The Perfect Tree

[kgbtechie]

After just having removed a beautiful tree as I kept spraining my ankle on large roots which were heading for our foundation, I would like to get it right this time. I have a back yard of about 80 by 50' which at this time is naked
I have been given a lot of suggestions what would be good back there as a shade tree and one stood out and I would like to know if there is anything I else that might be better. I live on Long Island off the eastern seaboard of NY. Close to water, but not on it. We had a "Shademaster Honey Locust", I never knew the growing habit would be so bad after 30years it was a nightmare. I was recommended to use a Silver Linden as it tolerates the urban smog, yet still looks nice, neat growing habit, and relatively fast grower.

The second problem I have is we want to plant trees on the strip between the sidewalk and street. We have a 3' meridian which is larger than most. Unfortunately, this is under electric wires. We live in a zone that can get heavy frost as well as snow. On some years we get temperate weather during the winter. I have looked at a lot of different trees, but cannot seem to figure out which ones will fit, yet be pruneable to allow foot traffic under it. I have been given some of these as ideas, Trinity Pear, Prairifire flowering Crab, Purpleleaf Sand Cherry and Hall's Hardy Almond.

Any help you all can give me would be very much appreciated. I have had to cut down more than I have planted due to either mistakes or insect damage. I would like to get it right this time.

 

[treeman45246]

Linden sounds like a fine choice for the backyard, I personally like the crimean linden, but then again, I also love the honeylocust... surface roots are easy enough to cover but it's too late for that.
For the streetscape, I might add a tree to your list of considerations: A Japanese Tree Lilac. They are fairly tolerant of urban conditions, and have a great lilac-like bloom in June, but without the fruiting problems associated with pear and crabapples. They remain a good tree for under wires, and their upright habit keeps the majority of their scaffold limbs out of the way of pedestrian and vehicular traffic. I'll admit that I don't know the almond very well, but I would take a JTL over any of the other contenders... What zone are you in?

 

[kgbtechie]

I am in zone 7 - will it grow there?

 

[treeman45246]

Yes, it goes from zones 3-7. I like the varieties 'Ivory Silk' and 'Regent' here in zone 5/6.

 

[kgbtechie]

How close can you plant the trees? My meridian is 3' by 50' I believe.
Can 2 fit in there? I could not find plant spacing on the sites I looked at to see the tree.

 

[Elmore]

Two words...Dwarf Ginkgoes.

 

[kgbtechie]

dwarf ginkgos

I took a look at some information about the ginkgoes, it seems they are not tolerate of salt. The city salts our streets every winter due to icing. As I want to put these on the curb strip, would it harm them. This last winter we took a pounding from the snow storms, and ice storms. Salt was a big problem, so much so, I had to put boots on my retired racing Greyhound as it burned her feet. They sound like beautiful trees, but I think our highway workers would eventually kill them. They might however, be useful elsewhere on our property. I like the idea of the tree lilac-they dont seem to mind salt as much. The ginkgo I think would be happier in our backyard as I have given up on planting shrubs due to our close neighbors insisting on having vines that end up on my property and destroyed all my shrubs over two years when I was sick. My back neighbor has honeysuckle, and my side neighbor has ivy. Everything died, choked to death by vine Now our yard is almost naked except for blueberries against the house. (Only reason they survived) The ginkgo might be a nice neat tree to plant closer to the house to provide some shade. How close can you get to the house with it? I have a slab house - no basement, small cape type. Gets hot in the backyard as it is the southern exposure and we had to cut down our big honeylocust as it was cracking the foundation. I am sold on the silver linden as a main specimen, but small ones around the house would look really nice. Thanks to both of you for your help, this has been such a problem, and we found that the nurseries are either out to sell something, or don't know as much as they should. I loved my tree, but after recent research I found it was considered envasive in NY-I found the same problem, I have mini trees coming up all over the place. Beautiful, but for small spaces, not practical.

 

[treeman45246]

I would space the trees about 15' apart or so, staying at least 10 feet away from the driveway so that you can see when pulling into traffic. More importantly, I would call your state's underground utility protection cooperative and have the gas, water and sewer lines marked at the curb before deciding where to put the trees in. This may sound like a lot of work, but may save you the heartache of losing your tree 5 years from now, when the gas company decides it's time to replace the main... Stay five feet or more from those lines if at all possible. This may cut you back to one tree in a strip of that size.

