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treeman82

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You guys gotta hear this... I got a call today from a woman on the tree board out in Bedford. I had made a call a few weeks ago to ask if I needed permission to prune some sugar maples that were out in front of the house. (dead wood / hazards / slight crown raising) I get a call back from her today, voice mail got it. SHE said that the trees at this house were fine except for one tree by the driveway which had some dead wood. I know these trees and they ALL need to be pruned and ALL have dead wood in them. She advised that I should not prune any of the trees, remove no good wood, and that crown cleaning was a myth that usually results in the over-pruning of trees. I never said that I wanted to do crown cleaning. I told them that I wanted to dead wood the trees, remove hazards, and slightly raise the crowns. The insides are really fine. Any of you guys ever deal with people like this?
 
FREEZE.......TREE POLICE!!!!!!
STOP! Slowly Descend from that tree and back away! Hand off of that Chainsaw Buddy!
What is there theory on Topping i wunder?:D
 
Tree police might be right. Depending on what clout the Board has, you should take a little time to consider what attitude you choose. Getting uptight and righteous probably won't work. Being somewhat conciliatory should go pretty far.

Think of what kind of attitude you might choose if you were to be pulled over by the police or highway patrol.

Tom
 
Excuse me. Who does this tree belong to? Again. Who does it belong to? What sort of egomaniac tells others how to care for their own property and demands that they comply? The proper term for this is tyranny. The founders of our nation were familiar with a thought provoking phrase:"Resistance to tyranny is obedience to God." Hmmmm....
 
Treeman82, Asking implied that you thought they had the right to deny or grant permission. Some folks will sieze authority whenever possible. In truth the owner of the tree has the final say but you are in an awkward situation. Wishing you the best.
 
I've never heard of anyone needing permission from any authority for PRUNING. Several areas around here, you need a permit to REMOVE trees. Getting permission to prune trees is kinda like needing permission to give your truck a tune-up. I could understand needing permission to dump your truck at the junkyard, but I can tune up my truck as often as I like.

WHY would you call someone to ask permission to prune??? :confused:
 
Tom's right. Don't respond with antagonism, the law's in their favor, not yours. Many neigborhood councils, homeowner boards, association panels, etc., have sought and recieve legal guidance and generally an attorney sits on the panel. Precedent has shown the challenges often go unvictorious up to the point of forfiture, condemnation, monetary compensation (in other words, you're screwed).

Instead, what often works is for your to draft-up (with legal help) a document that emplaces liability towards the board (and individual members) if any damage results from the neglect of tree maintenance, in this case the homeowner's property, public use of areas below trees, your vehicle, or any harm, injury, or implication relating to physical or social impediments resulting from the combined decision to protect said trees. Ask them each to sign it. They usually give-in then if they become responsible personally for any future actions. Most often the powerful are actually weak-souled wimps.

Back in the punch-clock days, a "board" told us we couldn't remove a hazard tree damaging a roof line of our client's home - the small opportunistic oak was still alive. Instead we cut every limb from it (no clause in their "law" had that provision) so after that, we got the board back to actually see the tree, they then condemned it. (These people were complete idiots).
 
Stumper,

Without knowing what covenants are in place, you can get into a pile of trouble working without permits. Many associations have maintenance rules that must be followed. This goes for some public communities. This is in the Westchester County area, not the Wild West of CO.

Reed has some great ideas :) I like the overpruing!

Tom
 
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The City of Tampa, Florida recently enacted a Grand Tree Preservation Ordinance, which requires a permit for pruning of certain larger trees. There is a formula to assign a point value to the tree based on trunk circumference, maximum height, and average spread. If the point value exceeds a certain amount, which depends on species, a $33.00 permit is required for pruning. A permit to remove a grand tree costs $575.00.
Stumper, get your head out of your butt and look around. Freedom does not mean you can do whatever you please. A free society MUST have rules to prevent chaos. You need a permit to build or remodel a house, you need a license to drive a car, you must obey speed limits and traffic control devices. Well, you get the point, right? I don't think the desire to protect trees is tyrrany. Perhaps if we, as an industry, did a better job policing ourselves, such laws would not be necessary. Hmmm.
 
I Just bought a new Lot. So why should i Get a permit to Build a House? Hmmmmm
:eek:
 
That's right. Its my property. If I want to build my house out of bamboo and grapevines, who are they to tell me I can't? :confused:
 
Building permits for new houses are for the most part are to keep developers in line with community and safety standards. That reasoning is good, and when a township requires permits for a homeowner to build a fence, to me that is unnecessary. Business licensure, on the other hand, is really just a way to boost revenue. It's taxation. To me, that is a violation of the right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
That said, I do see the need for protection of natural resources. Americans take their "private property" seriously, maybe too seriously. The Japanese and Europeans don't have the luxury.
Native Americans teach the principle of stewardship not ownership.
Any Chicagonians remember when Mr. T bought a big suburban estate and decided he didn't want the trees. He hired someone to denude the property. I think the local municipality stopped him.
God Bless All,
Daniel Murphy
 
Tom, Ah yes the dreaded covenants. That does change things since the owner may signed away his rights when he entered the contract. We have this garbage here in the wild, wild ,wildly out of control government of the west too.:( All this stuff boils down to an exchange of freedom for security.( I don't want a junkyard across the street so I'll give up the right to do my own brake job in the driveway.etc) The problem is that security is an illusion and freedom is to prescious to give up. ( My unbending opinion)

Treeman 14, My head is squarely on my shoulders and held high. I knew that I'd generate some controversy with my comments. I am firmly convinced that if the founders of our nation saw the state of "freedom" in this country today they would start another revolution! Little by little we are surrendering freedom and accepting enslavement while calling ourselves free. The good news is that compliance with a lot of the garbage is voluntary and if you assert your rights you can retain them!

