This job pays too little! Looking for advice.

[chainsaw_chomper]

I am an arborist's girlfriend. I'm looking for some opinions or advice. My BF has been doing tree work for 15 years. He currently works for a big-name tree care company and is a crew leader. He is often told that he is the best climber they have in their division, and they get him to teach other climbers the ropes at workshops. My impression is he is very good at what he does. He is paid about $23 an hour. With variability in weather, he often is forced to take days off and this doesn't amount to a whole lot per year. Unfortunately he is a smoker and spends $300 a month on that habit. he has tried quitting and hasn't been able to. His firm offers health insurance but he is unable to afford it or any insurance at all - the cheapest runs to $40 per week.

He sometimes works 10 hour days and weekends because his reps do not do a good job of allocating work to the right number of people. he is too modest and quiet to bring any of this up with his bosses, but it makes me mad. He tells me how frustrated he feels, but never takes it up with them. I have a mind to call them myself (I know, I am an interfering gf, aren't I).

He would love to work a job at an arboretum where he can work on the same trees over the years, but most such jobs require a degree and he has only had high school. I asked him to apply anyway as I thought his experience might be valued, but he refused. I have asked him to speak with a career counsseler to see what his options are but he has not done it. I don't know if we could pay for school for him, but I am a professor at a university and he might be able to get something off of tuition. But the thought of us only living on my salary seems like a huge leap to take when we are not even sure of the prospects after he would get a degree.

Finally, he hates the idea of doing a desk job....really likes being outdoors. I wish there were forester jobs, but those seem to pay even less. he is not very business minded, so I doubt he would try to strike out on his own.

I would be glad to hear any thoughts or advice people have.

 

[IyaMan]

I would say he deserves more, but unless he asks, he isn't gonna get it. I think a good climber would be get about $250-300/day cash, but that's an estimate from what I've heard (a friend of mine was a climber, but that was 10 years ago). If he's also running the crew, maybe it'd be more.

Note that many people here run their own businesses and must need to pay their own climbers/crew chiefs, including in Pennsylvania. Not saying people will be dishonest, but do factor in that they may not wish to set any precedents on compensation levels.

Unfortunately he is a smoker and spends $300 a month on that habit. he has tried quitting and hasn't been able to. His firm offers health insurance but he is unable to afford it or any insurance at all - the cheapest runs to $40 per week.

Ouch! So he spends $70 a week to damage himself, but can't afford $40 to take care of himself. Imagine the boss said this: "We'll give you free health insurance and a dollar more an hour as long as you quit smoking." If that was the case, would he quit? Cause its about the same thing.

 

[DR. P. Proteus]

I am an arborist's girlfriend.


My condolences.

 

[unclemoustache]

Well, maybe I'm looking a little too deep into this, but it seems like you want to change him, and a guy doesn't respond too well to that kind of treatment. If there are that many things about him that bug you, then perhaps you ought to find yourself a different guy, because if he doesn't change for you on his own, then he cares more about himself than about you, and his annoying quirks are only going to wear you out.

 

[BC WetCoast]

If he is working for a big name tree company ie Davey/Bartlett/Asplundh, then perhaps he can apply for a transfer to a division where the weather is conducive to working every day.

I work on the West Coast. Unlike the East, we work every day, rain or shine. If it's raining, you put on your rain gear, swear a bit and get on with it. A culture shock for those coming from the East.

If you want him to make more money, he has to get out of the tree business. $23-25/hr is about max around here unless you are a Cert Utility Arborist working on powerline clearance, where you have to be in the Union (IBEW) and you make $30.

 

[acer-kid]

If he is working for a big name tree company ie Davey/Bartlett/Asplundh, then perhaps he can apply for a transfer to a division where the weather is conducive to working every day.

I work on the West Coast. Unlike the East, we work every day, rain or shine. If it's raining, you put on your rain gear, swear a bit and get on with it. A culture shock for those coming from the East.

If you want him to make more money, he has to get out of the tree business. $23-25/hr is about max around here unless you are a Cert Utility Arborist working on powerline clearance, where you have to be in the Union (IBEW) and you make $30.

Wow... us sissy East coasters make more than that! I wouldn't dream of showing up for 25/hr.

 

[chainsaw_chomper]

Well, maybe I'm looking a little too deep into this, but it seems like you want to change him, and a guy doesn't respond too well to that kind of treatment. If there are that many things about him that bug you, then perhaps you ought to find yourself a different guy, because if he doesn't change for you on his own, then he cares more about himself than about you, and his annoying quirks are only going to wear you out.

Thanks for reminding me of this very important truth. I'm aware of this possibility and I'm now old enough to realize you either accept the other person's habits or end it. The reason I am asking for advice because *he* complains almost daily how little he gets paid for how much he works and the fact that he picks up so much of the slack for his coworkers. Last night he searched on the net "How much do the best climbers make" and later lay in bed asking me - "what other careers could I have?" Since I don't know anything about the intricacies of the work, I'm trying to get a sense of whether he should be asking for more, or whether there is some other career he could pursue with the skills he has and how he could go about doing it. I think he feels frustrated that he has been working at it for 15 years and has earned about the same for the last 10.

