*** UNDERSTANDING CREOSOTE ***

[Idahonative]

Thought I would bring some information into this thread from another thread (the dark side). I mentioned before how, people that should know what they are talking about, don't always. There are staff members on 0ther sites who regularly give out false advise (not to mention, stifle dissenting views). This is one example:
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I came across a thread over there in which the staff member basically brags to others about how much creosote accumulation is in his flue:

From staff member, BrotherBart (2007): "Hell, that stuff ain't nothing. Here is the pic of my chimney last year that made the Hall of Fame and got used by the webmaster as an example:"

And then, posted this pic to show the creosote accumulation in his flue (see bottom of page):

If you want to know what your flue should not look like, that pic is a great example.
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From staff member, BrotherBart (2010): "I quote your whole post just to say "yes!". I have started to type that almost word for word a hundred times. In the last four years since I changed stoves I have not once burned "hot to clean it out". The pipe or the stove. And the liner just has a little black dust in it when I sweep. And I have not a clue what the liner temp is since it is all inside the masonry chimney. I didn't even put much stock in that once a day old wive's tale BEFORE I had EPA stoves.

If you are burning so dirty that your firebox is gunked up with creosote, start burning all of your fires hotter. By morning my firebox looks like somebody threw a bag of flour in there during the night."
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He didn't "even put much stock in that once a day old wive's tale BEFORE I had EPA stoves"? Uh, yea BrotherBart, we can tell. Maybe you should have put more stock in that "old wive's tale" and your flue would not have looked that way. And at the same time, he was stifling opinions that ran counter to what he believed.

Is it any wonder why people are confused? And is it any wonder why this staff member would disagree with me? It's clear to me (looking at his history) he has never understood how to operate a wood stove properly. And he is not the only staff member over there that is clueless.

One other point. If you have any doubts that creosote is a controversial and misunderstood subject, just do a search for the word "creosote" on any wood stove forum. Be prepared to sit back and read for a while.

 

[Ironworker]

The thread is titled "understanding creosote" but I don't think the op himself understands it.

 

[NSMaple1]

Bringing an axe-grinding session from another site to their site - something I am sure mods the world over just love to see...

 

[Idahonative]

Bringing an axe-grinding session from another site to their site - something I am sure mods the world over just love to see...

Axe-grinding session? I wasn't even involved in the conversation I brought into this thread. I was banned years later and yes, the guy mentioned above was still preaching misinformation then as well. I brought that here as an example of the confusion that's out there and the misinformation that's spread by people who should know better.

 

[Idahonative]

Got another good example from the HELLO FROM BKVP thread today:

I said, "The same could be said for the other areas of creosote that BK addresses in the manual. If a person is getting the stove hot enough to burn creosote off the glass, the firebox, and the cat, they are getting it hot enough to keep the flue free of creosote. I can tell you first hand, it takes getting the cat probe into the upper range for approx 30 minutes (like the manual states) to clean the glass. At those temps, for that long, the flue WILL be free of creosote (with daily burn offs)."
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An AS member responded, "I've done that a few times by accident. Loaded the stove and got distracted or fell asleep in front of it.

Yeah... it cleaned the glass alright, and also scared the crap out of me. Stove at 800+, house pushing 90*, hot paint/metal smell, whole place rumbling like a train was next door from the draft pulling so hard."
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I responded, "Falling asleep and accidentally over firing your stove IS NOT the same as a daily burn off or getting into the upper range of NORMAL operation. Just so we're clear.

It's stories like yours that makes the lawyers for the wood stove manufacturers cringe. And I believe that is why they have to be careful recommending daily burn offs. Because when someone burns their house down, through complete fault of their own, they want to turn around and sue the manufacturer.

BTW: The way you describe it, sounds like you fell asleep and left the door open."
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Everyone needs to understand what over firing your stove means. During daily burn offs, the stove is operating within the upper range of safe and normal operating temps. Some might be surprised to learn that the cat can reach temps of 1500 degrees and still be in the safe range (that is max). At that temp, I guarantee you things are getting real hot around it.

 

[cantoo]

I'm not really sure what creosote is. This is what happens to an owb when someone fills it full of crap wood when cleaning up and it doesn't fire for 2 days due to low heat draw. Wish I had my hot tub still.

 

[cuinrearview]

an opinion that differs from mine [/I]then as well. I brought that here as an example of the confusion that's out there and the opinions other than mine that's spread by people who should know better.

There. That looks more like da troof. Blanket statements are rarely healthy. I have a 2 1/2 story straight shot out of my insert that pulls a monster draft. I burn properly seasoned wood. I still had no qualms about spending $5 at a yard sale for a brush and the fiberglass poles. Nor do I feel the 1/2-1 hour each year is wasted to knock loose and clean out the 1/2 coffee can of material that is collected. I don't advocate you or anyone else doing or not doing the same, but that's MY opinion.

