wet crotch with bugs

[Ed Roland]

It's Mr. Maas to you, but I didn't mean to put a bee in your bonnet.

If you read my post you'll see I said, "...the aphids I assume we're talking about here..."
I didn't know the "Whooly adelgid" had anything to do with ants, but we don't see a problem with those insects here too much, so I'm no expert.
I simply believe in many cases it's better to let nature run it's course, instead of spraying pesticides on every insect you notice. Obviously there are times when it might be best to spray, but only as a last resort, after, or in conjunction with, giving the tree optimal cultural benefits. Examples might be watering during droughts, mulching, soil test followed by indicated changes, and using products that are environmentally friendlier than some of the harsh pesticides.
Remember, trees need foliage, but they necessarily don't need it all. Look at the leaves on any tree come later in the fall. They almost all have percentages damaged by fungus, chewed off by insects, missing completely from wind storms, and yes, even damage by sucking insects.
When you spray pesticides, do you only affect the target? Do beneficial insects get it too? Does any of the product get on you, or get in the water table and cause cancer? Is the homeowners lawn and soil contaminated with it? What does the spray do to the interconnection of different life forms from micro-organisms to mammals?

Couple of things there, al gore jr.

1. We are all professionals and its very unlikely anyone here broadcast sprays landscapes to control insects. We all select pesticides that are more target specific and less toxic to other species or the environment.

2. Are we to assume you are able to erradicate a high population of hardscale on mature Quercus with cultural practices?

3. The woolly adelgid is an aphid.

4. According to Dr. Bruce Fraedrich, Dr. Booth and Dr. Smiley of the Bartlett Lab Facility in NC proper aphid control begins with managing the ants on the plant.

5. No bees in my bonnet but as for using "Mr" before your name, respect is earned, not demanded.

 

[treeseer]

1. We are all professionals ...We all select pesticides that are more target specific and less toxic to other species or the environment/QUOTE]ALL?

proper aphid control begins with managing the ants on the plant.

When is it proper to control aphids?

5. No bees in my bonnet but as for using "Mr" before your name, respect is earned, not demanded.

wheeze, lighten up, willya? Your tone is on the verge of rude and harassing. Why go out of your way to fuss and fight?

Urban soils are often disturbed, with a jumble of material from different horizons interspersed. Touching the soil also can reveal much about its properties. For example, if moist soil is rolled into a cylinder and it crumbles easily, it may be low in clay. A sour smell indicates anaerobic, low-oxygen conditions hostile to root growth, while a sweet smell can signify that beneficial, aerobic bacteria and fungi are at work. A hand lens is useful in finding fine roots, mycorrhizal strands, and other interesting things, such as soil insects.
Earthworms, arthropods, and other organisms aerate the soil and convert organic matter and minerals into forms more available to the tree. A number of references have reported that one cup of undisturbed native soil may contain the following: 200 billion bacteria, 20 billion protozoa, 100,000 meters of fungi, 100,000 nematodes and 50,000 arthropods. There are ways to encourage beneficial soil organisms:
• Use organic mulches for weed control, and amend the soil with composted organic material to provide a food source for soil organisms.
• Avoid over irrigation and excessive use of fertilizers, so the organisms do not drown or burn.
• Irrigate during periods of drought. Soil organism activity may be reduced due to dry soil conditions that are common in certain times of the year.
• Avoid unwarranted pesticide applications. Some fungicides, insecticides, and herbicides are harmful to various types of soil organisms.
• Use organic mulches to reduce soil compaction forces, moderate temperature, and maintain soil oxygen levels needed by beneficial soil organisms and roots.
Uncompacted soils have less root rot because they have better drainage, thanks to more pore space that air and water travel through. This pore space helps define the soil’s structure.

 

[Ed Roland]

1. We are all professionals ...We all select pesticides that are more target specific and less toxic to other species or the environment/QUOTE]ALL?When is it proper to control aphids?QUOTE]

When they are beyond the threshold of what the plant can handle. Kind of a silly question seer. Would you like to try and tout the benefits of inoculating landscape ornamentals with aphids?


Tone is in the eye of the beholder. I sit here with a smile on my face how bout you?

 

[treeseer]

[/QUOTE]ALL?When is it proper to control aphids?

When they are beyond the threshold of what the plant can handle. Kind of a silly question seer.

good question good answer, but it also may be proper to control when client tolerance is exceeded, even when tree tolerance has not. sticky cars and such. i rarely see aphids damaging trees that much. river birches and liriodendron sometimes.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

The woolly adelgid is an aphid.

I'd of thought it was an adelgid.

Aren't aphids from the family Aphidoidea?

 

[Boa07]

Great post treeseer , thanks for the Meilleur article for anyone who doesn't get Arborist News.
Those of us still climbing and cutting often neglect the soil and roots and PHC in our daily work load, and I personally feel that this is an area of Urban Arboriculture that in the next 5-10yrs will come to dominate what we do to manage trees.

I've said elsewhere that the fact we can't hear the tone or inflection in our written posts often leads to misunderstandings and people feeling things that were never intended in the original post.

The odd smiley can help clear up just what the underlying feeling is you know

 

[Ed Roland]

I've said elsewhere that the fact we can't hear the tone or inflection in our written posts often leads to misunderstandings and people feeling things that were never intended in the original post.

The odd smiley can help clear up just what the underlying feeling is you know

So true

 

[Ed Roland]

I'd of thought it was an adelgid.

