wet crotch with bugs

[joshua5]

got a sugar maple in the back yard with a funnel shaped crotch at chest level. water collects in there often and i'm afraid it's rotting. is there some product i can use to coat the bottom of the "funnel" of the crotch i.e. wax, that black tree wound healer, etc. ??

i've seen some large black ants around this tree. i want to eventually use the tree for a tree house. can the local tree guys usually rid a sugar maple of ants or is it one of those things that's hopeless?

thanks for any replys.

 

[NeTree]

Nice thread title Josh...


Find a local Arborist, and have him/her evaluate the tree for insecticidal treatment. That hollow spot collecting water isn't necessarily the end of the world. Have your arborist do an assessment. Tell him what your plans are.

 

[Newfie]

Josh,

Take Erik's advice on the tree and then see a doctor about the bugs in your wet crotch, they have medication for that now.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Since decay microorganisms are aerobic, keeping the hollow full of water will reduce the amount of decay.

There has been studies that have found ants being beneficial.

Tom

 

[SilverBlue]

Originally posted by Tom Dunlap
Since decay microorganisms are aerobic, keeping the hollow full of water will reduce the amount of decay.

There has been studies that have found ants being beneficial.

Tom

Organisms do not have to be in an aerobic environment to start the decay process. Fungi are usually the first to start on high carbon material while aerobic bacteria work faster they need oxygen and nitrogen to sustain their activity.

 

[MasterBlaster]

There has been studies that have found ants being beneficial.

Tom [/B]

Do you have any more info on that, Tom?

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Get your copy of "A New Tree Biology" by Shigo, everyone owns the book, right?

No? Well, before any more biners, saws or beer is bought, more books should be purchased...and read

Open to pages 95-97.

I know that I've read about ants and decay in other sources but I can't put my hands on that right now.

Google would know, for sure.

Tom

 

[SilverBlue]

So a guy buys a book and thinks he’s an expert huh?

Tom what do you think, are your farts made by aerobic or anaerobic microorganisms?

Water absorbs oxygen very freely, ever see fish in a small pond? So how is one going to prevent that from happening? What about freeze-thaw cycles?

And large black ants are not beneficial. I can show you some trunk wood where they carved out their home, not very good for the tree.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

i hope everyone knows to have private message alert on in 'User CP'; especially when they have opted out of being able to be emailed. Sometimes that is pretty important. Something i had to learn when new.

Whoo oo oops ; Is that off topic?

:alien:

 

[MasterBlaster]

In my observations, large black ants in a tree are just as good an indicator of decay as say, fruiting bodies or whatnot.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

SB wrote:

So a guy buys a book and thinks he’s an expert huh?

*Huh? are you saying that just because my bookshelf is heavy, that makes me an expert? If so, nope. I learn every day. There are very few things that I would consider myself expert on. Those are mostly personal, which leads to the next...

Tom what do you think, are your farts made by aerobic or anaerobic microorganisms?

*That's one of my personal expertises. None of your business!

I'm repeating what I've learned from reading Shigo's work and also having taken many classes from him over the years. Most, not all, wood decay micro organisms are aerobic. Here, we're talking about wood, not the beans I ate last night. They make me talk but you wouldn't want to be part of that conversation.

Water absorbs oxygen very freely, ever see fish in a small pond?

*I've lived my whole life in Minnesota, you know, The Land of 10,000 [actually closer to 15,000] Lakes. I've seen plenty of fish, even ones from lakes that are frozen over.

So how is one going to prevent that from happening?

What about freeze-thaw cycles?

*Can you show how an ice cube in a tree is damaging? Put a GLASS cup of water in the freezer. Does the glass break? Rarely, most times the ice domes up. Remember, I live in MN AND!!! I spend at least a week a year camping in the snow and ice in the Boundary Waters.

And large black ants are not beneficial. I can show you some trunk wood where they carved out their home, not very good for the tree.

*Did you get your copy of Shigo's book and read what he wrote? If not, you missed out on what he found. Ants don' break through CODIT walls. they excavate already decayed or wounded wood. So, the wood has already started on its downward path of strength loss, the ants just move out the material.

Stop and think about the logs that are being salvaged from lakes and rivers. Still in good shape because the micro organisms haven't gotten inside. There are footings of buildings in Amsterdam that are wood and many years old because they are in water saturated mud. Explain that...

