tree butchers LLC

[murphy4trees]

Someone asked if it was Ricks that did the work in the thread I started yesterday about the fairly easy tree that took 7 men and a crane 12 hours to do. No that was not ricks , but this is. I see this butchery every time they prune a tree. How can you have 6 crews, two cranes, a tub grinder, lots of 75' bucket trucks etc, and not have one real arborist that knows how to prune a tree. I tell all my potential customers that he's fine if you want to get rid of big trees, but don't let him prune your trees.

 

[MonkeyMan_812]

" Well lets just lift them there lower limbs up a little, that el make er look purdy guud boys. "

 

[teamtree]

At the risk of sounding stupid....what is the major problem with those trees?

Assuming the client wanted the shade raised, it looks like a little bit of lion tailing. The canopy could have thinned out a little more. Some of the lower limb pruning should have been done years ago.

I have done work like that at the customers request before. But then again, rarely do I get to prune a tree they way it should be without the customer wanting more gone.

Just wondering what I am missing or if the pic tells the whole story....or more importantly...what your point was.....sorry....

You have to forgive me, where I live it is all about volume when you prune so 90% of my calls for quotes or for topping and butchering....I am usually fighting worse stuff than in the pic you provided.

I do understand what you are saying...just curious as to how you would have done it differently.

Like the following pic....

 

[MonkeyMan_812]

At the risk of sounding stupid....what is the major problem with those trees?

Assuming the client wanted the shade raised, it looks like a little bit of lion tailing. The canopy could have thinned out a little more. Some of the lower limb pruning should have been done years ago.

I have done work like that at the customers request before. But then again, rarely do I get to prune a tree they way it should be without the customer wanting more gone.

Just wondering what I am missing or if the pic tells the whole story....or more importantly...what your point was.....sorry....

You have to forgive me, where I live it is all about volume when you prune so 90% of my calls for quotes or for topping and butchering....I am usually fighting worse stuff than in the pic you provided.

I do understand what you are saying...just curious as to how you would have done it differently.

Like the following pic....

Mabey the HO just wanted to raise the limbs up so you could see the house better from the road? But, I would have done a better job of convincing them that their trees would look a little funny like that. And I definatly would not have put my company logo at the base of those trees without an even and balanced trim job on them. Its all about quality baby!!

 

[tree md]

I bet they used a pole saw... :monkey:

 

[limbwalker54]

Eh, trust me Murph, I feel we share similar opinions and beliefs. I rest at night knowing I try to do the right thing.....and I'm sure you do the same. There will come a time when it will come around on that fellow....

Lets just keep educating the public one proper tree care job at a time.

 

[teamtree]

Ok....Are you saying you never do something against good sound tree care standards due to the customers demand? If so, I am happy for you.

I find it to be a struggle to find customers to understand less is better...maybe that is why I try to do more removals than anything....little to be left for discussion when the tree is gone.

Don't get me wrong, I understand what you are saying and I think quality is the key but quite a bit of this industry is based upon practices that go against good tree care standards.

How many arborists prune for nothing more than view? No reason to remove the limb other than to improve the view. Not science. How many people stick to the 5 rules of pruning?

And, who is to say the customer should not have a say in what their trees look like....it is their property.

In the case of the picture taken, for instance and hypothectically, maybe a certified arborist walked away from the job becuase the homeowner wanted it done the way he wanted and the company that did it was happy to oblige the customer.

Good tree care bad tree care.....does it really matter....the customer is happy...it is America....I can tell you most of my competitors are better off than me because they do what the customer wants regardless of good tree care standards.

I love customers that let me do my thing and they get quality. If a customer tells me to cut at this point....I say ok or I would not do that...if they say why...I tell them....if they say I want to see the river so cut half the tree off like I asked you to and stop with all that scientific talk....I then have the choice to leave. The common response is if it dies it dies.