Aren't aphids from the family Aphidoidea?

Ive no idea, im a paint salesman.

 

[Ekka]

Ive no idea, im a paint salesman.

And which paint is best to put on fresh cuts?

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Wow, I read how you manage tree health with sucker growth and now you say insects that suck plant juices are a minor stress.

That's one of the main reasons to come here, to learn new ideas. Feel free to post questions on that thread if you're having trouble wrapping your head around the idea that branches don't suck the life out of trees.

Another idea that is hard for arborist to wrap their heads around is the difference between long and short term tree care.
You recommend controlling ants when there is an aphid problem, which seems like a round about way of getting to the problem. First, the chemicals used to control ants are a bit nastier than those to control aphids, and second, the aphids will continue to thrive even without the ants, which means a second pesticide to control them.
Now next year, the applications all start over again.
One of the outcomes that we see in areas where lots of pesticide applications are made, is the decline of populations of the beneficial insects. We then see outbreaks of what we consider pest insect populations, like Hardscale.opcorn:

 

[treeseer]

That's one of the main reasons to come here, to learn new ideas. Feel free to post questions on that thread if you're having trouble wrapping your head around the idea that branches don't suck the life out of trees.

Another idea that is hard for arborist to wrap their heads around is the difference between long and short term tree care.
You recommend controlling ants when there is an aphid problem, which seems like a round about way of getting to the problem. First, the chemicals used to control ants are a bit nastier than those to control aphids, and second, the aphids will continue to thrive even without the ants, which means a second pesticide to control them.
Now next year, the applications all start over again.
One of the outcomes that we see in areas where lots of pesticide applications are made, is the decline of populations of the beneficial insects. We then see outbreaks of what we consider pest insect populations, like Hardscale.opcorn:

Hmm, what about this, someone is looking at the bigger picture...

sorry the pdf link chopped off the first page; here is a htm copy. o and if you do not get Arborist News,, get it! ISA membership is the best investment an arborist can make--you get plugged into a lot of information and energy.

 

[BayouTree]

4. According to Dr. Bruce Fraedrich, Dr. Booth and Dr. Smiley of the Bartlett Lab Facility in NC proper aphid control begins with managing the ants on the plant.

What is the purpose of managing the ants? Arn't they just sugar ants feeding on the honeydew produced by the aphids? These type don't damage the tree do they? I also thought the ants would be good about keeping other insects off of the tree.

 

[MickDundee]

And whats wrong with Butch? My birthname is Boyd Edgar Ballowe, II.

Crikey, is it Boyd Edgar Ballowe 2 best known as MB

This blokes a legend, a peculiar one, you see, what you do is go to Town Talk Newspaper Archives and type in his name, then read the top two listings, and this is public information ... you can buy a full copy for like $2.95 and it sure is interesting reading.

 

[Bermie]

That's one of the main reasons to come here, to learn new ideas. Feel free to post questions on that thread if you're having trouble wrapping your head around the idea that branches don't suck the life out of trees.

Another idea that is hard for arborist to wrap their heads around is the difference between long and short term tree care.
You recommend controlling ants when there is an aphid problem, which seems like a round about way of getting to the problem. First, the chemicals used to control ants are a bit nastier than those to control aphids, and second, the aphids will continue to thrive even without the ants, which means a second pesticide to control them.
Now next year, the applications all start over again.
One of the outcomes that we see in areas where lots of pesticide applications are made, is the decline of populations of the beneficial insects. We then see outbreaks of what we consider pest insect populations, like Hardscale.opcorn:

+1 Mike, rep is full!

It seems some folks are too quick to pull out the chemicals, there is definitely a time and place for them but for me it's the last resort.
Now, I will say we do not have all the nasty bugs and fungi that you do, being an isolated oceanic island with pretty strict quarantine regulations.

But here is an example:
In the mid 40's two kinds of scale insect were accidentally introduced on a shipment of ornamental junipers - Cedar scale and Juniper scale. Our dominant forest tree was the Bermuda cedar (Juniperus bermudiana) endemic, and higly prized for shipbuilding, homes and furniture. By the early 50's 95% of the trees were dead, Bermuda looked like a moonscape.
Long story short....we have reintroduced the Bermuda cedar to the landscape, propagating by seed and cuttings, in the early days (80's) we used a lot of spray for aphids, red spider mite and scale. We needed to in order to establish more stock Now in the 2000's when we plant cedars, the generally do just fine on their own. Beneficial insects ,that were introduced back in the day, predate nasties, the surviving cedars that we have used as stock seemed to have tighter overlapping leaf scales so they don't get such a burden of scale as to kill it. I have planted many in my garden and in nature reserves and have yet to put ANY chemicals on them. Even the self seeded ones that I dug up have scale on them but are doing just fine.
Every so often one will succumb, but when its just one out of 100's, leave the spray in the shed!

Just a bit of a success story!:rockn:

 

[a_lopa]

How about that one?

And whats wrong with Butch? My birthname is Boyd Edgar Ballowe, II.

Ive heard that name before but where? Ahhh thats right the town talk newspaper.

 

[hornett22]

try motel 6 :biggrinbounce2:

 

[treeseer]

If anyone has the book Abiotic Disorders look on page 211 for a picture of foam/slime on a poisoned tree.:yoyo:

 

[Ed Roland]

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Cool picture.
Those ants sure are ass kissers.