czyhorse
ArboristSite Operative
I am not a dirt cutter
Trying to get smarter about chain sharpening
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Oldtoolsnewproblems
ArboristSite Operative
Look I only got like 5-10 cords if wood under my belt, so my advice only counts for so much, BUT finally buying the oregon filling jig made my chain 4 times sharper than it had ever been after 20 minutes if figuring it out, and now I can sharpen a chain anywhere SHARPER than freehand, and FASTER and WITHOUT HAVING TO USE MY BRAIN.
And based on advice I got in my thread a few days ago, I'm just sharpening ALL my chain to 30deg, and I'll play with fancy angles later when I've got more experience.
Oh and make sure your depth guage is accurate, in the beginning I was using one I got on Amazon that was WAY off, left my chains almost useless. Got an oregon one for $3 at the hardware store and night and day difference
And based on advice I got in my thread a few days ago, I'm just sharpening ALL my chain to 30deg, and I'll play with fancy angles later when I've got more experience.
Oh and make sure your depth guage is accurate, in the beginning I was using one I got on Amazon that was WAY off, left my chains almost useless. Got an oregon one for $3 at the hardware store and night and day difference
Oldtoolsnewproblems
ArboristSite Operative
https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/does-sharpening-angle-matter.349328/Here's the thread for the curious
I think that means my pennies worth. A HF grinder can do a fine job on most chains IF OP knows what they are doing. It does take skill to sharpen a chain period. If you hand sharpen it will take some time to get the thing cutting aggressively or with a grinder. A more expensive grinder will make it more simple to do a great job. It is still relevant to the OP and how well they can handle chains. Or find some one to take or send your chains to and call it a day. Thanks
czyhorse
ArboristSite Operative
I made the HF grinder work as best as it was able. The problem is that the wheel it comes with is the wrong size for the 3/8 chain I run and it is to fine. I found a wheel that was the right width and coarseness but was an 1/8th of an inch less in diameter. It shifted the radius that comes in contact with the cutter tooth way more then I thought it would and thus didn't not turn out nearly as I had hoped. It is just the limits of the machine. I am not knocking it per say I just was ready for something that can be more precise. I thought this was a simple question. Its crazy how many peoples toes it stepped on.
There is often numbers or letters stamped into the cutter and drive link. I believe Stihl loops come with a sheet and the rolls come with many.
Should be able to search out such info for Oregon and Stihl.
One of my key points on sharpening, is the need to know what you want your cutters to look like when you are finished.
My other, is that there are lots of ways to sharpen; everyone has to find something that works for them.
If all you have is a HF grinder, and you know what you are trying to achieve, you do the best that you can with that tool. I started a whole thread on this topic, due to a challenge by a couple of members. At one point, I had 11 (!) variations of those little buggers in my shop. Eventually, I decided that I could 'improve' most chains with that knowledge and those tools, but it was taking a lot of extra effort to accommodate their inherent limitations. I did keep a couple, just because they are small, quiet, and fun (in the right application). But I much prefer the 5-3/4", Oregon / Tecomec grinders with good quality wheels.
https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/hf-chain-grinder-thread.268303/
Given the choice, they are not the method I recommend, even for the dollar amount. But some people are very technically oriented, some want simple methods, some sharpen at home workshops, some sharpen in the field, etc. For me, it is interesting and fun to explore different tools, methods, and approaches. For others, sharpening is a distraction from cutting. I have conversed with guys who (TRIGGER WARNING !!!) who use a chain once, then toss it, or offer it for sale on eBay, CL, etc., and rationally justified their decisions.
It was. It happens frequently in response to similar questions, which is why I responded as I did; not due to personal conflicts with the individual posters. You should not take it personally either.
Philbert
It's not so much the dirt, but the sand, gravel, and rocks in the dirt. Then there is the fence line and yard trees with other metalic "goodies" inside......
I cut halfway through a meatball sized rock about six inches under the bark in a ponderosa pine once. The saw started making dust. It was an 066 with full comp on a 28" bar and definitely going on quittin time...
Sometimes you don't hit anything, but tree bark in sandy, windy areas can be real abrasive.
This past fall my buddy found a small mammal trap grown inbetween two cottonwoods with some square ground, and there was no sharpening that in the field on a cold wet day
Different kinds of cutting present different challenges. I have cleaned up after a number of tornadoes, and a few hurricanes. Not ‘if’, but ‘how often’ are you gonna hit something.
Philbert
Philbert
Philbert now do not try and tell me that there are more ways than one to do a specific job like making cutters sharp. I was thinking that it has to be my way and that is it. Thanks
Tired of rummaging around the chainsaw box each time, I put up some little racks in the shop - Grab and go.
Looks very smart to me! Very good job!!
