The Impact Of An Impact Driver

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

Well I thought I’d update those who saw my previous post about my new impact driver.

I was able to strip the chainsaw to bits in little more than a few minuets using the impact gun. The only nut I couldn’t release was the clutch, it could be that there wasn’t enough compression in the saw (127psi) so it kept spinning.

Anyway I used a breaker bar and clamped the chainsaw in place with rope in the piston to break it




Highly recommend trying one for stripping the saw. It got tedious unscrewing bolts by hand so it was very refreshing.

 

[Short timer]

The only nut I couldn’t release was the clutch

Don't forget the clutch is left handed threads.

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

Don't forget the clutch is left handed threads.

Yep haha I remembered that, but appreciate the message !!

 

[HomeSteed]

IMHO Impact drivers and impact wrenches are the only way to go! Cordless and airless is the only way to go if you're investing in new tools. I don't build/work on OPE for a living. Only as a hobby. As a builder of homes however, going cordless has been awesome! Very time saving and convenient! For some of the shop tools, I run cordless/airless now in the Milwaukee M18 FUEL and M12 FUEL line of tools, and I'm never going back to air impacts. Now that I have everything from 1/8 inch to 1 inch. For most things outside of a good little blower nozzle and some little specialty tools, air has become unnecessary. I use my little m12 fuel surge impact driver, and fuel 3/8 "stubby" impact wrench for pretty much everything on the saws. I get the mid torque out for anything too stubborn. VERY rare! 250ft pounds forward or rear on the m12 fuel stubby is far more than enough pretty well always. And they do the job so fast. I still like to do certain saws the old school way. It's like therapy if you're not in a hurry. And it makes me focus on the saw and parts a lot more closely.
Glad you were able to get her broke down fairly easily.
Take care!

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

IMHO Impact drivers and impact wrenches are the only way to go! Cordless and airless is the only way to go if you're investing in new tools. I don't build/work on *** for a living. Only as a hobby. As a builder of homes however, going cordless has been awesome! Very time saving and convenient! For some of the shop tools, I run cordless/airless now in the Milwaukee M18 FUEL and M12 FUEL line of tools, and I'm never going back to air impacts. Now that I have everything from 1/8 inch to 1 inch. For most things outside of a good little blower nozzle and some little specialty tools, air has become unnecessary. I use my little m12 fuel surge impact driver, and fuel 3/8 "stubby" impact wrench for pretty much everything on the saws. I get the mid torque out for anything too stubborn. VERY rare! 250ft pounds forward or rear on the m12 fuel stubby is far more than enough pretty well always. And they do the job so fast. I still like to do certain saws the old school way. It's like therapy if you're not in a hurry. And it makes me focus on the saw and parts a lot more closely.
Glad you were able to get her broke down fairly easily.
Take care!

Thanks for the message!! Really interesting to hear your take and tools you use. I find battery so convenient and although I have a silent air compressor (it really is silent, it’s like a cat purring) it’s too small to run an impact tools great for cleaning saws, parts with the air gun attachment, pumping tires and blowing filters out, but that’s it. Also works great with finish nailers! Battery is just so convenient and easy!

 

[RandyinTN]

About the only thing I use my compressor for anymore is to add air to my vehicle tires. Recently I picked up a Milwaukee 2767-20 1/2 inch impact gun. This thing has 1400 ft pounds of nut busting torque and 1,000 tightening. Am so impressed decided to order the mid torque model and then picked up a 7.5 inch circular saw. Battery technology rocks!

 

[CR888]

I use both, for auto work mostly air, much better power to weight and size ratio with air, last long and able to rebuild in future. Batteries are expensive and only last a few years. My nano 1/2" is under 1.2kg and puts out an honest 600ftlbs. But for saw work small 12vt impact drivers even small 3.6v screwdrivers are the way forward.

 

[HomeSteed]

