The best sharpening

[herschel]

StIhL MaGnUm's chain maint. thread got me thinking.

In your opinion, Which method gives the best, long lasting sharpening.

I use the bar mounted sharpener and an older Oregon chain grinder.

My smaller chains seem sharper for longer when I use the bar mounted. They don't hold their sharpness for too long with chain grinder.

The chain grinder gets my big chains extremely sharp. The bar mounted does a good job also, but I'd say the grinder wins here.

I don't sharpen with a gauge or free-hand.....yet.

 

[Stumper]

This may be old hat to lots of folks but it was new to me and to my dad who has been sharpening saws for 35+ years. I find it best to sharpen one side of the chain at a time. With the chain tensioned properly on the bar and everything held securely start filing with the trailing edge of the tooth on your side of the bar. File with the file held at an angle of 10degrees or so. You want the file elevated those 10 degrees at its rear so that you are filing down and away from yourself. Going from trailing edge to point of the tooth. If you get the angle too extreme you will find that you dish out the top cutting surface into a curve rather than it running a straight(though angled) line(very slight dishing won't hurt but if it's very much you lose performance and edge-holding ability.).By the way you are maintaining an angle of 30-35 degrees to the direction of chain travel. 30 degrees is the way most chain is set up new. This is best for saws under 45cc. Big saws(over 65cc) will work best with the greater 35 degree angle. In between take your pick. So far this is fairly standard-file until the tooth is sharp. NOW. To finish the tooth. Turn your file to almost perpendicular to the bar/direction of travel.Dispense with the up/down 10degree angle(flat across the top of the bar now) File the side plate of the tooth DEEPENING the gullet to the bottom of the sideplate. You are not trying to put a deep hook into the tooth rather you want a SLIGHT hook that extends all the way to the bottom of the cutting portion of the side plate. Sharpen all teeth as evenly as possible. If you are right handed you will probably find the left side of the chain awkward with a tendency to jump the file out of the tooth and bang your knuckle into the chain. Wear gloves , go slow and be careful. This is easy to demonstrate but clumsy to describe. If you can understand my attempt you should find your saws cutting 10-20% better than machine sharpened. May God bless, Justin

 

[rbtree]

but, stumper, if you change from 10 degrees to level, you will end up with a less than flat under surface....and defeat the whole purpose for tipping, toget sharper inner edge angles.

I keep that 10 degree tip, and apply the correct downwrd pressure to maintain proper depth- and change file size as the cutters get smaller, so as not to cut into the straps more than a tad.

I usually file on the job, and as my eyesight weakens, it gets a bit tough to file correctly. Especially as I'm trying to get better at square filing-gotta have the specs handy for that, and I hate em...

 

[rupedoggy]

RBTree some of the first words you said to me were " do you use those to sharpen chain?" And you were refering to the 4x magnifiers I was wearing. My response to you was "no I use these to see, I use a file to sharpen my chain". You have to see to get good results my friend. Get some good magnifiers and you will do a good job. It is amazing what you can see if you have the right equipment. Have you ever noticed that those highest paid Doctors (brain surgeons and such) always have those magnifiers on their glasses. You have got to see the details man! Mike

 

[HUSKYMAN]

Nothing beats a good, hand sharpened chain, sonny!

 

[Gypo Logger]

Hi there, I think Stumper explained very well how to freehand file.
What I heard him saying is that several depths, pressures and angles are applied where required and when needed. This works very well as long as you get all teeth exact and thats the hard part.
Stumper also described a concave top plate, looking down on the cutter, also known as a beek. I find this very desireable as it isolates the working corner to needle sharp. This can be accomplished by tilting the file up 35 degrees.
Gypo

 

[don]

Thank you for the explanation on how to sharpen

Is there a place with pictures?
Mr. Art Martin discussed a technige called "rolling the top plate" and I quote "For example, "rolling" a file on the top plate is a proceedure that is undetectable and not shared, known, or even understood, except by a few people." Is this what causes the
"concave top plate, looking down on the cutter, also known as a beek. I find this very desireable as it isolates the working corner to needle sharp. This can be accomplished by tilting the file up 35 degrees" as stated by Gypo in an earlier post on this poll?

 

[don]

Lost on step 2 of Stumper's explanation

"NOW. To finish the tooth. Turn your file to almost perpendicular to the bar/direction of travel.Dispense with the up/down 10degree angle(flat across the top of the bar now) File the side plate of the tooth DEEPENING the gullet to the bottom of the sideplate. You are not trying to put a deep hook into the tooth rather you want a SLIGHT hook that extends all the way to the bottom of the cutting portion of the side plate." Are you deepening/sharpenng the "valley" between the side pate cutting edge and the depth gauge? That way you are extending the cutting edge down lower? OR are you changing the angle of cut on the side plate area?

 

[Stumper]

Don,Yes.Both. I don't know if my camera can capture the detail but I'll try this weekend. RB , Not sure I understand you fully but when I switch, the file no longer contacts the underside of the top plate. If I were to maintain the 10 degree angle it would tend to do so and also COULD (if the file is actually perpendicular to the bar)leave a slightly flatter edge on the sideplatealong with a deeper hook. (I promise to play with the file though-I've been mistaken before....1984 I believe )

 

[Art Martin]

Don,
The term "rolled" has nothing to do with the concave effect that you get when using a round file. When I used the term "rolled, it strictly referred to chiselbit racing chains. For lack of a better word, this term shouldn't be construed to mean something that it isn't. Trying to analyze or interpret such a word could be misleading. The information in the forgoing threads cover the basic saw filing subject very well. There is is a certain limit that you can reach when using a round file on a chisel chain when trying to thin the side plate to make the chain cut faster. There is also a limit with a chiselbit file but a you must know what that limit is and it take years of filling to get all the angles correct with the final stroke of the file.

Art Martin

 

[Stumper]

I've tried to post some pics but cant get the file to upload-sorry.

 

[rbtree]

stumper:

"If I were to maintain the 10 degree angle it would tend to do so and also COULD (if the file is actually perpendicular to the bar)"

Not sure I understand, as you can't have both perp. and a 10 Degree tip at the same time.

I get plenty of hook profile, with the 10 degree tip, and do sometimes end up filing into the gullets just a bit, but almost never have a chain break. I usually use a 13/64 file, switching to a 3/16 as the teeth get smaller.

I still can't see the reason for changing the file angle, as it will decrease the inner sharpened angle of the side of the tooth, which would slow down the cutting speed, I think.

 

[don]

Wow !

Don't know if I did it correctly but it sure does cut faster!
I will put up some pics to see the method I am using and determine if I am doing it correctly.

 

[rbtree]

yeppers, ruuupers, i reckon that would have to be some mighty fine space age plastic to be hard enuf to sharpen chain...

..but hey, it might work for that toy saw in the Bailey's catalog...

Lately, I've been making dollars, but havent learned how to make sense....

 

[Stumper]

I tried to send Don my pics in an email-I had them all on a single page document but after 10minutes it was only 30% transferred! I'm trying another route.

 

[Stumper]

And again.

 

[Stumper]

Again.

 

[Stumper]

one more

 

[Stumper]

make that 2

 

[Stumper]

RB, Maybe the pics will help clarify (though they leave alot to be desired). BY almost perpendicular I meant nearly 90 degrees to the direction of chain travel. A 10 degree down angle while filing would then result in the edge at the bottom of the sideplate where it radiuses into the bottom of the gullet "wedging" the wrong direction to bite at all. The whole change of angle thing is counterintuitive but an old pro showed me (and convinced me with cutters in the wood) that it really does enhance performance.