Getting back to the OP, I would say keep it simple to start with... For standard cutting the vast majority of chain will cut fine with a top plate angle of around 30° & a cutting angle of around 55°. If I'm sharpening a chain that's had too much or too little top plate angle put on it I'll bring it back 5° or so each sharpen. I find by taking my time to set the machine up & being attentive I can take minimal material off & still achieve a good result. If you do have to grind significantly ("rocked" chain etc) do it in short light bursts... "Bip, Bip, Bip, Bip, Bip..." So you don't overheat the tooth & ruin its hardening. If you file after grinding you'll need to make a few extra passes the first time to get the tooth back to a "filed" profile. As previously mentioned, there are some good file guides out there to assist your sharpening in the field. I quite like the Husky roller. It may be that some of the issues you encountered hand filing were compounded by the condition of the bar... If you haven't already I'd do a bit of research on checking & dressing the bar, chain tension etc
Hey, JD!
Agreed - light taps! I actually measured the amount of metal removed on a light "clean-up" pass, and it came to 0.2mm (around 0.008")! That's very little, and allows one to grind the chain around 5 times per millimetre! This shows the importance of retiring a chain quickly for sharpening, before it becomes more heavily damaged. You sim,ply extract mach more life from it!
Mike
C'mon Ted; I already thought you were going 'soft' when you said some almost kind things about chain grinders . . . .
Philbert
Thanks Mike!
Very nice! Very nice craftsmanship too!
I am a pegboard guy, myself, because I like to move things around. Plus, I have not had any bare wall space for several years!
Screws and plastic anchors can be used with pegboard, but I really like this 'shop tip' (cut away view from magazine shown) I copied many years ago, using 'L'-hooks, and a bevel on the top, rear, edge of a board. I have made many holders of different types this way, and can move them around.
Philbert
BradSt
ArboristSite Operative
I'll add my 2 cents...I hand filed for years, tried various jigs, used a HF grinder that a buddy has, read a ton on this site, and finally bought my own Oregon 520-120. The Oregon grinder is all I use now. In my experience, if you're going to round grind chain, using a file for touch ups just wastes more tooth, as the profiles do not perfectly match between grinder and file. I grind enough chains to take out in the woods for the day, and touch them up again when I get back. I sharpen 3/8" and .325" full chisel with a 3/16" wheel at 55/30/10, and it seems to do very well. I sharpen semi chisel at 55/30/0 with the same wheel. I only use a 1/8" wheel for 3/8" lo pro, or near end of life .325. You also have to pay attention to the depth you grind to. Take very small bites, and keep the wheel dressed. If the wheel has black streaks on it, it needs a quick dressing. I use a progressive depth gauge as a guide, but sometimes deviate, depending on what saw and what wood. I hand file the depth gauges. As long as I stay out of the dirt, they last a long time, and cut like lasers. I also sharpen a fair number of chains for friends as well.
I also do a fair amount of milling, and no longer hand file that chain either. I'd rather take the chain off and grind it, than to hand file it with the Alaskan mill on there. I run semi chisel, ground at 60/15/0, and it cuts very well. This way, the teeth are all exactly the same length and profile.
I also do a fair amount of milling, and no longer hand file that chain either. I'd rather take the chain off and grind it, than to hand file it with the Alaskan mill on there. I run semi chisel, ground at 60/15/0, and it cuts very well. This way, the teeth are all exactly the same length and profile.
I have 2 suggestions - apply equally to grinders and files.
1) Get yourself a good set of cheater glasses (whether you need them or not) or a lighted magnifying lamp, and use that to look at your cutters. You will learn a lot at 5-10x magnification. I mounted a magnifying lamp to my sharpening bench. Use it almost every time I sharpen.
2) Get to a real feel for the difference between a sharp chain and a "not quite sharp" chain. As soon as your chain feels" not quite sharp" - stop and sharpen. Don't wait until the end of the tank, or the end of the log, or until the chain is DULL. If the chain is not sharp, then make it sharp. It may mean more time sharpening, but it will also mean less time cutting. (or swap for a sharp chain)
I made 2 cuts through a 30" log yesterday then went back and sharpened again. There was a small clump of dirt frozen to the underside of the log. Didn't see it, but cut right through it. I knew immediately when starting the 3rd cut that something was wrong. 5 mins with the file for a touch up and back to cutting again. Makes all the difference in the world
1) Get yourself a good set of cheater glasses (whether you need them or not) or a lighted magnifying lamp, and use that to look at your cutters. You will learn a lot at 5-10x magnification. I mounted a magnifying lamp to my sharpening bench. Use it almost every time I sharpen.
2) Get to a real feel for the difference between a sharp chain and a "not quite sharp" chain. As soon as your chain feels" not quite sharp" - stop and sharpen. Don't wait until the end of the tank, or the end of the log, or until the chain is DULL. If the chain is not sharp, then make it sharp. It may mean more time sharpening, but it will also mean less time cutting. (or swap for a sharp chain)
I made 2 cuts through a 30" log yesterday then went back and sharpened again. There was a small clump of dirt frozen to the underside of the log. Didn't see it, but cut right through it. I knew immediately when starting the 3rd cut that something was wrong. 5 mins with the file for a touch up and back to cutting again. Makes all the difference in the world
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