Take a look at this page of links:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=Superior+Water-Logged+Lumber

Or google, underwater logging


Tom

 

[MasterBlaster]

Originally posted by Tom Dunlap Ants don' break through CODIT walls. they excavate already decayed or wounded wood. So, the wood has already started on its downward path of strength loss, the ants just move out the material.



Tom [/B]

Well, lookee there, you finally answered my question!

Now, for that new biner......

 

[SilverBlue]

Ok but seriously now Tom, we are talking about countless types of organisms in this world, including the ones in our bodies, which are responsible for breaking down the complex organic structures. Not all live in the same environment but all work on carbon based structure.

One can seal a pile of moist leaves (carbon based) and leaf mould is the end product in time. No oxygen is needed.

Concerning deep-water wood in preserved state: temperature is a factor as is oxygen –but not the same environment as a small pool of water above surface-different environmental factors. Wood in waterlogged mud, what is the chemical makeup of said mud? Not the same as a tree crotch!

*I've lived my whole life in Minnesota, you know, The Land of 10,000 [actually closer to 15,000] Lakes. I've seen plenty of fish, even ones from lakes that are frozen over.

Well Ontario is known for it’s lakes as well, have you ever seen well stocked shallow lakes or ponds with winter kill from a thick long lasting ice cap? How does all that vegetation decay under water?

*Can you show how an ice cube in a tree is damaging? Put a GLASS cup of water in the freezer. Does the glass break? Rarely, most times the ice domes up. Remember, I live in MN AND!!! I spend at least a week a year camping in the snow and ice in the Boundary Waters.

A glass (which does not absorb water) in the freezer does not go through a freeze/thaw cycle, however it’s a different story when wood absorbs water and the cycle happens which is a common occurrence every year (even in Minnesota) although water has the property of freezing from the top down (if not then there would be no life on earth), water also expands in all directions. Take a wooden cup and do the same experiment and you have a damaged cup.

I would like a new biner too please

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Originally posted by MasterBlaster
In my observations, large black ants in a tree are just as good an indicator of decay as say, fruiting bodies or whatnot.

IMO every large tree has some ant activity in it.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

MB,

I take it that you don't own Shigo's book? Yoo bad...you would be better served by them than a new biner or a beer.

Well, lookee there, you finally answered my question!

Which was? More info?

Just because ants are present, which means decay, doesn't mean the tree is so weak that it needs to be removed. It's a rare tree that doesn't have decay, and ants, like JPS observed.

My line about flooding decay pockets with water is a quote from Shigo. Makes sense to me put isn't very practical.

If freezing water in hollow trees was anything to be concerned about, it would be addressed, I think. Has anyone ever read literature about this issue? Sounds like urban [forestry] folktales.

Tom

 

[MasterBlaster]

It would be nice if Shigo's book was in the price range of a biner. Or a beer....


Those books( and ESPECIALLY THE TRAINING VIDEOS) are way, way, way overpriced!


With the internet the was it is, information like that should be somewhere - FREE!

 

[SilverBlue]

Ahem... so to answer Joshua's crotch problem?

 

[MasterBlaster]

I luv the title of this thread!

 

[MasterBlaster]

Oh, yeah! Joshua! Don't wurry bout the ants, or the water. Netree's ans was the best one!

 

[Tom Dunlap]

MB,

Ok, Shigo will give away his work at the same time that you put away your billing sheets and work for free. You're talking rubbish. Have you ever read any books related to tree work? Shgo's book "Tree Pruning" sells for about as much as a biner and a beer. Same goes for Gilman's Pruning book. Those two books are the ones I use as texts for the Arbo I class that I teach. I tell my students that after they get done studying those two books they will have a better understanding than at least 60%, and I'm being generous, of the people who are in the field doing tree work.

Do you just pick up all of your information second hand for free on the web? If you're a Licensed Arbo in LA you would have had to attended a training session. Were you one of the people who came to the training and participated or did you just attend and sign the sheet?

Your attitude is a natural out growth of the power of the web. Everyone thinks that all things can be solved through the web. That isn't a reality.

It is interesting to observe arbos at trainings devouring the sports section and then finding that they don't bother to subscribe to, and read, the various free trade magazines. That literature would make you a better arbo than reading the sports section makes you a better football player.

Tom