I'm not familiar with the metric system like that. Unfortunately being here in the u.s. we are a different breed.
The nice thing about milwaukee fuel is the 5 year no questions asked warranty. Never had to use it out of me and the crew. But it's there. And the claimed power is there also. You could argue that the battery opperated stuff is heavier. But in all fairness, you'd have to measure weight with the compressor and hose also to be a fair comparison. Really, unless a person is already is a shop with a large compressor, best bet is m12 and m18 fuel tools. I've got an array of top of the line I-R, snap on, mac, in air and cordless. There's nothing like these milwaukee tools. I spent a lot of money on the dewalt tools to give them away too.
People will always have a preference. But man I wouldn't go back to air for any reason whatsoever. I'm covered from 0-1800 ft pounds of tq. Without a cord or hose. If it doesn't come off, It's going to get cut off. That's just my take. And I am a pneumatic fan for tools otherwise. We use Max Tools High pressure Nailers and compressor. I wouldn't give those up at the current moment by any means. Most probably won't know what Max is. But that's ok!
But we are getting so close to a cordless jobsite. And batteries are making more power doing it. Technology is incredible. I get pretty excited for what's in store. Also, we use these batteries all day every day. We've had a few die sure. 6 years later. I don't think that's bad. Usually a dead cell. So I can rebuild them as I want. Samsung and LG cells is typical. But I pay 45 bucks for a new M18 5.0XC battery. Doesn't make sense for me to spend 20 bucks on a single cell. I spend an average of 130 for the M18 12.0 HO batteries that use Samsung 21700 cells. And have gotten so many batteries from buying kits and promos, that we are set for a very very long time. I've been on the m18 platform for oh idk. Has to be about a decade. And maybe 5 batteries that have been dropped off of 3 story builds, rained on. Ran over, etc. And abused as they should out of 50 or so batteries.probably more. I don't think that's too bad. We have had alot of issues with dewalt batteries. But we make due for now because we love the Flexvolt 120v sliding compound miter saws, the 60V track saw, and the 60V worm drive style saws. The equipment makes us the most money possible while staying safe and not having osha on our ass. at the end of the day cordless is a huge win for us YMMV

 

[HomeSteed]

Also make no mistake. I'm not a fanboy of one particular brand. We do run them all. Milwaukee, Makita, dewalt, Bosch, hitachi/metabo HPT and German Metabo. Etc....But milwaukee has done us the best when it comes down to hand tools. And specialty tools. And I like to run the most power I can while not being an inconvenience in power or size.... We have plenty of air powered nailers and electric tools. Jack hammers for instance. Or the Max high pressure nailers That I don't see being replaced by cordless soon. And I am a general fan of tools Just as I am saws. Old, new, unique or standard. So I won't knock anyone's style or way of doing things. But I will give an honest overview of my experiences and thoughts. I may encourage a certain tool because of our experience with it. The nice thing is, if you hate it, take it back. Get a refund and give your input. I've never heard of anyone hating their m12 fuel stubby impacts or the high torque m18 fuel either. But it could happen? I really like the mid tq gen 2's as well. The size of a 1/2 inch pnuematic, 400 ft pounds/650 ft loosening. It works great for our large lags and doing concrete anchors. And anchoring down our sill plates. No hose, no fatigue, no noise, way more than ample power. I run 3.0 HO batteries on mine to keep her light and powerful. Give these things a shot. I went from a die hard pneumatic or nothing type to cordless pretty quick once milwaukee started bringing these new tools out. Of course you have to do what makes sense for you in your trade. And prices vary all over the world. Just wanted to clear up, that I will not steer someone wrong (intentionally anyway.) And I will not bash anyone for their input either. But I will give mine! Anyway. I have got to get back at it. Y'all have a great one!

 

[catbuster]

For 1/2”... I have the Milwaukee M18. It’s awesome. A couple guys have the Dewalt. They work too. I actually like the Dewalt’s ergonomics better but the Milwaukee performs better. I have a MAC gun I like in the shop, but that’s pretty much where it resides. It’s lighter & more ergonomic but the dragging the air hose kinda negates that.

For 1”, I have an Ingersoll-Rand air gun. I know there are cordless versions available now, but I’ll be running air for a while. The Milwaukee 1/2” gun works great, but I’m not sold on bigger cordless stuff... Yet. One of Cat’s mechanics is running the 1” gun and seems to like it. He’s telling me the Milwaukee gun hits faster vs the air tools hitting harder, which makes sense given that the air tools have a bigger hammer & anvil whereas the Milwaukee gun turns a higher RPM and may be setting up a harmonic that’s amplifying the power.

I use air when I’m breaking big bolts loose, the guns are easier to run and hit harder. The 1.5” and 1” guns look interesting, but there’s a good chance if I’m working on something that heavy I’ll have the service truck with an air compressor there anyway.

 

[HomeSteed]

For 1/2”... I have the Milwaukee M18. It’s awesome. A couple guys have the Dewalt. They work too. I actually like the Dewalt’s ergonomics better but the Milwaukee performs better. I have a MAC gun I like in the shop, but that’s pretty much where it resides. It’s lighter & more ergonomic but the dragging the air hose kinda negates that.

