training pics

[heartland]

At the risk of being severely ridiculed, here are some pics from the ArborMaster training I attended last week in College Station, TX. This was the first time I "blocked down" a bigger tree.

blocking down

There are 5 pics. You will note the following:

-tired climber
-block connected via cow hitch w/better half
-rigging knots: half hitch w/ running bowline
-rigging line: 5/8" stable braid
-lifeline: 1/2" orange streak
-borecut

I have an mpeg of the piece going over, but not sure how to post it.

I'm glad to have the pics as they provide good review material. Amongst other things, I see how my body/cutting position could be improved....

btw - this was a 50' Post Oak that had died about 6 months ago.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Very nice show, have been thinking of such things myself!

i might suggest 'marling' (?) cuts in the side for the first half hitch in the load to immediately be restricted by. Since you end up tieing in with lifeline right before backcut for 2nd/ failsafe support; why not do it earllier, even if you end up with 3 supports for a while.

i always like the line support off the load, especially for cutting face. i usually use a rigging line (not using it as only support, only help) and bring it up over the top, then serve it down the face side. After i use and disconnect from the line, i can have the guys pull on it (it is in most secure,braced position offering best leverage and the increased downward pressure on the hinge can make it hang on longer), this can make sure it goes to target and not to climber. But also if the backcut is carefully proceeded on, the line tension can be used to flex the hinge over with more fiber to hold on longer before free falling into the rigging. The most controllable part of force i see is not to let it build through accleeration (save cutting it smaller or untethered). So resultant force can be reduced hugely through reducing freefall distance previous to being caught by rig. If the tear off of the hinge can be stalled off from 1o'clock (from 12 vertical) to 3o'clock+, the force can be reduced by the amount of accleleration from the reduction in the freefall distance of the C.o.B. not the butt, so the numbers are real diffrences, increasing with length.

Less force, twangs the climber less, tests the line, knots, blocks, Porty's, slings, Karabs, groundies, spurs, awareness etc. less, offering more forgiveness to all.

But, all that is jsut IMH,AO, so no sweat, nice job!

 

[treeclimber165]

Some nice shots there, Tim. I hate to admit it, but roping down a spar like that gives me the heebie-jeebies. There's just something unnatural about it for me. I will coordinate the removal differently so that I can rope down most of the spar while there is still brush attached, and either chunk down the remaining spar in 2'-5' pieces or come to the ground and drop the spar.

Having the ability to rope down 20' lengths of wood off of itself with you tied in above the block is quite a talent. I'm always afraid I'll get flicked off like a dirty booger.

 

[Kevin]

Nice job Tim; I would opt for the marline as well.
What difficulties did you experience while performing this task and how do you like those little D's on a working belt?

 

[monkeypuzzle]

Stay away from knots in the wood,make the face cut above or below the knot. The wood is supper hard. Swap hands on the saw or go to other side of tree for better cutting control.Hey, if it works use it right. I forget sometimes to slow down,but I am a speed freak and like to get done ASAP.Cool pics

 

[murphy4trees]

Nice job Tim,
And a good teaching piece for those here at AS...
Holding that saw at shoulder level is pretty ackward.. especially when bore cutting... Did you use a back (strap) release or just start with a bore and move the saw back and around to finish the backcut???
I like to keep either my choked life line or my lanyard just below the sling, so there is no chance of getting bugger flung from the spar. Did the AM folks teach you to keep both above the sling???
Keeping one or both below the sling allows the notch to be lowerred to just above the sling, which reduces the distance the chunck falls, and thus reduces the force on the rigging. However if you do put your lanyard below the sling you could be trapped in place until the weight is off the block...

So thanks again for the pics and would you please share any thoughts you have about the AM training... Was it worth the time and money.. did you learn a lot?? etc..
Thanks and God Bless,
Daniel

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Daniel, there is a theory/princilple that the fall is the same, kinda an elusive conceptulaized deal of the the late Pete Donezelli(sp.?).

i think that both life connections above is safer, as that is away from the machinery works of the folding of the hinge and running of the line. The block snapping down can cut the line lifeline/lanyard, as well as the the running rigging line, so unless that life support line is in an extremely protected area under the rigg; i wouldn't use it for my failsafe 2 count while cutting.

Nice call on the ergonomics of positioning a bigger (or any saw)when cutting for better control, safety with less fatigue.

As well as i missed the knot in wood point, as far as resistance to cutting, and unwavering fiber flow in critical hinge machinery in the picture set; but hopefully not in actual practice!