Personally, I feel that he earns an about median income and together we earn a very good amount. If we live carefully and frugally, I don't see us having problems. I do see a couple of areas he can improve his spending on and I don't see a problem with pointing these things out. I also have habits that I can cut out on and save money. In fact, he is more of a cheapskate than I am (and proud of it), so I have no hesitation in suggesting ways we can save.

It is true that the health insurance issue bothers me. He refused to get insurance because of the price and because he thinks it's a ripoff (frankly, in the US, it kind of is, along with healthcare costs). Over the winter we both got very very sick with flus that lasted on and off for 3 months. He would get up and go to work everyday with a hacking cough after not having slept most of the night. On weekends where he got two days off, he would recover a little, but not really get over it. I think this period was hard for us to get through and this is what makes me want to help him get paid more/change his job (again! if he wants it, which it seems he does...). Nowadays he has bad allergies, and isn't sleeping well at night and can't see an allergist. It's kind of hard to just stand by and watch. I can't put him on my insurance because we are not married and domestic partners don't count as spouses.

I guess I also want to say that I really really admire him, and what he does. I think that he made a choice to work in an interesting profession (perhaps at the cost of some comfort and a higher pay), but I think its wonderful that he can be outside so much working in the trees that he likes being around so much. I am so proud of him when he tells me about how people ask him for advice on how to cut something down, or how he taught one of the rookies to tie a knot properly to bring a branch down a certain way or how he did a good, clean job for someone, or when he explains with a shoelace how something was tied improperly at another office and resulted in a branch falling through a person's roof . I love hearing him talk about trees, climbing, knots and plants. I love when he quizzes me on the trees in our neighborhood or when we're out hiking . He's a good guy, very kind to me and I just want to explore any possibility I can to help him get to where he wants to be.

 

[chainsaw_chomper]

Wow... us sissy East coasters make more than that! I wouldn't dream of showing up for 25/hr.

Hmm, we are in southeast PA. What are the companies that pay so much?

 

[chainsaw_chomper]

If he is working for a big name tree company ie Davey/Bartlett/Asplundh, then perhaps he can apply for a transfer to a division where the weather is conducive to working every day.

I work on the West Coast. Unlike the East, we work every day, rain or shine. If it's raining, you put on your rain gear, swear a bit and get on with it. A culture shock for those coming from the East.

If you want him to make more money, he has to get out of the tree business. $23-25/hr is about max around here unless you are a Cert Utility Arborist working on powerline clearance, where you have to be in the Union (IBEW) and you make $30.

Yeah....unfortunately moving is difficult for us because of my university job. It's very very stable, but pretty hard to pack up and get a new one. After my postdoc at a UC, I moved to the east coast, but spent 5 years applying for jobs in CA and nothing worked out (and i think I am one of the lucky ones to have a tenure track job at all - a lot of my cohorts gave up). Trust me, if there is someone who is not a sissy about the weather, it's him. I am not sure why they pack up on very rainy days. I know he is fine working in the rain, so I don't know if its the bosses, or the rest of the crew or what. And during winter, work just seems to trickle in, really.

Also, as I clarified above - I don't want him to make more money. The money bothers him and he has said many times he wishes he could earn more - I just want to help him figure out if there is something he can be doing differently. And also, as I said above, I personally think that that salary is not too bad if you live carefully, which we do to a large extent but could be doing better.

 

[chainsaw_chomper]

Ouch! So he spends $70 a week to damage himself, but can't afford $40 to take care of himself. Imagine the boss said this: "We'll give you free health insurance and a dollar more an hour as long as you quit smoking." If that was the case, would he quit? Cause its about the same thing.

He's tried to quit before (before we met). It's difficult and I can understand (even though I don't like the habit). He's been a smoker 20 years now, since he was a teenager, I can't imagine it is at all easy to quit.

 

[ArtB]

doing tree work for 15 years

So about in mid 30's or older ? I'm 70, have not climbed for over 10 years, less than 1/2 the strength I used to have which makes it more dangerous. After 35 everything physical only gets harder every day as I recall, and strength deteriorates more rapidly after 55 or so. Possibly time for BF to get the education you refer to ?

I recall RBTree is not a spring chicken anymore but still climbs, would be interesting to hear his take on the subject.

From the net, university assoc profs pull down $80K year plus. Hard to understand the difficulty in living expenses. Possibly the BF wanting to make more is simply the income disparity is not good for male ego? I've always made more than my wife for the last 49 years, but am enough of a chauvinist to realize that it would be an ego bruise if she made more, but I'd never mention to her. It did not bother me though that she made more when she was working to help me finish school -- possibly relay that aspect to BF ? But of course we were already married and knew it was a lifelong commitment.

 

[chainsaw_chomper]

doing tree work for 15 years

So about in mid 30's or older ? I'm 70, have not climbed for over 10 years, less than 1/2 the strength I used to have which makes it more dangerous. After 35 everything physical only gets harder every day as I recall, and strength deteriorates more rapidly after 55 or so. Possibly time for BF to get the education you refer to ?