For 1”, I have an Ingersoll-Rand air gun. I know there are cordless versions available now, but I’ll be running air for a while. The Milwaukee 1/2” gun works great, but I’m not sold on bigger cordless stuff... Yet. One of Cat’s mechanics is running the 1” gun and seems to like it. He’s telling me the Milwaukee gun hits faster vs the air tools hitting harder, which makes sense given that the air tools have a bigger hammer & anvil whereas the Milwaukee gun turns a higher RPM and may be setting up a harmonic that’s amplifying the power.

I use air when I’m breaking big bolts loose, the guns are easier to run and hit harder. The 1.5” and 1” guns look interesting, but there’s a good chance if I’m working on something that heavy I’ll have the service truck with an air compressor there anyway.

Can't argue with any of that at all! Especially with a service Truck and large air. If I want that kind of volume, I have to use one of the max compressors and choke it way down. It's a hassle for me. So for the trackhoe and bobcats, attachments, etc. I decided to get the 1 inch FUEL. Well I hadn't necessarily planned for it, but the first smoking deal I saw on it, I jumped on it fast.... I enjoy it. It hits hard, but it's fast too. There again, I am unsure of the complete differences in the 1 inchers. I do know the gen 2 mid tq impact hits very fast. More like an impact driver compared to the HTIW. TQ limiting bars are super inaccurate and inconsistent with the mid tq because of that I believe. The HTIW works great with them though. I still use a good dedicated tq wrench in the end, but the tq bars get me right there. Anyways, I am pretty stoked to see what kind of tech we have in a few more years. I ordered the extended reach m12 fuel 3/8 ratchet. I'm excited to get that one also! Definitely going to change things for me when working on equipment and trucks!

And I agree, I love dewalts ergonomics. Of course now I'm more used to milwaukee. I prefer the pistol grip feel of the m12 fuel tools now. They have a Hogue overmold pistol grip feel to them. Since I'm pretty familiar with those, I really adjusted quickly. Haha! And the m18 grip feels a lot like a nice rubber overmolded magpul MOE grip. Which I ran for 4 years at a previous "job." (I'm not sure if anyone understands any of this. Hopefully you do)
I ran dewalt everything also, up until the 20v max line brushless line came out and immediately started giving me so many problems. About that same time Dewalt let me down big time Customer service wise. In which point I gave the dewalt stuff I didn't replace with milwaukee to my little brother. Man, I still have the old nicad tools from dewalt and they have never skipped a beat. They sit, but still work at least. We also used to have service centers working on these tools in house. Now there are none. And the paperwork and reciepts needed to try to warrant a brand new tool just chapped my arse! I still run some of my favorite 20v tools. The planer, jobsite fan, TS radio, a 996 hammerdrill I use as a mixer, flexvolt 120v miter saws, the little 60v table saws and rear handle saws. Etc. A lot of our corded tools are dewalt too. 10" Jobsite table saws, all of our 10 inch wet saws are dewalt corded. (Please dewalt make a flexvolt and a larger ripping capacity!) Best table saw, and tile saws out still today in my experience. 13 inch planer in the shop, etc... But QC,CS, and warranty is missing the mark for me. And having a business to keep running especially. It just got out of hand. I've heard within the last 6 months, they've decided to focus more on that mark they have been missing. I hope they do. Dewalt used to be #1 to me. Go yellow or go home kind of deal. They need to get back to trying to be number 1 in cordless.
Anyway, back on topic of IW's I never owned anything larger than an old 3/4 Pneumatic impact until I got my FUEL High torque 1 inch. I imagine the high end IW's have a harder hit. In regards to my 1/2"pneumatics, they don't seem to hit harder. They are slower though. So maybe they are hitting harder to do the job. I can't tell tbh. I do know the 1/2 inch fuel HTIW breaks loose what they wouldn't. Which was enough to appease me. If it has a way faster blow that might be the reason it breaks my big sockets. Haven't had that issue with the 1 inch. I'd say because of the arbor size and less material around the smaller anvil.

I thoroughly enjoy tools and man toys. So by all means, everyone keep giving info on your impact experiences. Input, opinions, questions, etc....
Assuming the OP is ok with that!? If not we can chop it at the knees.

Take care!