Oakwilt, Great advice! Tactics like that letter should make tree boards/Homeowners Associations consider their actions carefully.
Noah



The Lord spoke to Noah and said, "Noah, in six months I am going to make it rain until the whole world is covered with water and all the evil things are destroyed. But, I want to save a few good people and two of every living thing on the planet. I am ordering you to build an ark."

And, in a flash of lightning, he delivered the specifications for the ark.

"OK," Noah said, trembling with fear and fumbling with the blueprints, "I'm your man."

"Six months and it starts to rain," thundered the Lord. "You better have my ark completed or learn to swim for a long, long time!"

Six months passed, the sky began to cloud up, and the rain began to fall in torrents. The Lord looked down and saw Noah sitting in his yard, weeping, and there was no ark. "Noah!" shouted the Lord, "where is My ark?" A lightning bolt crashed into the ground right beside Noah.

"Lord, please forgive me!" begged Noah. "I did my best, but there were some big problems. First, I had to get a building permit for the ark's construction, but Your plans did not meet their code. So, I had to hire an engineer to redo the plans, only to get into a long argument with him about whether to include a fire-sprinkler system." "On top of that, my neighbors objected, claiming that I was violating zoning ordinances by building the ark in my front yard, so I had to get a variance from the city planning board.

Then, I had a big problem getting enough wood for the ark, because there was a ban on cutting trees to save the spotted owl. I tried to convince the environmentalists and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service that I needed the wood to save the owls, but they wouldn't let me catch them, so no owls."

"And as if that wasn't enough, next, I started gathering up the animals but got sued by an animal rights group that objected to me taking along only two of each kind. Just when the suit got dismissed, the EPA notified me that I couldn't complete the ark without filing an environmental impact statement on your proposed flood. They didn't take kindly to the idea that they had no jurisdiction over the conduct of a Supreme Being."

"Then, the Corps of Engineers wanted a map of the proposed flood plan. I sent them a globe! Right now, I'm still trying to resolve a complaint with the Equal Opportunities Commission over how many minorities I'm supposed to hire."

"The IRS has seized all my assets claiming that I am trying to leave the country, and I just got a notice from the state that I owe some kind of use tax. Really, I don't think I can finish the ark in less than five years."

With that, the sky cleared, the sun began to shine, and a rainbow arched across the sky. Noah looked up and smiled. "You mean you are not going to destroy the world?" he asked hopefully.

"No," said the Lord, "Obviously, I am too late, it seems that the government already has."
 
I'd have to agree with Treeman14 on this one. Our forefathers didn't intend do as you please anarchy, they sought freedom from tyranny and equal representation. Unfortunately, as a society we have become too engrossed in other things to participate responsibly in our government. Many people don't bother to vote or attend town meetings, public hearings etc., unless they are about to be dramatically and immediatley affected by the outcome. Politics and lawmaking are the same at every level. In most cases (not all cases:) ) the people that are involved are there to protect and promote their own agenda and self-interests. Towns have "tree Boards" because enough people approved the decision to have them. Boards and committees are formed by people that were either voted into office or appointed by people that were voted into office. Government is only as accountable as we want it to be. Unfortunately as a voting public we have become so apathetic that government is less accountable than it probably should be.

I absolutley agree that it seems unfair or even ludicrous that I might not be able to prune a tree without permission or cut a tree without a permit but if I didn't try to do anything to change that kind of stuff , it's my own fault. On the other hand it may prevent my crazy neighbor from clearcutting the hundred acres behind me and building a parking lot or landfill. We have rules and restrictions to curb the appetites of the greedy and to control the intentions of those citizens who probably need to be committed in the first place. Human nature is a fickle beast when allowed to run loose! :)
 
Tree Board

Hey Stumper,Your story about Noah was Great!However,It is probably closer to the truth than we would like to admit.I live in an area that was rural 10 years ago, but now they are building high dollar sub divisions any where they can.These sub divisions have covenants that are several pages in length.You would not believe some of the restrictions.I'll bet in other areas it is probably more rediculous.All in the name of Money.
 
I spoke with the woman from the tree board the other day. She apparently is an ISA certified arborist. The reason I may need permission to prune these trees is that 1) they are somewhat near the road. and 2) these trees are part of a big row of maples that lines the road on both sides for quite a ways.
 
Call her Back tuesday and tell her you Topped 2 of them out at the owners Request :D See how fast she gets over there!
 
Just looked at specs for a building lot today in Lower Merion Township, just west of Phila. Pa.
The township considers any lot with more than one tree of 6"+ diameter per 1500 square feet to be a wooded lot. There are requirements for replanting trees for every 6"+ diameter tree removed.
This is the first I've heard of that and I haven't worked for a builder in over a decade.
God Bless All,
Daniel
 
Newfie, Your point about public apathy is very well taken. I also agree that the founders were not anarchists. However they did envision a VERY limited government. I encourage everyone to delve into the history of our nation's inception. Much of the correspondence of the signers of the Declaraton of Independence and the Constitution has been preserved and makes facsinating reading(some of it is even about tree care!).
Despite my comments in this thread heretofore I DO NOT advocate antagonizing 'Tree Boards' or Homeowners Associations (or nosey neighbors for that matter). Making people angry can lead to a protracted battle where gentle reason would have resulted in a smile and a handshake. An explanation of why the work is being/should be done goes a long way toward dispelling tensions.
My expressions of frustration were for the forum. Possible validation for some who are sickened by busybodies and petty tyrannies as I am and a call to the apathetic to think about where this is leading.

Mikey, Thanks for the kudos.:)

"Still one thing more, fellow citizens, a wise and frugal government which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government."--Thomas Jefferson, 1st Inaugural Address
 
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