treatments

[treevet]

here is their treatment (with pressure destroyed vascular tissue) and here is mine with none

 

[gorman]

Are those Mauget?

 

[Pelorus]

No discoloration or unseen damage to the vascular tissue surrounding the injection sites?
Dissection of said tree after a couple years of treatments would be more convincing than any absence of external injury.

 

[treevet]

no need to dissect yet as treatments have worked. but, yes there is always going to be some dieback/discoloration, but that (Tree age I believe), is substantial.

 

[treevet]

Are those Mauget?

yes, have been using them since 1970, and this year to see all the treated healthy ash amidst tall completely dead ones is compelling.

 

[ATH]

that is not an Arbor Plug (from ArborJet).

I am pretty sure that it looked as good as yours did when it was being done

If the ArborJet plugs are set right, they don't do that...I learned that early on (by experience)

 

[Zale]

Looks like it wasn't set right.

 

[ronnyb]

Looks like a Wedgle from ArborSystems.

 

[treevet]

I am pretty sure that it looked as good as yours did when it was being done

(by experience)

duh? and your point?

 

[treevet]

that is not an Arbor Plug (from ArborJet).

Sometimes indignant self righteous people are so wrong there is a perverse beauty in the absoluteness of it.....a plug (Arbor Plug) from their site and a plug from my pocket from her tree....

 

[Menchhofer]

If you would have provided a decent clear picture........instead of acting like an indignant self righteous person.

 

[ATH]

I stand corrected...that is an Arbor Plug. The original pictures looked more rounded on the tops.

Point on it looking good when it is done: Not a great comparison to say "look, this is mine today, and this is the results from another treatment in the past". Not saying that Mauget will do that...but if the arbor plugs are set right, they don't either.

PS: curious, what are you injecting?

 

[treevet]

Mauget doesn't have the pressure to do that and also gravity feeds. Using imicide...imidacloprid....3 mil. I have been to Tree Age seminars with field injections. Very unimpressive relatively me thinks.

When indignant self righteous people are RIGHT...it is not quite so bad, is it Menchie.? Less boring thread with a little conflict sometimes also. opcorn:

 

[ATH]

Betchya my imidacloprid treatments leave less of a wound than your imidacloprid treatments (while remaining just as effective)opcorn:

 

[treevet]

I'll bite...soil injections? menace to bees and the environment say some and we have a town full of dead and half dead row ash to prove you are wrong re effectiveness if this is the riddle ATH.

 

[ATH]

How would trunk injection be any less "menacing" to bees? The complaint I hear is it gets into the tree's flowers and the bees pick it up in the pollen. That will happen with either application method. Fair environmental argument would be application in sandy soil near surface water...making it likely to leech to that body of water.

Regarding effectiveness: I guess your study is better than OSU, Purdue, and MSU studies. They probably don't know how to set up control, or the like. I personally have plenty of examples where it has worked, and none where it hasn't if they stuck with the program. Unless you are in southern MI or Toledo, it has likely been here longer...so that is not a factor influencing those results.

Finally, to bring the 2 (wrong) points together. IF injections were more successful (which I am not agreeing they are...but you say so), wouldn't that be because there is more active ingredient delivered to the tree. If there is more imidacloprid in the tree, wouldn't that mean also, more in the flowers...therefore a bigger threat to bees??? Can't have it both ways: more chemical in trees, less problems for pollinators.

 

[treevet]

How would trunk injection be any less "menacing" to bees? The complaint I hear is it gets into the tree's flowers and the bees pick it up in the pollen. That will happen with either application method. Fair environmental argument would be application in sandy soil near surface water...making it likely to leech to that body of water.

ash are self pollenating (air pollenated) smarty pants. Your treatment heaves out in saturated conditions and gets involved with flowers that ARE pollenated.

Regarding effectiveness: I guess your study is better than OSU, Purdue, and MSU studies. They probably don't know how to set up control, or the like. I personally have plenty of examples where it has worked, and none where it hasn't if they stuck with the program. Unless you are in southern MI or Toledo, it has likely been here longer...so that is not a factor influencing those results.

That is again misinformation you are spewing as my town, treated by Davey Tree since 05 is NOT a study but a reality. Just bring your (wrong for the second time and third time] ass down here to Wyoming Ohio and I will take you for a tour as this town is too cheap to remove the trees and they are all out on full display. They likely have ideal conditions to attain what they are looking for (maybe they get grants from the chem co.s who knows). You are wrong....I am right...your treatments likely are working in low pressure or you just treat perfect specimens and your clientelle is SO small you do not have an accurate reading.

Finally, to bring the 2 (wrong) points together. IF injections were more successful (which I am not agreeing they are...but you say so), wouldn't that be because there is more active ingredient delivered to the tree. If there is more imidacloprid in the tree, wouldn't that mean also, more in the flowers...therefore a bigger threat to bees??? Can't have it both ways: more chemical in trees, less problems for pollinators.

Wrong again as mentioned earlier and previously, and you go thru life blindly forming opinions without the right science. Like I said earlier....Duh....prob take a bee stinging you in the ass to get this.

 

[Pelorus]

Are periodic imidacloprid injections an effective regimen over a long term measured in decades?
Is it possible (like in the case of an old diabetic) to eventually run out of injection sites?
I know it is a completely different situation, but I've seen lumber sawn from butt logs of maple trees tapped for decades that looked very interesting. Almost like the tree was screaming for mercy; "stop the madness"

 

[ATH]

Are periodic imidacloprid injections an effective regimen over a long term measured in decades?

Probably...but nobody knows since EAB hasn't been studied for decades. Same would be true of all other treatments for Emerald Ash Borer.

Is it possible (like in the case of an old diabetic) to eventually run out of injection sites?
I know it is a completely different situation, but I've seen lumber sawn from butt logs of maple trees tapped for decades that looked very interesting. Almost like the tree was screaming for mercy; "stop the madness"

That is a function of how quickly the tree is growing, how many injection sites you are using, and how often you are injecting. If the tree grows over old sites more quickly than you need new sites, you can continue for perpetuity. Sure, there will be some minor decay pockets, but the holes are small enough to recover quickly. UNLESS, they look like the mis-applied arbor plug in the OP...then you will probably run out of injection sites about the same time the tree dies!