 

[catbuster]

Can't argue with any of that at all! Especially with a service Truck and large air. If I want that kind of volume, I have to use one of the max compressors and choke it way down. It's a hassle for me. So for the trackhoe and bobcats, attachments, etc. I decided to get the 1 inch FUEL. Well I hadn't necessarily planned for it, but the first smoking deal I saw on it, I jumped on it fast.... I enjoy it. It hits hard, but it's fast too. There again, I am unsure of the complete differences in the 1 inchers. I do know the gen 2 mid tq impact hits very fast. More like an impact driver compared to the HTIW. TQ limiting bars are super inaccurate and inconsistent with the mid tq because of that I believe. The HTIW works great with them though. I still use a good dedicated tq wrench in the end, but the tq bars get me right there. Anyways, I am pretty stoked to see what kind of tech we have in a few more years. I ordered the extended reach m12 fuel 3/8 ratchet. I'm excited to get that one also! Definitely going to change things for me when working on equipment and trucks!

And I agree, I love dewalts ergonomics. Of course now I'm more used to milwaukee. I prefer the pistol grip feel of the m12 fuel tools now. They have a Hogue overmold pistol grip feel to them. Since I'm pretty familiar with those, I really adjusted quickly. Haha! And the m18 grip feels a lot like a nice rubber overmolded magpul MOE grip. Which I ran for 4 years at a previous "job." (I'm not sure if anyone understands any of this. Hopefully you do)
I ran dewalt everything also, up until the 20v max line brushless line came out and immediately started giving me so many problems. About that same time Dewalt let me down big time Customer service wise. In which point I gave the dewalt stuff I didn't replace with milwaukee to my little brother. Man, I still have the old nicad tools from dewalt and they have never skipped a beat. They sit, but still work at least. We also used to have service centers working on these tools in house. Now there are none. And the paperwork and reciepts needed to try to warrant a brand new tool just chapped my arse! I still run some of my favorite 20v tools. The planer, jobsite fan, TS radio, a 996 hammerdrill I use as a mixer, flexvolt 120v miter saws, the little 60v table saws and rear handle saws. Etc. A lot of our corded tools are dewalt too. 10" Jobsite table saws, all of our 10 inch wet saws are dewalt corded. (Please dewalt make a flexvolt and a larger ripping capacity!) Best table saw, and tile saws out still today in my experience. 13 inch planer in the shop, etc... But QC,CS, and warranty is missing the mark for me. And having a business to keep running especially. It just got out of hand. I've heard within the last 6 months, they've decided to focus more on that mark they have been missing. I hope they do. Dewalt used to be #1 to me. Go yellow or go home kind of deal. They need to get back to trying to be number 1 in cordless.
Anyway, back on topic of IW's I never owned anything larger than an old 3/4 Pneumatic impact until I got my FUEL High torque 1 inch. I imagine the high end IW's have a harder hit. In regards to my 1/2"pneumatics, they don't seem to hit harder. They are slower though. So maybe they are hitting harder to do the job. I can't tell tbh. I do know the 1/2 inch fuel HTIW breaks loose what they wouldn't. Which was enough to appease me. If it has a way faster blow that might be the reason it breaks my big sockets. Haven't had that issue with the 1 inch. I'd say because of the arbor size and less material around the smaller anvil.

I thoroughly enjoy tools and man toys. So by all means, everyone keep giving info on your impact experiences. Input, opinions, questions, etc....
Assuming the OP is ok with that!? If not we can chop it at the knees.

Take care!

The attached photo is upper end of what I work on. It weighs about 150,000 lb. I’d be seriously interested to see if I could break a track on one with the 1.5” Milwaukee. Most days a big air impact will struggle with it. I could totally see how a 1” cordless would handle anything a backhoe or skid steer would need. A 345/365 Cat is a very different can of worms.

I like my tools. They allow me to make a living. I like what I do. I’d like to pass that knowledge on.

 

[HomeSteed]

Whoa! A whole different can of worms is correct! Nice! Dad was a large equipment operator foreman for a large outfit here in MO before he went on his own doing lighter excavation. It's easy to see why you need large air and large tools here. Ha!

 

[HomeSteed]

Have you watched anything on cotontop's youtube channel? He's in the logging/heavy machinery business. He does alot of his work with the m18 1 inch HTIW. Last time I saw him use it was getting a 2.5 inch or 3 inch lock type nut off off of a cylinder on a grapple. It was galled pretty bad too. He got her done. It's fairly impressive. Price, size, and convenience wise it's unbeatable for guys like me. In fact overkill in all honesty. But for guys like you and him, it would have to be your call. He's got some big ass air tools also. Alot of equipment, etc. Might check his channel out sometime. Pretty good content in general.