 

[kgbtechie]

Utility lines, water etc

Good idea, I would not have thought of that. Only our power lines are above ground, forgot about the stuff below ground. Will call them on Monday to see when they can mark them for me. As I read other posts, I noticed you can put pictures in-so I took a few to get your thoughts. The powerline pole you see in the picture is in line where our sewer line is in the front of the house. I have got to guess it makes a straight line. The in water however, I do not know. I have a cape, the garage is attached with a driveway. There is a very old tree right off the driveway that the power people have been cutting for years. I believe it is 40 years or so old. It was it's double in the back that caused us to buy the house. The original owner had managed to lovingly prune the tree so it provided a canopy for the entire back yard. However, after being in the house (we were 3rd owners) about 2 years, large limbs began to drop and shook the house. We were told it is a neutered cherry. That is all I know. It had major carpenter ant damage in the base of the tree where a secondary base must have been cut a very long time ago. So, 30 years ago we had to have it removed, my children were babies and the limbs were falling fast. It was replace with a shademaster honey locust tree. Which just came down as the roots were working their way into the foundation of our slab house as well as tripping us. Getting back to the front of the house-the first picture is from the driveway toward the strip where I want to plant the Japanese tree lilac you mentioned. #2 is between the pole and the house and number 3 is the pole with the stip in view where we want to plant. #4 is a picture of the neutered cherry as is #5
If you look past the pole in the first picture, you can see that our once tree lined street is no more. All of our neighbors, as they moved in, cut down all the trees, so now our house is in sun all the time. Taking a look at the amount of lawn on both sides of the utility pole, what do you think about getting at least one lilac tree in there if not 2. Providing that the water in and the sewer are in line with the pole.

 

[kgbtechie]

The second set of pictures are of the back-The LIGHT green grass is where the cherry was before it was cut down 30 years ago, and the pile of brown, is where the locust was. Would it be better to plant the Silver Linden over where the cherry was, further away from the house?
#1 is facing east - can see the pile of chips from locust
#2 is facing west - can see same pile
#4 - Light green grass is where cherry was
#5 - You can see both areas from this angle
#6 - Can see how close it is to fence
Should we plant the linden behind where cherry was as it is further from the house?

Last question, how do you protect the small planting as we cannot afford a large sized tree, from being mowed over

Also, I wanted to plant a Norway Spruce where the Smoke bush is in the front as it is the north side-the bush has had heavy damage and half of it died last year.

thank you again for your help

 

[treeman45246]

As far as where to put your linden, I would place it between the honeylocust stump and that of the cherry, or wherever it will look best to you. Is there a view from your window that you love or hate? Place it accordingly. Picture the tree full size if you can. To protect it from the mower, mulch a ring around it so that you don't kill it with a weedeater, and place a large stake there, not for the tree but as a visual deterrant to the person doing the mowing. You can place two JTL in that treelawn.
The Norway Spruce as a replacement for the smoketree - you may want to consider the mature size of the spruce. They get huge. Are you looking for privacy out of the evergreen? Which direction is North?

 

[kgbtechie]

The smoke bush is on the north side of the house as our house faces north. The windows on that side get really cold as the north wind blows. Even with all the insulation it is cold. I was hoping to use it as a wind block of sorts, without being a house block. We are told to keep the greenery next to the house low so people cannot enter your house with no one looking. This, I thought would be wide enough to block, yet still have the height available to it to grow. Eventually our daughter might have a house second floor craned up on top of our first for a mother daughter, so the house will be getting taller. They make them out in a warehouse and bring them in on a flatbed. I don't think the spruce would grow fast enough before the house is done, which would be within 3 years. What about the trees in the front? Our street no longer has many trees due to new owners chopping them down and never replacing them. So, I thought it would look nice and give a little shade in the front.

 

[kgbtechie]

Sorry, I did not realize when I read your post the JTL was the tree I was asking about in my reponse. Thanks you have no idea how I appreciate your help.

 

[phasthound]

Be aware that there is no perfect tree. The Linden is a favorite food of the Japanese Beetle and can be defoliated by them in just a few days. Jap Beetles may not be a problem in LI, so this may not be an issue. If they are a problem, you have to consider having them sprayed at the appropriate time.

I've had several track Greyhounds. They are great dogs!! How old is yours?

 

[kgbtechie]

My greyhound is a tuxedo grey from the NH track. She was a mother's day gift from my children last year. The best thing that has come into my life in a long time. She raced 1 race and they were ready to trash her. Quiet, loving and wonderful. How old are yours? She is 3 years last June, we got her several weeks before her 2nd birthday. :angel:

 

[kgbtechie]

About the mulching-I have seen 2 types that allow water to pass through and maintain a neat area, on1 it Recycled rubber mulch that looks like bark and the other is coco mats mulch. Both let water in and are made for this purpose, have you any ideas on this? We try not to use loose stuff where it can be seen as kids passing by use it to throw. We use the bark under our hostas and planktins as they are covered and close to the house. What are your ideas on this type of mulch?

 

[Elmore]

I took a look at some information about the ginkgoes, it seems they are not tolerate of salt. QUOTE]

Relative sensitivity of common landscape trees

Salt sensitive

Sugar maple
Red maple
European hornbeam
Tulip tree
Hophornbeam
Swamp white oak
Pin oak
Redmond basswood
Littleleaf linden
American linden
Crimean linden
Yew
Douglas-fir
Blue spruce
Canadian hemlock
Norway spruce
White spruce
Eastern white pine


Salt tolerant

Trident maple
Hedge maple
Sycamore maple
Norway maple
Black alder
Hawthorn
Ginkgo
Honeylocust
Goldenraintree
Osage orange
London planetree
Sargent cherry
Callery pear
English oak
Northern red oak
Black locust
Scholar tree
Baldcypress
Black cherry
Black hills spruce