The business of doing business

[Pancake]

With the number of companies that offer tree services in our local phone book growing at an exponential rate each passing year, it is becomming more expensive to become one of the "fittest" in the survival of the fittest game. In our market there are over 120 companies listed in the book, most of them are fly by the seat of their pants locals with no business operating a chainsaw. The fact of the matter is that the majority do not hold the proper insuances, general liability or workers compensation. They have no idea what the acronyms ISA, TCIA, or ANSI represent. And they excell at underbidding legitimate tree companies. Our company has went to great lenghts at some expense to become accredited by the TCIA, a sustaining member of the ISA, certified arborists, treeworkers, and holders of various other liscenses. We have spent piles of money on advertising and a website. Our equipment, uniforms, and attitudes reflects professionalism.

My questions are: How many more tree companies that do not adhere to the ethical obligations of our industry can the market withstand? How many companies are going to the above mentioned lenghts to seperate themselves in their respective markets? Other than providing superior service, what else can companies do to gain more arket shares?

 

[mckeetree]

Well, the big problem is regulation and the enforcement of that regulation. The tree care industry doesn't have it and the green industry as a whole sure as hell doesn't have it. There is some regulation and enforcement as far as pesticide application goes. Until they come up with a business lincense for tree care companies on a state by state basis that requires gen. liability and WC plus the lincense holder pass a basic knowledge test things won't change much. And the enforcement needs to be as simple as you get caught without a lincense you get your ass fined and shut down. I was discussing this with a group of arborist in Austin a few months back and everybody seems to feel the same way. One guy said if you are a one man band with no employees then there would not be the WC requirement and that makes sense.

 

[lxt]

Pancake, welcome to arboristsite, I feel your pain!! go through this every year thats why my operation is fairly small!! cant afford to be competitive.

Ive tried alot of tactics, some work some dont!! it is for the reasons you mentioned that I dont hold membership in any particular organization anymore, this may be wrong but hey! I was a member ISA,(for years) bought their publications, etc... member TCIA(currently) member arborday foundation, the problem is People DONT CARE!! 90% only care about the price(at least where I live).

hell just the other day Im watchin the news(PA) & verizon/netzero cant remember which had a contractor busted with several illegal immigrants, they got caught by an officer that noticed their tow item wasnt properly connected(duct tape dont work) no safety chains,lights,breakaway,etc...

I imagine this will change someday, but ill be to old to enjoy any benefit that comes from change. In part this is why I dislike lawn services/landscapers, dont get me wrong there are good co`s. out there!!! but most are shady jack of all trade, I can do it all worthless hacks.

choose a trade for god sake!! I did & now I have to compete with grass cutters, roofers,& mr.handyman!! god knows who else.

LXT....................

 

[Pancake]

It is all about the money unfortunately. I love capatialism. I also love trees and working with them. I don't need all of the memberships and credentials to prove this, but they are valuable in a tight market- especially if the economic ceiling is high enough to warrant paying the wages of experts who provide quality service. There is a local company-38 years of service- who's company is the " Tree Surgeon". This really irks me because I can't really put up a billboard that says " Hey, would you let me operate on your kids, I'm a "surgeon", well, I don't have any letters attached to my name to prove it " People are easily swayed by words like Surgeon, Doctor. Especially if they are to lazy to research what a tree surgeon is and services they would provide. The TCIA is working to form insurance coops and legislators will listen if you get in front of them. I really don't think there will ever be enough money in the pot to afford Government regulators to police our industry. Self regulation and providing legitimate services with morals and ethics in mind is the way. People in America are slowly getting on board the environmental movement, and are becomming more aware of the value of trees, especially mature trees, to our society as a whole. I feel that in the near future legitimate companies who operate within the realm of industry standards will be there to fufill the needs of the people and the trees.

 

[mckeetree]

I have even had to compete with house keepers, illegal aliens,cowboys, a prostitute (not joking) and garbage collectors. It is ridiculous.

