*** UNDERSTANDING CREOSOTE ***

[NSMaple1]

Hi guys. For the third time this week, we have had to clean up this thread because folks seem to want to drag in accusations and insults from things that happened on another forum. If anyone else wishes to try and derail this thread with negative/attacking comments towards the OP or any contributor, there will be warning points assessed.

FYI this is meant to address those who have had posts removed. This is not in reference to those who are politely posting opinions that differ from the OP.

Thank you.

I just twigged in to your avatar, kinda fits pretty good.

You might need a flag throwing one to mix in once in a while to offset the touchdowns - lol...

 

[Marshy]

Did I miss all the excitement? Damn...

Well, I created a thread called Chimney Sweep Before and After, go take a look if you havent seen it yet.
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/chimney-sweep-before-after.289461/

I think the key to the OPs point is know when you should use the "burn off" method. To date I've propbably burnt 2/3 of a cord of firewood since I've swept my chimeny. I'm not doing any burn-offs persay becuase the wook Im burning it two years seasoned Aspen that been under a roof. This **** is dry as paper. At night I will mix a few chinks of hard maple or ash but thats it. Theres no concern to me that Im creating any creosote with the wood im burning or the fact that I'm keeping the stove low. It gets turned up more at night and should get hot enough to keep it clean. Also, the lows are only dipping into the upper 30's and not blowing hard. Thats near ideal conditions, warm-er out with no wind to cool the top of the flue, dry wood and light loads. With conditions like that I could probably eek out 2 years without any build up. Its when your packing every open square inch of firebox space with wood and turning it down to make it last 12 hours is where things get bad. However, that statement wont apply to the new EPA Cat stoves, more so the non EPA stoves like what I use...

 

[Idahonative]

If I let my stove get hot like that it would be 95* in the house! I don't understand why it'd make any sense to try and get everything blazing hot when it doesn't need to. I've seen stoves only last a few years when they have to run pretty much full bore all winter.

I normally just let it go wide open until it's a bit in the active and then shut it down. Or if it's cold out I'll set the air to about 50% while it's warming up, otherwise there is too much draft, to the point that the stove almost rattles.
My glass stays clean. Only time it really soots up is when it's in the 40s+ outside and someone puts a bit too much wood in and damp it down more than it should for the temp. Not so much draft so the smoke stays in the stove more.

I've been heating with wood almost all my life with several different stoves and I've never done or heard of this "burn off". Last year I brought wood to a fire fighter that kept ranting about having to get the stove and pipe real hot to clean it out. Come to find out they have had at least 3 chimney fires in the last couple years.

I clean out my chimney every year or so, usually don't get much out of it... most of the junk is on the underside of the cap as it's pretty cold.

Valley, you do realize the daily burn offs are supported by the Blaze King manual...right? Have you read your manual? Everything I'm recommending is also recommended by Blaze King as well. BKVP will disagree with that statement but all a person has to do is read the manual. Actually, I've made it much easier than that. In post #1, I have cut and pasted all the pertinent info from the manual concerning daily burns and creosote.

We were doing the daily burn offs long before owning a Blaze King stove. I just found it interesting that many of the recommendations they make in the manual is what we were already doing.

 

[Idahonative]

Yes, I read it. This is there:

Daily burn offs should be a part of every wood burners routine no matter what stove you own.

That's your opinion - my opinion is that is wrong, and it should not be a part of everyones routine, and to advise everyone to do it is dangerous and WILL lead to a chimney fire, for someone. It has nothing to do with how smart anyone is or you think they aren't.

You've got it completely backwards IMO. You think daily burns will lead to a chimney fire. The fact is, by NOT DOING daily creosote maintenance, you are guaranteeing creosote buildup and significantly increasing your chances of a chimney fire.

 

[zogger]

I climbed up the other day and looked at mine. Ten years burning no brushing, old brick chimney. Small amount of light dust at the top layer of bricks you could wipe off with your finger and that's it. Now, I do use that chemical stuff you throw a scoop in, but that's it, and only started doing it last year, just because it is cheap and maybe it works, dunno. Doesn't seem to hurt. I have seen the chimney a bit dirtier with an extremely light oily film before, but it wasn't thick or anything. . The main reason, my opinion, I have no actual data other than observational anecdotal, it stays clean is I refuse to use an exhaust damper, I just have wide variety of species and sizes for firewood and a a controllable air intake that screws in and out. I adjust my burn by what I throw in and how much air it gets, I never restrict the exhaust. It's like, pick a gear and throttle setting to drive. You just learn how, depending on what your needs are at the time.

When I first started burning in a stove, I had a flue damper and dang no matter what I did I got creosote buildup, hot fire or not, and had to clean the pipes. I thought about it some, removed the damper, and never had a lick of trouble since.

OK, eventually I want to add a stainless liner and extend my chimney height a few feet, but that's it. I still don't anticipate any creosote buildup, not anything major at all. It's them dang dampers and burning wet wood, smouldering it, that does it. If you need to top off once a night, meh...I get up anyway for a pitstop and have always been able to fall back asleep fast.

