Tophandle - Stihl 194T ?

[RalphE]

Hello cutters -

I'm a Colorado mountain foothills homeowner pondering a climbing saw (194T?). With el Nino it's bone dry so far this winter and the canyons to the north and south have burned thru in the last years and there's no reason that my little acre hasn't burned thru yet, so another push on fuel reduction is due.

I ain't no arborist tho have a 14" DBH Ponderosa to take down that's bridging crowns to the house. My regular saw is a MS 362 / 25" bar / wrap handle and it's been barely sufficient. I bought that saw unused from a pawn shop at a fabulous price, and looking on fleabay for another unused saw. I have far too many projects going to bother with refurbishing a saw. After I take down that tree, that top-handle will only get sporadic use.

Here's the question! Bar size: Can I get away with a MS194T 12" bar (bargain buy, less drag, bury up to the puppies without snagging rope), or if that's penny-foolish and if 14" is right. Sure a 200T/201T has less plastic... but it'll just get used a few days a year, and I baby tools. I use a Timberline sharpener with a 13/64" reamer and want to keep everything the same size.

I'll also be thinning my woods by about 25% to open crown spacing... it's a ton of work and will hire out winching / chipping. I'm a volunteer firefighter and took S212 years ago, and have a art-of-falling fire buddy to get me back up to speed. I've rock climbed for 30 years... including A5 desert tower aiding, so am peachy-keen with climbing and my take-down will look different than yours but will catch just fine.

 

[old CB]

Not sure exactly what you're asking. I think you want to know if a 12" bar will be sufficient on that saw. I would think so. It would be a rare limb you'd be cutting in your woods that such a bar won't handle, and if you do have a super-sized Pondo limb, merely haul a bigger saw up to cut it.

It sounds like I'm your neighbor--l'm uphill from Boulder. As a commercial sawyer I have two 200T saws, both with 14" bar. But doubt I've ever needed the entire bar.

Hope that's helpful.

 

[RalphE]

Yes thanks, wondering if 12" is an okay choice vs. 14", and if the 194T is ok too. I'll be using it on the main trunk / bole for taking trees down in sections.

And yes, I'm in Pine Brook, a few miles up from Boulder.

 

[old CB]

I have a 16" bar & chain that I removed from a 200t hanging on the wall in my shop. I'll never use it. Would let it go cheap if you feel the need. I'm in Sugarloaf.

 

[old CB]

Pine Brook--boy you had an exciting Saturday afternoon back in October. We watched that thing blow up and roar to the east. There was no hope for anything in the path of that fire.

 

[RalphE]

Does that mean that you found 16" too big for climbing?
I'm still a little nervous about "only" 12" but maybe I should embrace it over 14"? And go bargain.

Well, Sugarloaf burned bigger in 2010? Lefthand has burned a few times. My sawyer class was up at Calwood. We've caught countless fires while they're still small. Our turn is coming? So we try to do some the same with saw & sweat.

 

[old CB]

I don't remember exactly why I removed the 16" except that I knew it was longer than I'd need, more teeth I didn't need to file, and yes, probably more saw to maneuver with in the canopy. No matter what you carry up there, it'll catch, hang up, or get in the way somehow.

 

[1hp]

my 193 pulls a 16 ok. mostly soft wood here though. this was only cottonwood.

 

[RalphE]

Suppose I could save the money and just use my folding Silky saw... just for one tree so far. The saw that always starts!

 

[TNsawman]

13/64 is a bit big for that little chain on a climbing saw especially if it is .043 gauge, which has very poor cutting performance with the tip of the bar (if that matters to you).

 

[RalphE]

Ah... I see now, a PM chain = 5/32 file..... another thing to buy! They only make the low-kickback kind with the protruding hump (whatever it's called) on the drive link?

Still wavering between 12" and 14" bar.......

