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Whatever, Tom. I enjoy TCI, and I tolerate AA, and have now for about 10 years now. In '96 I paid $65 for Beraneks book, soon after about $75 for Blairs Arborist Equipment. D. Douglas Dent's book was much more reasonably priced, and the Tree Climbers Companion was reflective of what all those books should cost.

As of late, I've been dragging my feet with regards to purchasing any more overpriced books - sorry. Shigo, $84 plus s and h, from Sherrill. Hmmph. And the training videos - Sheeite Muslems! There is no reason for them to cost so much. Brand new movie releases, top of the line **** are way cheaper! The worst part is that the people who really need them the most sometimes cannot afford the $299 training fee.

It don't have to be free, but it don't have to cost so much, either.

You must use an expensive biner, eh? Mine cost $18. $18 and a beer is a long way from $84, I thunk.:confused:

I've attended several of those boring, uneventful 'training sessions' even though I didn't have to because I'm NOT a licensed arborist. I just went because the TS co. owner had to, and wanted the company. I went hoping to learn something new, but that never really did happen. After 3 or 4 times I stopped going - I'd rather be climbing. So shoot me.

Whoever said I was a Lic. Arb? I'm an independant climber who works for different lic. tree services. Can ya dig it?

This forum is an example of the internet doing what it SHOULD be doing - free, or at least WAY CHEAPER information for people seeking it.

84 bucks for a book? Yeah, right.
:cool:
 
Originally posted by Tom Dunlap
I tell my students that after they get done studying those two books they will have a better understanding than at least 60%, and I'm being generous, of the people who are in the field doing tree work.
Click to expand...

I think that is VERY generous. Now I will get jumped on for being an arbo-snob, there's more to tree work than chainsaws and climbing.

Get over the cost of books. Go to college or a university. It is a biannual violation there. $84 for one book?? Cheap class. Instead, say a $84 book and a paperback manual - total $125!! Now multiply that by 5 classes. Those are just the books.

With the $84 book, you have it to use for a reference forever.

I just recommend shopping around for books. The ISA is not the only source. Check the discount book websites.

If only I had the time to read more.......:rolleyes:
 
When have we ever seen cheap arborist equipment anyways?True the Shigo books may seem to be expensivebut they are not produced in such mass numbers as to make them cost effective to the publisher.

However they are worth every penny if you care about trees.

Shigo Books

Perhaps this subject deserves it's own thread on the Commercial tree forum.
 
Books are great but they can be problematic. This industry and its knowledge bank are changing so fast that by the time a book is printed some of its contents can be obsolete.
Reading books has to be tempered with reading the JOA and trade rags, attending as many trade shows and lectures as possible, searching the internet (using source discretion), and of course, participating in these discussions to test your knowledge with your peers. For example, the old theory about carpenter ants was they only chew on decaying wood, further study has shown that they will only nest in decaying wood, but will enlarge their dens by chewing caverns into solid, healthy wood, right through CODIT walls. If you have any doubts about this, next time you encounter a nest, do a few rip cuts through it and take a close look.
As far as not being able to afford books, the library has them, and you can suggest titles and they might get them for you. The library isn't the only place to borrow books, I hit up my friends, and trade or borrow books and magazines.
 
Cool, Mike. I just KNEW those big black ants were a good indicator of problems to come. I hardly ever see them in trims, but they allways seem to be around in TD.
 
Now don't go taking that one little piece of information and use it to kill every tree with ants. The reason you don't see them on trims is simply that you are not cutting the tree open. As already stated, ants are in almost every tree.
Ants can be just one small stress to a tree, a healthy tree will have no problem dealing with them.
 
Read my last post - I don't allude to any of that. What makes you think I would react in the manner you speak? I was just making a casual observation.:cool:
 
How about that one?:)

And whats wrong with Butch? My birthname is Boyd Edgar Ballowe, II.

My friends call me by the nickname my Mother gave me. So what?:confused:
 
Mike, Don't forget the wonderful, magical tool called interlibrary loan. My local library has a couple of mediocre tree care books. BUT...they have located every title I have requested and had it for me to read within a few weeks.:cool:
 
Don’t worry about Mike, Butch we keep visualizing him as Homer Simpson eating a donut with a hand saw going D’OH! After a bad cut. :D it's all in the avatar. (And stop peeking under my avitar's skirt).