I think the channel is just cotontop3

 

[catbuster]

It is. He’s got some gear for sure, none of it is real big, in comparison to one of my sites where a D6-8 are the dozers and a 336 or 345 is the average size hoe (350 or 450 in the numbering system the rest of the industry uses.)

They look like they do just about the best job possible with what they have. I haven’t seen a whole bunch of his stuff, but one thing that struck me as odd was running some absurdly short bar (like a 20”) on a 395XP. In southern pines.

Anyway, I think we’ve sidetracked this thread enough.

 

[HomeSteed]

Yeah that's some pretty large equipment. Bigger than what most are running around here. Very cool!
I agree, a lot of misinformation went on back in the older days too. When I bought my first new saw, at the time it was recommended I run a 16 inch bar and 20 inch max. That was on my 1st ms361. That thing pulled a 24 inch bar with authority stock. Ported was wearing a 24 regularly. I still hear people recommending 70cc saws to new saw operators looking to cut up some "large firewood." Gotta have no less than 5.5 bhp for a 24 inch bar!
Anyway, good chatting. Hope the OP doesn't mind us keeping the post alive for a good little run.

Take care everyone!

 

[Skeans]

It is. He’s got some gear for sure, none of it is real big, in comparison to one of my sites where a D6-8 are the dozers and a 336 or 345 is the average size hoe (350 or 450 in the numbering system the rest of the industry uses.)

They look like they do just about the best job possible with what they have. I haven’t seen a whole bunch of his stuff, but one thing that struck me as odd was running some absurdly short bar (like a 20”) on a 395XP. In southern pines.

Anyway, I think we’ve sidetracked this thread enough.

Haven’t played with the 1” yet but the 3/4” has surprised the heck out of us in the forestry applications I use it in. 200 class shovel pads haven’t been an issue, the only thing that has given me issues was the headache rack bolts on the forwarder but to be fair the 1” air gun didn’t break them loose either without out some help from the torch. For dewalt stuff the only thing I have is the 20 volt grease gun it’s fine my only complaints are the weight, that pop off valve needs plugged from day one and it’s slow compared to an Almenite or the Milwaukee 18v gun.


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[catbuster]

My biggest issue has always been SALT master links on dozers, track loaders & excavators that spend a lot of time on hills. Those two bolts get abused. That’s where my big 1.5” IR gun comes out. I can get most pads with a half inch gun if I’m persistent.

It may seem odd to some people, but I’ve never owned a set of 3/4” sockets or a gun. It may have been that when I was starting out and was buying things off the MAC Tools truck or Proto/Blackhawk from Southern Tool Supply in my 2002 F-350 I didn’t perceive a need and still have not owned one. When I got into bigger gear we got 1.5” guns and sockets. I figured I’d rather put that into getting diesel tanks and some more tools into crew trucks than that seemingly in between set of tools.

 

[Skeans]

My biggest issue has always been SALT master links on dozers, track loaders & excavators that spend a lot of time on hills. Those two bolts get abused. That’s where my big 1.5” IR gun comes out. I can get most pads with a half inch gun if I’m persistent.

It may seem odd to some people, but I’ve never owned a set of 3/4” sockets or a gun. It may have been that when I was starting out and was buying things off the MAC Tools truck or Proto/Blackhawk from Southern Tool Supply in my 2002 F-350 I didn’t perceive a need and still have not owned one. When I got into bigger gear we got 1.5” guns and sockets. I figured I’d rather put that into getting diesel tanks and some more tools into crew trucks than that seemingly in between set of tools.

Our D4H TSK we got to the where we refuse to use any bolt on master link we’ve had too many pop the bolts off in the past, the shovels and bunchers it’s not even an option just the standard old pin for a master.

Speaking of impacts do you have any exposure to hydraulic style for close quarters>


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[catbuster]

Our D4H TSK we got to the where we refuse to use any bolt on master link we’ve had too many pop the bolts off in the past, the shovels and bunchers it’s not even an option just the standard old pin for a master.

Speaking of impacts do you have any exposure to hydraulic style for close quarters>


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This? (See below) I’ve used Enerpac branded ones for snugging up big nuts on mechanical flanges (why does anyone’s standard spec call for ductile or cast pipe that big anymore anyway?) for years, up to the 8500 ft-lb one that broke a 2” bolt in half. Can’t be beat for tight quarters. Very slim, sockets just slide over the nut and into the housing. The only downside is that you have to have something like an air over hydraulic power source or a specific hydraulic power unit and then hoses for it. But they definitely do hit hard, and are very small for their power.