 

[Idahonative]

I climbed up the other day and looked at mine. Ten years burning no brushing, old brick chimney. Small amount of light dust at the top layer of bricks you could wipe off with your finger and that's it. Now, I do use that chemical stuff you throw a scoop in, but that's it, and only started doing it last year, just because it is cheap and maybe it works, dunno. Doesn't seem to hurt. I have seen the chimney a bit dirtier with an extremely light oily film before, but it wasn't thick or anything. . The main reason, my opinion, I have no actual data other than observational anecdotal, it stays clean is I refuse to use an exhaust damper, I just have wide variety of species and sizes for firewood and a a controllable air intake that screws in and out. I adjust my burn by what I throw in and how much air it gets, I never restrict the exhaust. It's like, pick a gear and throttle setting to drive. You just learn how, depending on what your needs are at the time.

When I first started burning in a stove, I had a flue damper and dang no matter what I did I got creosote buildup, hot fire or not, and had to clean the pipes. I thought about it some, removed the damper, and never had a lick of trouble since.

OK, eventually I want to add a stainless liner and extend my chimney height a few feet, but that's it. I still don't anticipate any creosote buildup, not anything major at all. It's them dang dampers and burning wet wood, smouldering it, that does it. If you need to top off once a night, meh...I get up anyway for a pitstop and have always been able to fall back asleep fast.

Good point. No matter what stove we have used in the past, it has always been our goal to dampen it down to help the burn last as long as possible. After all, we mostly burn pine and length of burn is not that wood's strongpoint. Your post brings up a good point that everyone has different goals for their burn. If a person is burning dry wood and burning hot all the time, daily burn offs might be pointless. I do know however, that this Blaze King is designed to smolder. The cat thrives on the smoke and very little goes up the stack. Non the less, daily burn offs are still part of our daily maintenance.

 

[Marshy]

@zogger, don't be too fast to blame the damper. I've had one on my stove for the 5 years I've owned it and everyone of my parents stoves growing up had one and no issues with creosote. It's primarily moisture content in the wood and over restricting the fire resulting in low flue gas temperature. Whether or not someone does that with either a flue damper or the air inlet damper is no different.

 

[zogger]

@zogger, don't be too fast to blame the damper. I've had one on my stove for the 5 years I've owned it and everyone of my parents stoves growing up had one and no issues with creosote. It's primarily moisture content in the wood and over restricting the fire, whether or not someone does that with either a flyer damper or the air inlet damper is no different.

I am a curmudgeon on this. The only damper I think stoves need is an internal baffle to slow it down a little inside the firebox, give it time and space to burn in there, so you get heat. A damper sort of is supposed to do this, but an intenal baffle (with additional air intake there) does it better. I like the original jotul designs with the baffle and the russian masonry designs with a long travel in the house and rocket stoves, burn clean, and if possible, store extra heat in thermal mass. I *really* like those designs, solid state, no pumps or electricity required, big stored heat mass. I really don't have the thermal mass yet, someday... Now mine is a straight out smoke dragon, so I know I lose some heat, but I don't want to sweat that, I could get by just burning uglies smalls big chunks and doglegs and sell every bit of the pretty wood, I live where the wood is..it's like ft knox here for BTU availability.

I am sure there are thousands of people who use dampers successfully, I just had some problems and when I stopped using one, they went away and I just quit worrying about the chimney or pipe, and remembering way back when I first lost the damper (mid 70s living in maine), didn't notice any huge wood used increase either, I just had to think a bit more what and how I loaded. Works for me, personal anecdotal. I am just throwing it out there for anyone experiencing difficulties, it is easy enough to open the damper wide open and leave it there or just yank it out if it is in the pipe. I can't afford any of those high end stoves or an owb, etc, so..I work with what I got.

 

[Marshy]

Im in the same boat as you and am using 60-70's stove technology which has no baffle. However, i believe if used properly can be a benefit. The damper only gets shut half way or a little more most times and I use it to slow down the flue gases to help recoup the heat in the single wall pipe before it flows up and outside to contribute to global warming.

 

[Idahonative]

Came across something by accident tonight that...well, shocked me. The Colestin Rural Fire District (Ashland, OR.) has a webpage devoted to "Stoves and Flue Fires". It states right at the top of the page, "Home heating is now the #1 cause of residential fires". Then goes on to say, "Creosote build-up is a time bomb waiting to happen, and can add significant fuel to a fire situation."

I'm reading through this and agreeing with some things and disagreeing with others. About half way down the page it states, "Newer, more airtight stoves create much more creosote than older stoves and fireplaces, and can produce enough creosote for a fire within just three days." I agree with that statement. But then they say this: "Efficient, slow-burning stoves may not keep your chimney or stovepipe hot enough to burn out creosote, so build a roaring hot fire at least once a week, but do NOT over-fire".

WTF??? They are saying that creosote is a time bomb (yes), that it can build up to dangerous levels in just three days (yes)...Then recommend to people that they build a roaring hot fire at least once a week (NO!!!). I almost had to laugh...are they giving advice to help people avoid fires or giving advice to cause fires?

http://www.crfd.org/stoves-and-fluefires.htm

Is it any wonder why there is so much misinformation out there concerning creosote and chimney fires when a Fire Department, the people we depend on to protect us, recommends something that is absolutely dangerous?

EDIT: This brings up a good question...what advice is your Fire Department giving?

 

[JRHAWK9]

creosote??? I do not know this word of which you speak....lol

Photos I took last spring of my chimney after burning all winter.