Tipped bands versus set bands

[Railomatic]

Here is some interesting news

Just recently I have read that here in the UK a lot of the Miser operators have changed over to tipped bands, I found a company locally who manufacture their own tipped, they also have an outlet in New Hamshire USA, and 85% of their UK stock goes to the USA.

After speaking to a few Miser users, I tried one and the results are very promising, I found that the tipped bands lasted many times longer than a conventional band before it needed sharpening.

The down time and sharpening of a tipped band is also cheaper to have done at about half the cost of the old 2" bands I was using, the tipped bands are a little more expensive, but you save lots in the long run, as they can last up to forty times longer than any traditional set band.

Tipped bands have a negative rake tooth which is stronger and more rigid than a positive rake, they handled dirt in the timber and need no setting, now I only need three bands for a days hard work, instead of a dozen.

Are there any other band mill users using tipped bands ?

 

[aggiewoodbutchr]

I've looked into them as well but haven't dropped the $$ to get a few. The data looks good but I can't find anyone in my area that uses them so I can check them out before investing.

 

[FJH]

Here is some interesting news

Just recently I have read that here in the UK a lot of the Miser operators have changed over to tipped bands, I found a company locally who manufacture their own tipped, they also have an outlet in New Hamshire USA, and 85% of their UK stock goes to the USA.

After speaking to a few Miser users, I tried one and the results are very promising, I found that the tipped bands lasted many times longer than a conventional band before it needed sharpening.

The down time and sharpening of a tipped band is also cheaper to have done at about half the cost of the old 2" bands I was using, the tipped bands are a little more expensive, but you save lots in the long run, as they can last up to forty times longer than any traditional set band.

Tipped bands have a negative rake tooth which is stronger and more rigid than a positive rake, they handled dirt in the timber and need no setting, now I only need three bands for a days hard work, instead of a dozen.

Are there any other band mill users using tipped bands ?

I've looked into them as well but haven't dropped the $$ to get a few. The data looks good but I can't find anyone in my area that uses them so I can check them out before investing.

You say they are tiped????
with what????
Carbide?
Stelite???
Wouldn't mind trying one if not too pricey.

 

[infomet]

I've used a hired Woodmizer for about 40K BF of pine and hardwood.
Never used anything like a dozen blades. When I was organized and had the logs ready, we cut about 1500 BF/day on maybe four blades.

Nails and fence wire tend to cause more blade changes!

Amazingly, we cut several bullets! I kept a couple of pieces of wood with the sawn bullets embedded. Looks like .30 calibre. Since there were a couple together in some pieces, I'd say that was target practice.

I'd like to have a link to the tipped blade source.

 

[Husky137]

The debarker is a great option to have on my woodmizer. If the log isn't filled with metal, I can cut all day on one or two blades.

 

[Railomatic]

I've used a hired Woodmizer for about 40K BF of pine and hardwood.
Never used anything like a dozen blades. When I was organized and had the logs ready, we cut about 1500 BF/day on maybe four blades.

Nails and fence wire tend to cause more blade changes!

I'd like to have a link to the tipped blade source.

Please could you tell me what width of lumber you were cutting the most ?

On a good day you can do well using two or three blades all day, if you are cutting full width like my 25 inches you would be doing very well to get by with that amount.

What I mean't by a dozen blade is, six to use and six at the sharpeners.

Since I made my home made mill, I have been cutting mainly wide boards and have found that I needed more set to get the best out of the blade, and the more set you have on a DIY blade the less cutting it seems to do.

Over here in the UK we call a run of the mill blade with set teeth a DIY and a tipped blade a PRO, and the diference between the two is not as much as you think, we pay 45 pounds for the better quality set blades and 75 for a tipped, if you take the companies 40 times longer lasting quote, that is real cheap for the tipped.

Since moving over to the Stellite tipped blades there has been a marked improvement, every tooth cuts on both sides and at the top, there is no set as the tips are slightly wider than the blade itself and the teeth are wider apart, one every 30.00mm, they stay sharper longer even when working with soiled timber, they can stand a certain amount of wire without many problems.

Bennetts do have an outlet in New Hampshire USA, but I don't have those contact details, if you contacted them they would give you this information I'm sure, their web-site is http://www.bennett-saws.co.uk/bandsaw.html

The blades I bought are the smallest bands they make at 65.00mm or 2-1/2" wide, and they keep the 13' 2" miser blades on the shelf.

