Underbidding Idiots

[fishercat]

i got a request for an estimate this morning.

from a home owner.He said he was interested in a "free estimate".

since he took the time to type free in there i lost some interest.

when he said he was getting several estimates i lost all interest.

The tree was in Stihl-O-Matic's town.I called to see if he wanted to run over and look at it but either he was still asleep or his wife took his phone away again.

 

[ChiHD]

some of it you could easily do 20+ acres in a day with 3 men. same deal though making room for stands of aspen to grow.

hmmmmmm :monkey:

I call bull####.

 

[pdqdl]

:agree2:

It is pretty hard to just MOW 20 acres of tall grass in a day with only a tractor and a 6' brush hog. Don't tell me three men with chainsaws can cover more ground than a single man with a mower.

Unless there is way more grass than trees to cut down.

 

[mckeetree]

I bid a similar job last year for the NFS and it went for $90 an acre. My bid was 130 an acre. 225 acres if I remember correctly. some of it was thick some of it you could easily do 20+ acres in a day with 3 men. same deal though making room for stands of aspen to grow.

Aw come on man.

 

[treesquirrel]

squirrel, I took the site tour & let me tell ya....3 men would never scratch the surface to finish in time, my bid was in the $1800 - $2000 range & I was unsure about finishing on time.

This is not brush you`re cutting...its trees, brush, multi floral, etc.. & the fact we just had a big snow storm....


LXT............

Ouch, yeah, I did not factor in snow. But if I understand its is primarily felling the trees and leaving the access road clear. The handful of clearing jobs I have done around here were primarily pines. You can drop lots of pines in a days time.

 

[BC WetCoast]

Could you run an excavator (eg Cat 235) with a chain flail head, with a hand faller to tidy it up?

 

[lxt]

All debris is to remain...not even an option of cleanup, machinery access is not possible....it is, but you would destroy what they dont want touched, you would literally need to make a path through the woods to get to some of the sites..thats a no,no

Basically this is like logging with out retrieving the prize!! I thought 3 guys cutting 20 acres with chainsaws was a little out there!!!!!




LXT................

 

[teamtree]

Is the machinery no access due to contract stipulations or you just think there is no access? How did you get to the property to check it out?

 

[teamtree]

I would go out to the property and check out how they do it.....maybe you can learn something....maybe you will realize it was good not to get it.

I have lost some bids that were similar to that....one in particular...cut 700 trees and I lost the bid to someone who did it for like $3.67 per tree. Half the trees were 4" dbh or less but over 100 were over 20" dbh with at least 20 requiring the tops to be cut out. Our bid was around $12 per tree.

In the end, they worked for like $15 per hour per guy.

 

[treemandan]

I know the terrain what grows up there. 2g 's for gas? sounds about right. I would say for 125 an acre idiot is fitting unless they have superpowers I don't know.

 

[lxt]

Is the machinery no access due to contract stipulations or you just think there is no access? How did you get to the property to check it out?

We drove in on access roads, then walked to the sites...these access roads are literally off road 4x4, The terrain is so steep that standing on the hill to cut the trees would be hard.

The "Dan"...you know the area here, I cant beleive $125 an acre, I might just go watch em to see how its done!!


LXT.................

 

[pdqdl]

Schedule a get-together for your region while they will be working on-site. Bring refreshments & food; you could probably sell tickets and make money!

 

[BC WetCoast]

We drove in on access roads, then walked to the sites...these access roads are literally off road 4x4, The terrain is so steep that standing on the hill to cut the trees would be hard.

The "Dan"...you know the area here, I cant beleive $125 an acre, I might just go watch em to see how its done!!


LXT.................

I don't know how steep is steep in your opinion (it varies), but there are tilt table feller bunchers that can operate on 100% slopes (45 degrees) and could easily clear an acre an hour. They can fall full trees at an acre/hour. Is this what they are planning?