 

[Idahonative]

There. That looks more like da troof. Blanket statements are rarely healthy. I have a 2 1/2 story straight shot out of my insert that pulls a monster draft. I burn properly seasoned wood. I still had no qualms about spending $5 at a yard sale for a brush and the fiberglass poles. Nor do I feel the 1/2-1 hour each year is wasted to knock loose and clean out the 1/2 coffee can of material that is collected. I don't advocate you or anyone else doing or not doing the same, but that's MY opinion.

Well I agree with you since the very first line in my thread reads:

"THE FOLLOWING ARE MY OPINIONS ONLY. YOUR OPINIONS &/OR EXPERIENCES MAY DIFFER"

I've also stated "there's nothing wrong" with sweeping your chimney.

 

[cuinrearview]

Glad we're in agreement.
Just helping those that may not read the whole thread. Also I think people should know that sweeping is so easy it could possibly be considered a non-issue.

 

[Idahonative]

Glad we're in agreement.
Just helping those that may not read the whole thread. Also I think people should know that sweeping is so easy it could possibly be considered a non-issue.

I totally agree with you that sweeping is so easy IF a person is burning correctly (which you are). But that won't be the case for someone who isn't burning correctly and has creosote accumulation. I realize you know that...just saying for those who might not.

 

[Ironworker]

The hardest part of cleaning my flue is walking to the basement to get my sooteater, I actually took a piece of plywood and drilled a 1" hole in the middle and I place it in front up against the opening to my stove and I just feed the fiberglass rods through there and when I'm done I just walk away with zero soot in the house.

 

[Deleted member 83629]

burn off nope, but i do clean my flue out three times during the winter.
i leave the stove choked down because it saves wood and the stove still puts out plenty of heat.
only problem though i kill all the hibernating skeeters within three miles of my house.

 

[Idahonative]

burn off nope, but i do clean my flue out three times during the winter.
i leave the stove choked down because it saves wood and the stove still puts out plenty of heat.
only problem though i kill all the hibernating skeeters within three miles of my house.

Just my opinion Jake but burning as you described (stove choked down all the time) makes daily burn offs even more important for you.

 

[unclemoustache]

The thread is titled "understanding creosote" but I don't think the op himself understands it.

So are you going to provide any info to back up your claim, or are you just expressing your opinion without anything to back it up?

.

 

[Ironworker]

So are you going to provide any info to back up your claim, or are you just expressing your opinion without anything to back it up?

.

The latter based on some misinformation.

 

[Deleted member 83629]

Dang where is whitespider. LOL

 

[svk]

Dang where is whitespider. LOL

@Whitespider

 

[svk]

@BrotherBart please refrain from harassing other members.

 

[mga]

from personal experience...gotta agree with the OP.

I heat using a fire place and have clay tiles. we burn almost 24/7 unless it gets warm out. for years I never gave the chimney much thought and one day decided to clean it. bought the brush and extensions and went up on the roof. from the top down there was just black dust and no tar. I ran the brush up and down a few times and after getting a face full of dust, I could see red tiles again. Keep in mind my chimney is located in the CENTER of the house. ( I have a reason for saying this)

a couple of years ago I added a chimney cap made from stainless. I noticed this is the only place I get tar buildup. My neighbor has an "air tight" and he must clean his "lined" chimney at least twice or three times per year because he "chokes" the fire down so much. there is always more smoke billowing from his than from mine. (his brick chimney is on an out side wall) he's also "cheap" and thinks he's saving fire wood....but his house is like 65 degrees where as mine is always a comfortable 75 to 80, and I only use slightly more than he does.

when burning, high heat is your friend to keep things clean. when you choke a fire down, you're not putting as much heat up that flue and particles will adhere to it. this is the build up that forms. the reason my chimney cap collected tars is because the metal was colder than the flue pipes, (the cap stands about 7" tall) additionally, a chimney build in the center of a house will always be warmer than one built on the outside walls. these chimneys have a tendency to get build up because they are always cooler.

there are several neighbors who burn wood around me and every one has a different set up. those using "air tight" stoves are always cleaning their flue pipes and those with out side wall chimneys are as well. as for me.....I can go for a couple of years without cleaning mine because it's not worth pushing dust.

 

[tla100]

I get fire going in AM from coals, a little paper, pine scrap, and then splits on top of that. Leave door open for 10-15 min tops, usually an inferno with chimney temps from 500-700, close door and go to work. Reload after work. I only have an air inlet "damper" that stays 1/2 to 3/4 open. Chimney swept once a year. Only get a cup or 2 of fines.