I recall RBTree is not a spring chicken anymore but still climbs, would be interesting to hear his take on the subject.

From the net, university assoc profs pull down $80K year plus. Hard to understand the difficulty in living expenses. Possibly the BF wanting to make more is simply the income disparity is not good for male ego? I've always made more than my wife for the last 49 years, but am enough of a chauvinist to realize that it would be an ego bruise if she made more, but I'd never mention to her. It did not bother me though that she made more when she was working to help me finish school -- possibly relay that aspect to BF ? But of course we were already married and knew it was a lifelong commitment.

Yup, exactly, we are both mid-30's. He is very strong now, but I also worry about what will happen when he ages. We are not sure how he will go to school if he is not working. When he finished high school, he decided he was too poor to go to college and now he says he is too poor and too old. In any case, there would be the issue of finding a school where he can learn something that will pay off afterwards *and* not be an indoors desk job. Neither of us wants to take loans, and I think I should be able to afford it, but then money will be quite tight. On the face of it, I think he is happy for me that I earn a good wage, and he is not a chauvinist type at all. But these things are so built into us, and there may be some ego issue re money, but also the last few years after moving a couple of times and buying a car on a loan he says he does not have anything to put into savings these days and this bugs him.

He says he does not want a free ride from me, and he wants to contribute equally to our expenses. We are thinking about purchasing a house and this is making the equation more complicated. At the moment we share expenses but we have not combined finances.

 

[chainsaw_chomper]

What kind of things would be useful to go to school for? ArtB, what did you go to school for?

 

[jefflovstrom]

Yup, exactly, we are both mid-30's. He is very strong now, but I also worry about what will happen when he ages. We are not sure how he will go to school if he is not working. When he finished high school, he decided he was too poor to go to college and now he says he is too poor and too old. In any case, there would be the issue of finding a school where he can learn something that will pay off afterwards *and* not be an indoors desk job. Neither of us wants to take loans, and I think I should be able to afford it, but then money will be quite tight. On the face of it, I think he is happy for me that I earn a good wage, and he is not a chauvinist type at all. But these things are so built into us, and there may be some ego issue re money, but also the last few years after moving a couple of times and buying a car on a loan he says he does not have anything to put into savings these days and this bugs him.

He says he does not want a free ride from me, and he wants to contribute equally to our expenses. We are thinking about purchasing a house and this is making the equation more complicated. At the moment we share expenses but we have not combined finances.

Stay in the business, get certified, go into management,
that is what I did. I started climbing in 1977 and went into management in 2001,
High school diploma is what I got and I do pretty good.
Jeff

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

A 10hr day is a long day?

 

[chainsaw_chomper]

A 10hr day is a long day?

I think it's a matter of perspective. 10 hours of manual labor 6 days a week for little pay seems long. I only have to go into work 3 days a week for 2 hours of teaching each day and the rest of the time I sit on my behind thinking of new science. So I feel a 10 hour workday is long. BF doesn't think it is. Also 10 hours doesn't take into account an hour to get to work and get stuff ready and maybe 1-2 hours to drive back from jobs, put equipment away and drive back home.

In my original question, the reason I mentioned BF's frustration with 10 hr days was because he sometimes has to spend extra time fixing or cleaning his coworkers jobs. Working on his own he often gets the work done in under budgeted time.

If you're leaving home at 6 am and returning tired at 6 pm, when do you have time to contribute to a family? It's more of a general question. We don't plan on having kids, and I can entertain myself, but it doesn't seem like a climber has more than 2-3 hours of downtime if they want to get 8 hours of rest.

 

[chainsaw_chomper]

Stay in the business, get certified, go into management,
that is what I did. I started climbing in 1977 and went into management in 2001,
High school diploma is what I got and I do pretty good.
Jeff

What do you do in management? What is a typical day like?

 

[ArtB]

What kind of things would be useful to go to school for? ArtB, what did you go to school for?

Eye R ann injunear <G>

Logging, etc. is a DIY 'pastime'/hobby, as we have 200ea up to 160 ft tall DFir and maple on our 'city lot' and also have and manage 32 acres of DFir and large alder near St. Helens.
Built our own house (in 'spare time' largely out of trees we felled and built with (40 years ago when we had lots of energy!)

 

[Jed1124]

Good contract climbers around here are getting $400 a day.
That being said you do seem awfully up in his he how......
Just kidding, you must love him so much that you want to change him, no I mean help him and stuff....

 

[BC WetCoast]

The most important class I took in university (have a bachelors in Forestry with a post grad diploma in Forest Engineering) was Accounting for non-commerce students. I've worked in a number of forest companies and engineering consulting firms and most of the technical stuff is done by the new grads. As you become more senior, you start managing projects and working with budgets.

I would suggest he look at some form of business degree/diploma/certificate and parlay that with the technical skills he already has to improve his future. He may not want the desk life now, but one small slip one day can screw up his back/shoulder/knee/hips/neck and he will have to find a non-pysical job.