 

[TNsawman]

Other than balance, and what the saw is powerful enough to run, it really comes down to what kind of reach you need. What diameter of wood are you cutting? Can you use your bigger saw if needed? I tend to use shorter bars, and grab a bigger stronger saw if needed rather than cooking an engine in slow long cuts bigger than what the saw is generally used for. But, for occasional cuts like chunking down a tree on a budget, I might even get a 16" if I though it would make the job easier. It is a few more inches of up close danger to worry about though. I'd go with the narrower .043 gauge chain if you did get a 14-16" bar as I've known the 193t to be low on power.

 

[esean]

If you're not stuck on Stihl, consider an Echo 355T. Less $$, a hair heavier, but lots more power. Pulls 14" 3/8 picco just fine. Stihl PS would be my chain of choice, but the stock Oregon cuts fine.

 

[Cliff R]

+2 on the Echo CS-355T. I recently added one to my line-up, very impressive little saw and you have to look down once in a while to know you're not cutting with a 200T.

I have a 14 and 16" bar for mine and it pulls either one with good authority at this altitude in hardwood.......

 

[RalphE]

I'll take a look for a Echo CS-355T 14-incher too! Stihl PS chain or ???

 

[Cliff R]

They come with 3/8" LP, excellent chain for use on a top handle saw....

 

[RalphE]

Thank you, thank you, than you! I found a local dealer who had all the options on display, and scratched the MS194T off the list in favor of the CS-355T. But something put me off from the CS-355T and that was the seemingly flimsy attachment of the Chain Brake Hand Guard lever; that the lever pivots at one middle attachment point with another minor pivot on the right side. Compared to the Stihl models with pivot attachments at the far ends of the handle, I wondered if that wobble was a telltale warning. It's the only evidence I had to go on without the chance to use them. Otherwise the Echo seems to fit my needs. My fire chief turned me down using the department discount, so Stihl 201T remains pricey.

All the 14" bar saws had an actual cut depth of 13"... just barely enough for takedown of my pines. The choice between 14" and 16" might be splitting hairs, the 14" being a perfect fit most of the time, with some double cuts necessary on the rare occasion, versus the more awkward handling of the longer 16". Guess I like to get the purchase right the first time!

 

[Harmon]

I had the chance to run a CS-355t this past summer and was impressed - always started, idled, real snappy acceleration and felt pretty well put together. The top handle was big enough to use left handed with winter gloves on which is more than you can say for the stihl top handles. It was a used saw when we got it, but in good shape. Compared to a 201t, it was not the saw for blocking down large stems (as in, larger than the bar) but compared to a 194t it seems like a much better deal for the price new off the shelf.

The thing i really didn't like was the teeny tiny handle on the pull start - definitely had the crew laughing at me the few times i lost the handle and punched myself in the trachea.

 

[sean donato]

I had the chance to run a CS-355t this past summer and was impressed - always started, idled, real snappy acceleration and felt pretty well put together. The top handle was big enough to use left handed with winter gloves on which is more than you can say for the stihl top handles. It was a used saw when we got it, but in good shape. Compared to a 201t, it was not the saw for blocking down large stems (as in, larger than the bar) but compared to a 194t it seems like a much better deal for the price new off the shelf.

The thing i really didn't like was the teeny tiny handle on the pull start - definitely had the crew laughing at me the few times i lost the handle and punched myself in the trachea.

FWIW I own a 192tc. My neighbor got a echo 355t. It's a wonderful saw to use in a tree. I'll likely spring for one when my 192tc is totally shot, or I'm sick of fixing it. His has a 14" b/c on it, amd no issues in oak bar buried.

 

[TNsawman]

I'm not a huge fan of the way Echo top handles only support the brake handle on one side, it make it harder to reset. Otherwise the 355 is strong for the money, probably not as durable if dropped (don't drop any saw), but parts may be cheaper. Echos don't have compensators on the carb, so they are more sensitive to tuning, and tend to be set lean from the factory, at least for winter use. The adjustment limiters will have to be removed to go any richer.