 

[treeseer]

Self regulation and providing legitimate services with morals and ethics in mind is the way. People in America are slowly getting on board the environmental movement, and are becomming more aware of the value of trees, especially mature trees, to our society as a whole. I feel that in the near future legitimate companies who operate within the realm of industry standards will be there to fufill the needs of the people and the trees.

I agree. In my market there are 104 tree services in the yp and 4 arborists. By promoting the value of arboriculture you can build demand for high quality tree care. Connect with extension agents and master gardeners, garden clubs, other allies, get the story told in print, to promote the profession.

 

[clearance]

Uniforms???

 

[jonseredbred]

Well, the big problem is regulation and the enforcement of that regulation.

Until they come up with a business lincense for tree care companies on a state by state basis that requires gen. liability and WC plus the lincense holder pass a basic knowledge test things won't change much.

And the problem with that is it is ultimately the customers choice. I agree with what you are saying but until the customer stops using scab companies its like pushing rope uphill, we can debate it all day long it wont change.

Best thing you can do to survive is don't worry about the scabs, if you lose focus on your company by worrying about them you have lost it all. Keep your nose to the ground working smart and efficiently. The scabs will go away, but again there is always another to tale the place of one going out of business.

 

[mckeetree]

And the problem with that is it is ultimately the customers choice. I agree with what you are saying but until the customer stops using scab companies its like pushing rope uphill, we can debate it all day long it wont change.

Best thing you can do to survive is don't worry about the scabs, if you lose focus on your company by worrying about them you have lost it all. Keep your nose to the ground working smart and efficiently. The scabs will go away, but again there is always another to tale the place of one going out of business.

But at least regulation would thin them out a little.

 

[treevet]

I think it is more difficult to develope a larger tree company than it used to be, unless it is a second generation or third w an established clientele. There is still no problem w the correct procedures and connections to operate a one to three crew bus but when you go beyond that problems arise. Employee probs (drugs, laziness, etc.), competition (unqualified for the difficult and highly skilled jobs and qualified to do easy stuff now that they see what we have earned the right to make during the course of total service per man hour) and the general literal costs such as fuel, insurance, equip and maint, etc., etc. that didn t used to be so high.

It is easy to beat up unqualified competetitors when you re small but try to expand they ll get you back every time.

 

[Log hog]

I Don't Mind The Scabs So Much.

In fact the scabs are good for business and word of mouth. I have a guy who's been doing business around here for 30 years. He will tell people he'll be there in a day or two to give them a estimate and never shows up. And then on the other hand he'll get the job and never show up. Well they always come around and call me to get it "Done right the first time." In the last few weeks I had a gentlemen call me and say I need a stump ground out today, I went with one of your competitors cause he was cheaper. He was suppose to grind it out days ago and I am closing on my house and its a stipulation that it be removed. I left my groundy with plenty to do, got my grinder and the job was done within the hour he called me. Last week another guy called me and a different company than the one before did a similar thing and canceled on him 3 different times. I went and ground out his stump and even charged him $30 less that the guy who was suppose to do the job, He got a nice surprise when he got that bill.I wont kid you its hard at times to see these tree turds running around town sometimes, but I always have faith and hope. Most of the time if you pay attention the hacks don't last very long, in the last 2 years there have been about 5 or more of them come and go. They can't handle it, they see the money they make on the weekends and at nights and think this is a cake walk and think there big time. But after 6 months to a year or so they call it quits. Why you ask? Because of the over head, and how physically demanding it is. After a while they realize this is everyday not just on the weekends. They so realize to be a real business they need alot of equipment, employees, insurance, insurance, fuel, saws you name it. It's a hard life to lead. Then they come to what little senses they have and quit.

 

[Pancake]

Yes, I said uniforms. Even clean ones at that. And call us prudes, but we actually shave and keep our hair short. There used to be a commercial for Cannon cameras featuring Andre Agassi, "image is everything". So true, especially when you are competing for the nice jobs and big contracts. We get told all the time " you guys just look like you know what you are doing" or your guys and trucks look so nice" both I think are code for "I can trust you". Overhead is a manageable challenge, you just have to be organized and take a calculated risk every so often. My grandmother always said being prompt and on time is very important.