At the end of the day....while we have the obligation to do the right thing and educate our customers....we need to understand that the customer has rights to do what they want and as long as they do, there will be somebody that will do something that someone else says they will not do.

Ok...to turn it around....why did the arborist making the post not get this particular job? Is there a story behind it?

I could take pics of everything done wrong in tree care by other companies in my county alone...I could fill this site up with enough pics to last 10 years.

I guess my point is really this....customers are for the most part blind to our struggles but they have the cash.

I love to educate someone and then have them tell me they love their trees after we are done.

Sorry for being the devil's advocate.

 

[ozzy42]

I don't know about pruning norhern trees ,but a lot of people have their trees trimmed like that down here,and the trees thrive.A lot of people think the trees compliment the house that way,rather than hide it.

 

[Tree Pig]

Correct me if I am wrong here I am not an expert on true arborist practices. But I was always under the belief that this is a bad time to be pruning now. Unhealthy to prune budding tree or fall when leaves are dropping. I know this is true on certain trees but I always just use it as a guideline.

 

[MonkeyMan_812]

I don't know about pruning norhern trees ,but a lot of people have their trees trimmed like that down here,and the trees thrive.A lot of people think the trees compliment the house that way,rather than hide it.

Well of coarse the trees wont die. They will thrive and do well even when cut like those in the pics. They just look funny. And I agree with Teamtree because there are only a handfull of people on this site that havent broke the "rules of pruning". What about those limbs way at the top of the tree at the end of the day when your really tired. You make the cut, "oh man i cut a little outside the collar on that one. Oh screw it the HO will never see it anyway". And down the tree you go. My point is that nobody does it perfect all the time. As far as talking the HO into pruning their trees how they are supposed to be pruned goes, we as arborists need to know as much as possible and learn all the key terms. If we can fluently use words like compartmentalization and sound like we know what we are talking about to the HO, we should have no problem talking them into letting us "work our magic" and do the things we have been trained to do. I personally would have thinned those tops out a little. There is just something in me that wont let me leave a tree looking like crap. I try to take pride in what I do and will settle for nothing less!

 

[ozzy42]

Well of coarse the trees wont die. They will thrive and do well even when cut like those in the pics. They just look funny. And I agree with Teamtree because there are only a handfull of people on this site that havent broke the "rules of pruning". What about those limbs way at the top of the tree at the end of the day when your really tired. You make the cut, "oh man i cut a little outside the collar on that one. Oh screw it the HO will never see it anyway". And down the tree you go. My point is that nobody does it perfect all the time. As far as talking the HO into pruning their trees how they are supposed to be pruned goes, we as arborists need to know as much as possible and learn all the key terms. If we can fluently use words like compartmentalization and sound like we know what we are talking about to the HO, we should have no problem talking them into letting us "work our magic" and do the things we have been trained to do. I personally would have thinned those tops out a little. There is just something in me that wont let me leave a tree looking like crap. I try to take pride in what I do and will settle for nothing less!

I totally agree with taking pride in what you do,and I do likewise,when the customer says "do what you think is best". But more often than not the HO has in his or her mind what THEY want done with the tree ,and are going to get it one way or the other.
I will do what ever makes them happy.It is their tree,and their money.

A happy customer is a paying customer,and most of the time a repeat customer.

 

[limbwalker54]

Thanks for being happy for me, teamtree. I have turned down a job recently, actually where the client wanted me to remove the central lead out of a 6' dbh Quercus rubra that was dead due to a 45 year old lightning strike. He asked for my advice and if I would give him a price on what I recommended. I recommended complete removal. The tree would not be able to sustain much longer and the central leader was so decayed I would not even want to tie in to it. It was a crane removal for sure. I gave a very reasonable price, and explained why I would not just "remove what would hit his house". The tree was situated so that the other two main limbs (24" dia) extended over two neighbors properties. From the looks there was a crack that ran from the top of the central lead all the way down to the base, and it was at least 2 inches wide at the bottom. If I did what he originally wanted and "just took out the middle", I would be negligent. I would feel horrible, and lose everything I have if someone were killed because I just wanted to get in there, get a buck, and just do what the client wanted.
I gave my price, and he ended up getting someone else to "get the middle out"....and it looks atrocious.
That is an extreme situation. But I have had much success with educating my clients as I prescribe my services for the right reasons. I try to balance the clients needs with what is practical, arboriculturally correct, and safe.