I think tipped is the way to go, you get a smaller curf and a more agressive faster cut, the finish isn't bad either, sharpening is a lot cheaper than set bands too.

I have been to their factory for a guided tour, before they sharpen a blade, it is put through a special machine which takes all the dings and high spots out of the blade, this machine cost in excess of £180,0000 Sterling, using lasers to map out the surface before smoothing things out, in other words the blade is put back to its original shape, every time, which means a longer life.

They tell me that most of the mills in the USA, are still using swadged or set bands and tipped blades haven't caught on like here in the UK, remember that old steam powered mill I posted, some of the blades I saw on the tour day dwarfed their blade by three times, nice old mill though.

 

[Railomatic]

Super HPG bandsaw blades

Here is the latest bandsaw mill blade technology from the UK's biggest dealer and in house manufacturer.
http://www.ernestbennett.co.uk/superhpg.htm

 

[FJH]

Here is the latest bandsaw mill blade technology from the UK's biggest dealer and in house manufacturer.
http://www.ernestbennett.co.uk/superhpg.htm

Well i would like to find somone here that I could buy from trouble is I'd have to have it sharpened at some point!The guy that does my blades now dosent like to do anything out of the ordanary his machine is set for the most standard blades wood mizer and the like and dosent like to think out of the box.His thought is if stelite ,carbide and the like was that good the big mills in the area would have tried by now and been using it ,yet they are still using bacic bands.Nothing fancy.For my self If I can cut all day with out a change out and were able to sharpen for aprox same cost it would be an aset to me.

 

[FJH]

Mill pictures as promised

Here are the mill pictures as promised
Enjoy

 

[Railomatic]

Some reasons why I changed to tipped blades

His thought is if stelite ,carbide and the like was that good the big mills in the area would have tried by now and been using it ,yet they are still using bacic bands.Nothing fancy.For my self If I can cut all day with out a change out and were able to sharpen for aprox same cost it would be an aset to me.

Technology moves on, today nearly all circular saws are tipped in one way or another, when they never used to be, wheather band blades in the US will follow suit, I think depends upon demand.

Here in the UK band technology is far in advance than a lot of places in the world, this is a fact I have learned since getting my tipped blades.

After using normal blades I soon learned the drawbacks involved, this is the reason why I looked hard and fast to find something else.

I thought if the circular saw market was way in advance of the normal band blade, there must be something in the band world which was similar.

Stellite tipped blades; are available in the US and catching on all be it rather slowly, the benefits are much greater, with a much higher return between services, some blades lasting up to 40 hours work between services.

Saw doctors sharpening conventional blades today are unlikely to be able to sharpen stellite because the machines are CNC controlled with diamond cutters, and cost the earth, but I have been told by Bennetts of Darlington in the UK, that there are companies in the US who are making these blades, they mentioned Simmons, who also make the CNC machines.

Like any band it is going to need sharpening at some point, if a tipped band is going to last dramatically longer then surely its worth loking into, even if it means shipping costs, if you buy enough to last while the rest are being serviced, the cost would even themselves out.

 

[Railomatic]

Here is a couple of close-ups of my tipped band and the guides, I have fitted a check set of bearings underneath the main bearing guides on the sliding adjustable side of the mill, what a difference this has made, I can now go nearly as fas as I like, within reason, without the blade moving off line.

I have set the check bearings so that it has 1.00mm deflection on the back side, this keeps the blade straight and true in the cutting mouth area, no more drumming of the blade which can cause problems.

I have the guides slightly lower that the bottom of the wheels, this gives the band a rest, because you don't need to have the band so tight, this gives better reliability, no more broken or damaged bands, which means they will last out before throwing them away.