 

[jonseredbred]

Yes, I said uniforms. Even clean ones at that. And call us prudes, but we actually shave and keep our hair short. There used to be a commercial for Cannon cameras featuring Andre Agassi, "image is everything". So true, especially when you are competing for the nice jobs and big contracts. We get told all the time " you guys just look like you know what you are doing" or your guys and trucks look so nice" both I think are code for "I can trust you". Overhead is a manageable challenge, you just have to be organized and take a calculated risk every so often. My grandmother always said being prompt and on time is very important.

everyone dressed the same and clean is a must. you dont want to look like your guys are out there working for beer money.

 

[treevet]

In theory the uniform thing is nice however I m happy if my help wears a logo shirt on high profile jobs in the summer and in the winter clothes are going on and off so much it is impossible for them all to be a uniform. I think this is the least important part of image. If you are so worried about competition and uniforms at this time of year, Pancake, you must be a very new entity or I guess there may be another reason. There is so much work out there right now we could show up in clown suits and it wouldn t matter. I m booked up for a couple of months and I m selling a 100.00 per man hour.

 

[mckeetree]

I'm booked thru labor day but we have done the uniform thing for years. And non- legit competition bugs me no matter how much work we have stacked up and we have been in business 21 years. Clown suits??? I think I know those guys.

 

[clearance]

everyone dressed the same and clean is a must. you dont want to look like your guys are out there working for beer money.

Never seen it here, sure you see guys wearing Davey and Asplundh shirts but uniforms, no, so its not a must. Uniforms, ha! Sounds like a dorkfest.

 

[mckeetree]

Never seen it here, sure you see guys wearing Davey and Asplundh shirts but uniforms, no, so its not a must. Uniforms, ha! Sounds like a dorkfest.

Dorkfest. My God.

 

[Pancake]

Wow, I have never heard dorkfest used so elegantly. Yes I can see 13 immigrants, illegal or not, on the side of the highway, shirts untucked, bandannas on under their semi protective hardhats, ripped blue jeans. But Dorkfest? C'mon, you've been in business for 21 years. How about slackers, unmotivated, lazy. I realize there are a lot of guys doing it for beer money, hey who cares- at least I'm here. Where is the desire to look sharp. The passion to be able to sell a quality service to someone who desperstely wants the best care for their trees? Go ahead, call me what you want. I am looking at the bigger picture I think. I can imagine where you look for dentists, doctors, and other services. Hemmingway once said (paraphrasing) the early mornnig is the time of sailors and poor people. I prefer to look at the early morning as the time for ambitious go getters who care about the service they provide to their customers and the means in which they can deliver it. Dorkfest.

 

[Pancake]

Treevet- I'll be the first to tell you we are't worried about you, work, or much else. Just show up and do more than the client expects. We have a quality reputation and the juice to back it up. I am proud to say that we don't show up and present a dog and pony show to the "high profile" jobs. I failed to realize that we were supposed to be treating trees differently. I'm glad you have the work, I hope you enjoy the nasty back yards fenced in with the dog poo, the run down apartment complexes, and the likes. Yes, I'm sure you only bust out the uni's at the finer jobs. The ones where the boss man shows up and flexes his intellectual prowess, "if it were me I would ...." Forgive me if I'm to abrasive, I only have one green square.

 

[clearance]

Take it easy now. I wear fallers pants with a belt, no suspenders, a t-shirt of my choosing, and $400+ boots. If its colder then I wear a jacket, Stanfield shirt, etc. I shave every couple of days usually. Uniforms are no garauntee of anything, other than conformity on the part of workers. I have no problem with people 'cause I look like the kind of guy who cuts trees, a uniform would be viewed with suspicion by most customers here. Uniforms are for cops, fireman, UPS guys, that kind of thing. Do you provide the uniforms? Do you provide extras, 'cause anyone that works hard gets dirty, or is it a cleanliness fetish?