This is some of the most dangerous positioning/rigging/cutting i think, that tests all of your talents, timing, line lacing, setting, gear, groundies and control...... as well as spicnters! If Bri steps up and says he is wary of it (as i will too); i'd say it is non-novice territory fairly; and first tries should be coached, probably in non critical situations; and as always, preferably tied into another support than the rigging point (host spar).

K{no}w Fear,
and let Know-ledge Replace it!
(Sorry Bri, won of my favorites...........)

and since i first saw it and ever since; i must agree;
That Peace,
is Patriotic too!

 

[murphy4trees]

Donnezelli's point

Spidy and all,
Donezelli's point is that the overall force of a chunk falling into a rig is determined by the weight of the chunck factorred into the distance fallen... That distance fallen is to be measured from center of balance (CoB) at start to CoB at finish.... Therefore the placement of the half hitches (relative to the block) tied to the chunck will not effect the fall of the chunnk as long as they are below the CoB..... However the placement of the notch above the block will effect the distance the CoB travels.... This is a crucial distinction to make when calculating forces involved in rigging down a spar.. especially with big wood. That's why I like my notch as close to the sling as possible... Another reason for putting life support below the sling.
As far as the block cutting a life support line.. now that is a point that is worth discussing... If the ropes are set properly there should be no chance of any weight coming onto the block until it is well below the life support lines. However as we all know... funny things can happen when cutting trees... So I'd like to hear other thoughts on the matter.. I believe Mark Chisholm teaches to put one or both lines below the sling... If I get a chance I'll take a look at some slow motion replays of the block's movement when rigging down a spar.
God Bless All,
Daniel

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Nice pictures, and well presented, thank you.

I like to have one life line above and one below. If both are above, they are both subect to whatever causes them to fail, wether it booger flicking or accidental cutting. If both are below, then again, they are both subject to the possible problems associated with being below the block, like the sling slinding down, rope burning, or pulley interference.
With one rope above and one below, in the event that one of the problems occurs, it will only happen to one of the life lines, leaving the other to save your a$$.

I'm curious how you recovered your climbing line from way up on the spar, once you were ready to do the backcut.

 

[heartland]

Originally posted by Kevin
What difficulties did you experience while performing this task and how do you like those little D's on a working belt?

There are times when I wish they were bigger, but for the most part it is ok.

 

[heartland]

Originally posted by murphy4trees
Nice job Tim,
Did you use a back (strap) release or just start with a bore and move the saw back and around to finish the backcut???

I use a back strap whenever possible... and cut it with my handsaw. If for no other reason, it is just safer to be making that last cut without a running saw in your hands.

I like to keep either my choked life line or my lanyard just below the sling, so there is no chance of getting bugger flung from the spar. Did the AM folks teach you to keep both above the sling???

AM teaches to keep all lifeline and lanyard *above* rigging point. They are real big on that.

So thanks again for the pics and would you please share any thoughts you have about the AM training... Was it worth the time and money.. did you learn a lot?? etc..

I've been to four of the AM training sessions:
-Climbing
-Chainsaw
-Rigging I
-Rigging II

All have been worth their weight in gold. Well worth every bit of time and money. Also get to rub shoulders with other people in the business and learn new things from them. 85% of our time was spent on projects: lots of practical training.

 

[heartland]

Originally posted by monkeypuzzle
Stay away from knots in the wood,make the face cut above or below the knot. The wood is supper hard. Swap hands on the saw or go to other side of tree for better cutting control.Hey, if it works use it right. I forget sometimes to slow down,but I am a speed freak and like to get done ASAP.Cool pics

I hear you on the knots. I tried to stay above the one in the pic. One thing I learned on that one for sure is to position myself higher and further away in order to get better angle and reduce fatigue. You can't tell from the pic, but by the time I was done with that bore cut I was completely covered with chips... the dust was making me choke

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

i've wondered about that same effect with the notch Daniel, just re-Peteing what i thought was said before on that. Thanks for defining that. i tend to pack the lines so tightly together if i have to, i beleive there is no loss of

Mike's point is well made. i too generally beleieve the D system, lines and anchor point on each of the 2 FailSafe tie ins should be seperate. On a perfectly vertical, smooth spar, without cutting cutting a protective double kerf to lay a line in that could be tough, this telephone pole scenario imagery is that which i was directly addressing without complications. Usually sight out a lean, pocket under spar knot/swell that is mechanically protected from either of the hazards of steel block slicing down into line, running line friction, or load grabbing. Another positive aspect is that, that places a line below the loaded support on the spar in weaker/ questionable tops.