 

[pdqdl]

Whether or not that kind of machine would work in that site is a bit irrelevant. Could you transport such a machine to that site and do the work with a high dollar machine for $125/hr? You can pick up a decent used unit for about 100K.

They might loose more money that way than with a crew of men.

Look what I found: http://www.allbusiness.com/agriculture-forestry/forestry-logging-forest-nurseries/304703-1.html

This huge article probably has some useful production numbers that might answer the question. Lots of reading.

 

[BC WetCoast]

Whether or not that kind of machine would work in that site is a bit irrelevant. Could you transport such a machine to that site and do the work with a high dollar machine for $125/hr? You can pick up a decent used unit for about 100K.

They might loose more money that way than with a crew of men.

Look what I found: http://www.allbusiness.com/agriculture-forestry/forestry-logging-forest-nurseries/304703-1.html

This huge article probably has some useful production numbers that might answer the question. Lots of reading.

If one was to assume that you already own the machine, then as long as you can pay for the variable costs, you are better off. If you are losing money on the variable costs, then you should let the machine sit.

Your fixed costs are sunk, that is, you pay them whether you operate or not. So any many made that is greater than your variable costs will contribute to the fixed costs.

 

[jsk]

low bid

Im just blown away by this I see low bids all of the time here. But this is just crazy. I wish that I lived closer lxt I would bring a nice big lunch and have some good laughs watching these guys do the clearing. He must be getting his pocket padded in some way that is sneaky, otherwise it just doesnt make sense.

I just lost a job that I was gratful to lose last fall dropping about 60 ash trees. wood removed brush chipped prob a 45 degree slope. I bid for $350 a tree making up loss selling firewood. winning bid was like 75 a tree. he lost big money the guy told me.

 

[lxt]

Im just blown away by this I see low bids all of the time here. But this is just crazy. I wish that I lived closer lxt I would bring a nice big lunch and have some good laughs watching these guys do the clearing. He must be getting his pocket padded in some way that is sneaky, otherwise it just doesnt make sense.

I just lost a job that I was gratful to lose last fall dropping about 60 ash trees. wood removed brush chipped prob a 45 degree slope. I bid for $350 a tree making up loss selling firewood. winning bid was like 75 a tree. he lost big money the guy told me.

I know, Im bidding some work in that area this week & have to drive by /walk in & see how they`re doing this. I think there is some sneaky money issues here too.



LXT................

 

[capetrees]

Im just blown away by this I see low bids all of the time here. But this is just crazy. I wish that I lived closer lxt I would bring a nice big lunch and have some good laughs watching these guys do the clearing. He must be getting his pocket padded in some way that is sneaky, otherwise it just doesnt make sense.

I just lost a job that I was gratful to lose last fall dropping about 60 ash trees. wood removed brush chipped prob a 45 degree slope. I bid for $350 a tree making up loss selling firewood. winning bid was like 75 a tree. he lost big money the guy told me.

+1

I can't see how anyone, even on accessable flat land with machinery available could make any money on $125/acre. After paying help, fuel and insurances, where's the profit?

 

[treemandan]

We drove in on access roads, then walked to the sites...these access roads are literally off road 4x4, The terrain is so steep that standing on the hill to cut the trees would be hard.

The "Dan"...you know the area here, I cant beleive $125 an acre, I might just go watch em to see how its done!!


LXT.................

Don't forget a camera!

 

[treemandan]

Whether or not that kind of machine would work in that site is a bit irrelevant. Could you transport such a machine to that site and do the work with a high dollar machine for $125/hr? You can pick up a decent used unit for about 100K.

They might loose more money that way than with a crew of men.

Look what I found: http://www.allbusiness.com/agriculture-forestry/forestry-logging-forest-nurseries/304703-1.html

This huge article probably has some useful production numbers that might answer the question. Lots of reading.

Its not 125 per hour unless you can clear an acre and hour but your right anyhow. A machine that can clear a Pittburgh acre in hour probably costs more than 125 per hour to operate.