 

[FJH]

What stops the band from moving back?
I will take picts of my origanal guide and show you what I was doing ,very simular I changed because I was having bearing failure every 6-8 huors running time the bearings were to small and also I use water to keep pitch from the blade and wheels
with the cooks rollers I'm able to gease em every couple of hours no problems as yet!
What I don't care for with the bottom roller is it limits your lower cut to what ever the bearing size is!I toyed with the idea but dismisted it for that reason!The cooks bearing I beleive can be fitted with a lower control jaw I may go that route at some point.

http://www.cookssaw.com/shop/

http://photoshare.shaw.ca/messages/viewthumb/7685589643-1173493584-67337/preview/page/1/15/

 

[Railomatic]

What stops the band from moving back?
I will take picts of my origanal guide and show you what I was doing ,very simular I changed because I was having bearing failure every 6-8 huors running time the bearings were to small and also I use water to keep pitch from the blade and wheels
with the cooks rollers I'm able to gease em every couple of hours no problems as yet!
What I don't care for with the bottom roller is it limits your lower cut to what ever the bearing size is!I toyed with the idea but dismisted it for that reason!The cooks bearing I beleive can be fitted with a lower control jaw I may go that route at some point.





There are two back bearings fitted as thrusts,(see picture) these last a lot longer than 8 hours, should last about 3 months on average, did you know that you can remove the small seals from either end of a sealed bearing using a small fine pointed craft knife, pack them and replace the seals again, only take a couple of minuites.

You need to pack any new bearing with grease, because I have found that all new bearings have very little to no lube inside them, my thrust bearings are 6201's about an inch and a 1/4 in dia, I can pull out the R clip on all my bearings shafts and fit another in seconds, the R clips have never come loose.

My minimum cut is one inch, the checker bearing underneath doesn't get in the way, I find that this covers all eventualities, if I need thinner boards, I simply take the thiner cuts from the top of the log, or place the 1 inch board on top of another and cut it thinner, it all works out fine.

 

[FJH]

Railomatic;615792]

yup I found that too , even tried moly grease in em!the water must be the killer!The bearings start humming after 45 hours of operation I was useing 6203 bearings!
apears to be a 16 - 18 inch log your cutting there Id do a bout 4 f to 6ft a minute in that in fir!

 

[Railomatic]

Railomatic;615792]

yup I found that too , even tried moly grease in em!the water must be the killer!The bearings start humming after 45 hours of operation I was useing 6203 bearings!
apears to be a 16 - 18 inch log your cutting there Id do a bout 4 f to 6ft a minute in that in fir!

I keep the water to a mimimum, I don't use any detergent because this just dilutes the greese, and I only spray manually when the resin starts to build up and just enough to soften it for the scrapers to remove it.

I also drilled the middle of the shaft so that I can use a gun to flush out the
bearings, take one seal out and replace it with a big flat washer so the grease can flow out through the gap, grease every day and things last a lot longer.

With my tipped bands I can cut up to around twenty feet a minute in an 18 inch logs, depending on type, 24" logs take a litle longer.

The bands are a tooth every 1"-1/4 positive rake, tipped with stellite, which will go for over thirty hours before changing them, they will do 40 hours a piece but that makes more material to be removed to get them back to cutting quality, tipped bands are definately the way to go.

 

[FJH]

Sounds like the blades are the answer alright.

 

[aggiewoodbutchr]

Just wanted to throw this in here...

I finally bought a carbide tipped band, a Lenox Trimaster, for my Grizzly 14" bandsaw w/ riser block. I put it through some heavy use last night cutting out bowl blanks from green figured pecan. I would have never imagined resawing at max capacity (12") on that little bandsaw would have ever been so easy, but it was. I had to keep the feed rate down, not because of bogging the motor, but it would cut so fast the sawdust would clog the kerf and gullets.

I also tried it on some dry wood and the results were equally impressive. The tooth design is a bit too aggressive for really hard stock so the feed rate was critical. However, I was able to repeatedly cut material I couldn't even touch before with carbon steel blades.

In my opinion, they ARE worth the money and I will buy another in the future. I'll probably put one on the bandmill as well.

 

[FJH]

Having said you'd buy one for your band mill!

Is there some one that will sharpen it for you once it does get dull!?

 

[aggiewoodbutchr]

Is there some one that will sharpen it for you once it does get dull!?

From what I've read, some manufacturers (ex. Lenox) claim that the band will break from fatigue before the tips go dull provided you don't hit rocks or metal. In the event you do find some foreign material (which you eventually will), the manufacturers can re-tip and sharpen a band if it's not damaged beyond the point of economical repair.

 

[Andy Harden]

Just wanted to throw this in here...

In my opinion, they ARE worth the money and I will buy another in the future. I'll probably put one on the bandmill as well.

aggie, where do I find prices for bandmill blades? I use 1 1/2, 1 inch pitch blades 19 ft long.:hmm3grin2orange:

Andy