Very good discussion, i am rating it a 5, so that it will stick out to be refrenced by myself and others. Kinda reminds me to review a few of the other choicest threads and do the same; as i have let that slide awhile.

 

[heartland]

Originally posted by Mike Maas
I'm curious how you recovered your climbing line from way up on the spar, once you were ready to do the backcut.

Mike - the pics don't show it, but there was actually a really long tail on that running bowline. All I had todo was pull on it to bring it down.

Interesting to know this too. Part of the AM training on this blocking stuff was how to get out of the tree (assuming you are leaving a tall spar for felling once on the ground). Of course, you could leave the running bowline with a tail long enough to reach the ground. But, another cool way was the following:
-tie in with your lanyard or other fixed positioning system
-leave your friction hitch attached to the climbing line
-remove the running bowline
-wrap tail of climbing line around the spar
-pass tail of climbing line down to the ground (this will be used to remove the system once on the gound)
-make a mid-line knot (we used butterfly) at the TIP
-attach biner to midline knot, then back to climbing line, above friction hitch
-cinch things up around the spar and you are ready to decend

From there, you can either decend on your friction hitch or add an 8 and then decend. This system is easily remove by pulling on the tail. It is similar in fashion to the running bowline with long tail but was easier to remove simply because there was less friction at the TIP (due to the biner).

 

[Jumper]

Neat pics! and not worthy of ridicule IMHO. You look like you were having fun! Hopefully the tree was not all dried out or rotten, it has been my experience dancing out of the way of this stuff on the ground that larger chunks sometimes do not fall the way you think they are going to. It must be quite a Logistical nightmare to find "training aids" for a class-how many people were in it?? Did you all get a tree to work on???

I only wish such activities were possible here without freezing one's butt off at present. 0F this morning and another 4 inches of snow for tonight! My boss is still in snow clearing mode, so we have not done any tree work at all. Cabin fever is setting in!

 

[heartland]

Jumper - thanks for the encouragement

I did have fun. We only had 7 people in the class, which was odd because usually there are 10-12. That allowed for a lot of personal attention. One of your own, Dwayne Neustaeter, was the instructor. He is President of ArborMaster ® Training Canada, Inc.

Talk about a funny guy. Holy cow....... and a great instructor.

With the smaller class, we opted to all work on a single, large project: hence the 50' post oak removal. It was real brittle. In fact, two of the limbs actually broke during rigging operation. Not a big deal since we were all tied in. One of them occured while trying to get it setup for spider balance with two of us on the limb.... there were a bunch of Texas A&M students watching us on that one... gave them a bit of a scare, but not us: we were secure.

The other limb (smaller) cracked while a climber was resting on it. That one took us all by surprise. He got all twisted up in it with his lanyard but came out fine.

 

[murphy4trees]

As far as saw positionioning I just noticed the AM ad to the left actually has some relevance to this post... the climber is keeping the saw about waist level.. it's easier to control and see what you're cutting when kept waist high... Also looks like he has a lanyard tied in just below the rigging sling and above the block and he's using a pull line.
Tim did you not use a pull line on the top of the spar?? Tough to tell how the tree was leaning from the pics.. and I like a pull line to make sure the chunk falls into the face... a pull line allows the hinge to be a bit thicker and thus gives it more control. That's another reason why I don't necessarily like the back release for chunkin spars... Though it gives the climber an opportunity to put the chainsaw away and finish with a hand saw... it pre-determines the thickness of the hinge, while with a conventional backcut the climber can only cut as much hinge away as needed and with good communication can still put his saw away and get braced before the ground crew pulls the spar over...
This is my thinking on the subject and I Am open to learning. What was the reasoning given for keeping life line and lanyard above the rigging sling?? In the end I suppose everyone has to make up his/her own mind as to what technique he feels most comfortable with...
God Bless All,
Daniel

 

[tophopper]

great pics!!

personally ive always found spar work to be the most pysically demanding.
Just huggin wood, bendin, twistin, reaching.
I would have say it is my least favorite removal technique

good job tim!

 

[Dan Flinn]

Cool pictures, Tim! Man, that was a big chunk!

I havn't done a removal like that in a long time. Mostly just section the spar to a landing zone. I'm with treeclimber, rigging like that freaks me out! Call the crane guy!!

Dan

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Pete Donzelli, is the correct way to spell his name.

"All in all, it's just the same distance of fall" December '99 Arborist News.

Can anyone come up with the play on words that Pete made in the title to the article?

Tom-missing my friend