So I lose a client that could have cost me my business if later on that tree killed someone, I'd rather that be on the hack's shoulders than mine.

On the note of proper pruning. If someone asks me to lion tail the tree like that, and I were to do it, I feel that my quality of work would be compromised. I will not do a job that I cannot be proud of. Its not just wood.

 

[Rftreeman]

I'll tell you what's wrong with it, some dimwit pencil pusher decided at one time or another that he would start this "what's good for the tree" arborist thing and now anytime some arborist see someone making money by giving the customer exactly what they wanted they can't stand it knowing that someone got paid to do it........

I personally see nothing wrong with those trees, the customer most likely came home one day and said "I sure would like to be able to see my house from the road" so they hired Rick's to fix it so they could.

 

[capetrees]

Is the customer happy?

Did the check clear?

Did you make a profit for the days work?

If all is answered yes, move on.

 

[MonkeyMan_812]

I totally agree with taking pride in what you do,and I do likewise,when the customer says "do what you think is best". But more often than not the HO has in his or her mind what THEY want done with the tree ,and are going to get it one way or the other.
I will do what ever makes them happy.It is their tree,and their money.

A happy customer is a paying customer,and most of the time a repeat customer.

What if they asked you to top their trees?

 

[MonkeyMan_812]

I'll tell you what's wrong with it, some dimwit pencil pusher decided at one time or another that he would start this "what's good for the tree" arborist thing and now anytime some arborist see someone making money by giving the customer exactly what they wanted they can't stand it knowing that someone got paid to do it........

I personally see nothing wrong with those trees, the customer most likely came home one day and said "I sure would like to be able to see my house from the road" so they hired Rick's to fix it so they could.

If you have a problem with "ARBORISTS" mabey you need to post your comments somewhere else. Its people like you that give Tree Workers a bad name. Do you even care about trees or are you just in it for a quick dollar? Sounds to me that you know very little about arboriculture or even care about it. You sound like you worked for Asplund doing line clearance where it doesnt matter what kind of job you do on the tree, just cut as many as you can in a day and move on down the road.

 

[talloak]

lets see feed my kids or top these trees where you want it cut:greenchainsaw:

 

[Henry111]

7yrs years in buissness. 16yrs in trees, at first i was to proud to top trees because i know better, but after a few hard money times i got over it fast, not to mention those customers that get what they want are my most happy ones. ROCK ON.

 

[MonkeyMan_812]

it not about pride its about doing whats best for the tree and any future occupants of the property. If a tree is so close to the house that it must be topped to be safe then it should be removed.

 

[limbwalker54]

Lets see, one CORRECT pruning job for 1500 or two incorrect ones for 400.....I think I'll take care to make the right limbs go for the right reasons, make the right cuts (yes we ALL make mistakes on a few cuts here and there, human error), and not have to move the truck to the next job and waste all of that fuel for the el cheapo "cut here" job.

I have a passion for arboriculture. I study arboriculture. I enjoy learning more about it everyday, and I feel that by definition - An Arborist is a "professional who possesses the technical competence gained through experience and related training to provide for or supervise the management of trees and other woody plants in residential, commercial, and public landscapes. (From the ISA)"
Think of us as Tree Physicians.

So yes, when we arborists go to the effort to make the right decisions and charge a fair price and a bunch of hacks go around an just "cut stuff", I get a little annoyed because they present something that is INCORRECT to the public, which can train the public eye for the wrong idea of tree care.