310 in the shed from a customer that has Stihl RSC (full chisel) on it and all he cuts is dirty mallee on a dry dusty farm. This is what the local Stihl dealer told him he needs.

Option 1 is that the dealer hasn't got a clue (highly likely).
Option 2 is that he wants him to blunten it more often so he makes more money from sharpening and replacing it.

Although I've run out of 3/8" .063" chipper chain (wears even better than semi chisel) I used to always fit that to customer's saws if I thought they were going to abuse it and couldn't sharpen a chain very well (or at all). You could tell the sort of crap they cut and how they looked after their gear by the way the bar was worn and how dusty everything was

When you pick the saw up or make any phone calls try to specify that you want RMC semi chisel as Andrew mentioned above. If you happened to get RSC you'll regret it the second you hit anything even remotely dirty.