Thank you..come again
 
Maple

The ants may or may not be farming aphids in the tree. They call it Sugar maple because the sap is sweet and ants like that so if there is anyplace the sap oozes the ants will come like it was a picnic. The water, a teaspoon or less of veg oil will kill the mosquitoes living there in the skunk water. The tree house? Put it on stilts do not nail it to the tree, the tree will grow around the tree house.
 
Bump, still a good read, some good attitudes toward learning too I notice. :deadhorse:
 
My 2 cents are:
Carpenter ants, going about their business disrupt live cells. I've no problem treating for control.

Smaller specie of ant indicate a peircing sucking insect in the canopy and i take a closer look for the culprit.
 
woodweasel said:
My 2 cents are:
Carpenter ants, going about their business disrupt live cells. I've no problem treating for control.
Click to expand...
If you consider that ants are virtually in every tree, and you do pesticide applications for every tree with ants, where do you stop?
Many people are afraid of carpenter ants because they are known to move in when there is a leak in the roof of their home. The ants move in to the rotting wood to nest. The homeowner confuses cause and effect, blaming the ants instead of the leak. The same holds true in trees, first there's rotting wood, then the ants move in, they can't chew into healthy wood, not the ants we see here in the US anyway.

Spraying won't solve the problem of a decay pocket, and once the pesticide wears off, new ants will move back in. And as Shigo points out, ants probably benefit the tree by slowing decay advancement in these existing areas of decay. In the absence of studies confirming whether or not ants are harmful, I consider spraying pesticides to kill them unethical.
woodweasel said:
Smaller specie of ant indicate a peircing sucking insect in the canopy and i take a closer look for the culprit.
Click to expand...
If you need a close look to see whether or not there are sucking insects in a tree, like the aphids I assume we're talking about here, chances are there's no need to spray pesticides.
Leaf issues with trees are seldom something to be concerned about. The fact is they are usually a minor stress to the tree's overall health. One could argue these minor day to day, month to month, year to year stresses have an overall slowing of the trees growth and in the long run, make for a more stress tolerant and long lived tree.
You shouldn't try to raise your trees in a protective bubble.
 
Mike Maas said:
In the absence of studies confirming whether or not ants are harmful, I consider spraying pesticides to kill them unethical.

If you need a close look to see whether or not there are sucking insects in a tree, like the aphids I assume we're talking about here, chances are there's no need to spray pesticides.
Leaf issues with trees are seldom something to be concerned about. The fact is they are usually a minor stress to the tree's overall health. One could argue these minor day to day, month to month, year to year stresses have an overall slowing of the trees growth and in the long run, make for a more stress tolerant and long lived tree.
You shouldn't try to raise your trees in a protective bubble.
Click to expand...

Whooly adelgid is a minor stress to the tree, huh. Wow, I read how you manage tree health with sucker growth and now you say insects that suck plant juices are a minor stress. It takes only 5 adelgids on 1 inch of twig to shut down growth.

"Leaf issues with trees are seldom something to be concerned about"???? Trees need that foliage, Maas.
 
It's Mr. Maas to you, but I didn't mean to put a bee in your bonnet.

If you read my post you'll see I said, "...the aphids I assume we're talking about here..."
I didn't know the "Whooly adelgid" had anything to do with ants, but we don't see a problem with those insects here too much, so I'm no expert.
I simply believe in many cases it's better to let nature run it's course, instead of spraying pesticides on every insect you notice. Obviously there are times when it might be best to spray, but only as a last resort, after, or in conjunction with, giving the tree optimal cultural benefits. Examples might be watering during droughts, mulching, soil test followed by indicated changes, and using products that are environmentally friendlier than some of the harsh pesticides.
Remember, trees need foliage, but they necessarily don't need it all. Look at the leaves on any tree come later in the fall. They almost all have percentages damaged by fungus, chewed off by insects, missing completely from wind storms, and yes, even damage by sucking insects.
When you spray pesticides, do you only affect the target? Do beneficial insects get it too? Does any of the product get on you, or get in the water table and cause cancer? Is the homeowners lawn and soil contaminated with it? What does the spray do to the interconnection of different life forms from micro-organisms to mammals?
 

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