Topping my Sugar Maple

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Rosechuk

ArboristSite Lurker
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Location
Wellsboro PA
Sorry if this post is too long...I am looking for some advice about this big old gnarly beautiful sugar maple in my front yard:

DSC_0286_sm.jpg


It may not look like it in the picture, but this is a pretty massive tree...the trunk is probably about 4-5 feet in diameter. This tree appears healthy overall, but it does have some big central areas of rot which start in the middle of the trunk and travel WAY the heck of the tree along a visible fissure up the main left leaning central part of the tree. This section leans right towards my house, of course. The tree appears strong, and withstood a pretty heavy ice and snow storm last year while it was still fully holding all it's leaves, but this large wing of the tree makes me very nervous.

I have a neighborhood tree climber & logger guy, who is a super nice fellow and stops by from time to time. We have been looking at this tree together over the past year and he is always scaring me about needing to do something about the tree and how this main major section is leaning right towards the house and "hinging" right on this central rotted area of the tree. He proposed that he cut the main "left" leaning branch of this tree about 3 or 4 feet above the first main crotch (visible in the photo about halfway up) and "dome" the tree around this height. He said this will eliminate all of this dangerous weight in the tree and that the tree will recover fine from this.

From the little I have read about this kind of thing, it seems that topping is a terrible idea, so I wanted to get a second opinion. I called another tree person randomly from the phone book who came by and looked at it while I was not here but called and said that he thought I should leave it alone and just have good home insurance (which I do). Still this advice was not very reassuring. I stopped in at the Dept of Forestry and a guy from there came out to look at it. He said that removing some dead wood stumps from it would be a good idea, but that I should also not cut it back so severely. I think that is what I wanted to hear, and so I did not ask him much more about it, but later in the day, the neighborhood tree guy came back and scared the bejeesus about of me again, pointing out all of these rotten spots and plants growing, and squirrel holes, etc etc. Now, I do not think this guy is trying to get money out of me or anything–I think he is honestly advising me to do what he thinks would be best. I asked him about just taking some dead wood out of the tree and he said he would do what I wanted, but thought that would be a waste of money and that for not much more money he would be able to eliminate my problem entirely.

What do you all think about this? Is topping this tree just a terrible idea that will cause lots more problems? Is this guy crazy? Could removing just the one big house leaning section be a good idea? I really don't know what to do here...but this guy really is persuasive when he talks about it.

Thanks for any advice!
 
I also agree with the Forrestry guy. Topping it and cutting it back severely may eliminate what might be a hazard to your house but will likely hasten the demise of this tree - while making it look terrible.

The tree is fighting to survive. Look for a certified arborist who can advise on things that will benefit the tree - like maybe a large mulch ring instead of the grass that competes for nutrients.
 
I wouldn't do anything but get the dead limbs and such out, just clean it up....if you're concerned about it falling on the house then move the house.........
















lol...J/K......
 
If the decayed areas trouble you, find out about them--how deep, how wide, how soft, how much reaction wood around them?

I also agree with the forestry guy. Typicaly I reduce compromised limbs a little not a lot. 15% off the end can increase stability by 50%.

"Dome" the tree? :monkey: So that is the latest euphemism for a roundover cut--Do NOT allow this to ruin your tree. Hire your neighbor to crown clean aka deadwood the tree and assess the decayed areas. Give him a camera and post the pics here, then let the good times roll!

:cheers:
 
Thanks a lot. That is good advice. I like the idea of him taking some photos while he is up in the tree.

BTW, I am posting a few more pictures I have from other angles just in case they are useful to see.

DSC_0288_sm.jpg

DSC_0289_sm.jpg

DSC_0290_sm.jpg


Thanks again everybody!
 
Is the neighbor who suggested "doming" going to climb with spikes or without? I'd want to know that, before I sent him up the tree after deadwood......
 
Pardon my ignorance, but what is the red flag exactly? Are spikes really bad for the tree? (I imagine they can't be good!)
 
Well it sure sounds like I should not take advice from this guy. He sure talks like he knows what he is talking about. Thanks for trying to educate me!
 
Now that I think about it, he did express hesitance to spike the tree, and he may have only been talking about using spikes in the upper sections he was talking about "doming" off...where presumably it would "not matter" (or at least the tree would have other problems to worry about).
 
Your decisions here will boil down to how much risk you're willing to accept. But until you know how much risk you are dealing with, anything you have done (other than deadwooding) is probably a knee jerk reaction to real or perceived fear.

treeseer said:
If the decayed areas trouble you, find out about them--how deep, how wide, how soft, how much reaction wood around them?

I also agree with the forestry guy. Typicaly I reduce compromised limbs a little not a lot. 15% off the end can increase stability by 50%.

"Dome" the tree? So that is the latest euphemism for a roundover cut--Do NOT allow this to ruin your tree. Hire your neighbor to crown clean aka deadwood the tree and assess the decayed areas. Give him a camera and post the pics here, then let the good times roll!

Good advice here, and as long as your neighbor is willing to get/use the proper gear so he does NOT use climbing spikes for ANY PART of the climbing. Make sure he clearly understand that he's only taking deadwood and documenting decay/faults for more analysis and decision making.

Now that I think about it, he did express hesitance to spike the tree, and he may have only been talking about using spikes in the upper sections he was talking about "doming" off...where presumably it would "not matter" (or at least the tree would have other problems to worry about).

Sounds like he's aware that spikes are harmful during trimming, but just doesn't know exactly how to do the job with out them. Maybe giving him a heads up about this site could help another spiker progress to spikeless. And he'd likely learn alot more about proper tree care in the process.

I'd wager that his original plan of rounding it over while wearing spikes would have killed it, or at least made removal necessary in less than a decade. Mature trees are fairly intolerant of harsh trimming.
 
maple tree

It's not a salvation issue just take the tree out and replant. It's not worth the worry or the $ to keep it.
 
well, its such a nice tree. I guess that will ultimately have to happen though. From the pictures and description, you think that is the best thing to do, or just the safest, easiest option?
 
"It's not a salvation issue"

Right; it is merely a retention issue--we do not know the tree is in any jeopardy and needs "saving". It is definitely a salivation issue, as removalist/"domers", in their lust for saw dust, salivate over the the rigging challenges and money. Or else it's just overreacting to a bad spot and not knowing the better alternatives, as ddh points out.

"just take the tree out and replant. It's not worth the worry or the $ to keep it."

How much would this work cost? How is pruning more expensive than removing? LESS than the replacement cost of the tree. Do the math.

:notrolls2:
 
feeding trolls

"It's not a salvation issue"

Right; it is merely a retention issue--we do not know the tree is in any jeopardy and needs "saving". It is definitely a salivation issue, as removalist/"domers", in their lust for saw dust, salivate over the the rigging challenges and money. Or else it's just overreacting to a bad spot and not knowing the better alternatives, as ddh points out.

"just take the tree out and replant. It's not worth the worry or the $ to keep it."

How much would this work cost? How is pruning more expensive than removing? LESS than the replacement cost of the tree. Do the math.

:notrolls2:
ok, I'll stop throwing you crackers.....lol...
 
Don't hire someone who constantly knocks on your door , if he's there than he probably has nothing else too do because he's an ###hole who ####'s #### up , and why is he so concerned about your tree ? Tell him to go "dome" someone elses tree ....
 
I hear you about him knocking on my door looking for work. I mean, that is exactly what he has done. However, I do honestly think that he is trying to help–I dont think he is just after money. I could be wrong, of course.
 

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