what does a knocking rod sound like?

[Whitespider]

Kurt fired it up today and it sounded like a REALLY loud rap like a really loose lifter on a chevy.

You're there to hear the noise, I'm not... but...
A rod (bearing) doesn't normally just "go bad" between shutting the engine down at last use and firing it back up. The CH15 uses hydraulic lifters, and if one of those gets stuck the engine will rattle like rocks in a metal can. I'm not a believer in fuel and oil "treatments" as a general practice... but I do use them if the situation warrants. A gummed-up and stuck, or sticky hydraulic lifter can real often be cleaned-up and "freed-up" by using Sea Foam in the crank case oil... I've seen it work dozens of times. Usually I change oil and filter when adding the Sea Foam (I put a bit more Sea Foam in than what the label recommends), then run the engine something over idle speed (varying from ¼ to ½ throttle) for a while... you can actually hear it working, the noise just fades away. I normally run the engine another 15 minutes or so after the noise is gone, shut it down and allow it to sit overnight to do it's "gum-removing" thing, then run it again for another 30 minutes or so before changing oil and filter again. If the lift doesn't quiet-down during the first run (say, after 30 minutes or so), it often will during the next day's run.

Oh... I use 10w30 in all the engines (small and large), I buy it in 2-gallon jugs at the fleet store... it's Mystik JT-8 brand, heavy duty diesel synthetic blend. I don't buy it because it's a "heavy duty" oil, or a "diesel" oil, or because it's a "synthetic" blend... I buy it because the 2-gallon jugs are the best damn price-per-quart of any on the shelf. I didn't use a "synthetic" of any sort until the last couple years... but now the synthetic "blends" are as cheap, or cheaper than the 100% dino oils (if you can find them). The small engines I use during mid-winter get switched over to a 5w20 sometime in December, and back to 10w30 in late March/early April.
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[Patrick62]

Engine is here, installed, and running with a crankcase full of mobile 1. This one starts way better! My old engine must have been sliding down hill for quite some time. I just looked it up, and they are quoting a interval of 100 hours on oil change. We will see. I should stock up on filters as well.
Tinytach is really nice for keeping track! (I gotta get one for that little diesel on the other splitter)

 

[Whitespider]

I change oil in small engines every 25 hours or so, change filters (if they have one) at 50 hours. I put about 100 hours on the grass cuttin' machine per season... it gets four oil changes per season, a new filter at about mid season, and one when I put it away for winter.
If ya' think about the conditions most small engines operate in, 100 hours is just way too darn long.

Look at it this way...
An automobile averaging 30 MPH for 100 hours would travel 3000 miles... but, even at 65 MPH, the engine RPM would be something less than 3000 for most cars. Your small engine operates at 3300-3600 RPM's. Now think of that same automobile traveling at an engine RPM of 3300-3600 RPM for 100 hours, approximately 75 MPH (or more)... that's 7500 miles (or more) between oil changes. Would you run your car 7500 miles between oil changes?? That automobile likely has advanced air induction/filtration and computer controlled fuel injection/ignition timing... your small engine uses a carburetor based on a 150 year old design controlled by a mechanical governor, and a (comparatively) primitive ignition system.

If ya' think about it, 100 hours is just way, way, way too darn long.
Really, about the only thing ya' can do to increase the lifespan of a small engine is to keep clean oil in it. The Tecumseh in my 1968 Sears lawn tractor, that was my grass cuttin' machine for 15 years or so, has something way over 2000 hours on it... still don't use any more oil than it ever did, still runs like it always did, even starts at temperatures well below zero. The Kohler in my 1992 JD lawn tractor leaks a little at the crankcase halves, but it don't use any oil (no blow-by) and starts/runs perfectly (also over 2000 hours)... heck, the engine is the only part of it that ain't wore-out. There's no reason for a small engine to wear-out before the equipment it powers (engine breakage is another thing, that's just luck-of-the-draw).
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[sb47]

I have a Kabota B5200 that I bought in 1985 with a 3 cylinder diesel in it.
I mow 4 acres every week, sometimes twice a week if we get a lot of rain.
I use it to push brush piles, till garden, spreed dirt and what ever else it can do with it.
I only change the oil once a year whether it needs it or not.
The hour meter quit working many years ago so I have no idea how many hours she has on her.
She will be 30 years old next year and she has never been worked on.

I also have a 1994 chevy truck that has 280K and I only change the oil once a year as well.
I run Rotella in both.

I have a 2007 Honda 400ex quad with a built race motor and I have thousands of hours on it.
I use Havoline in that one and change the oil every 20 hours.

My splitter is 12 years old and she also has thousands of hours on it.
I use Any full synthetic in it.
I change the oil every now and then.

Same goes with both Honda generators I have.

I somehow seem to get good results no mater what schedule I use.

 

[Marshy]

You're there to hear the noise, I'm not... but...
A rod (bearing) doesn't normally just "go bad" between shutting the engine down at last use and firing it back up. The CH15 uses hydraulic lifters, and if one of those gets stuck the engine will rattle like rocks in a metal can. I'm not a believer in fuel and oil "treatments" as a general practice... but I do use them if the situation warrants. A gummed-up and stuck, or sticky hydraulic lifter can real often be cleaned-up and "freed-up" by using Sea Foam in the crank case oil... I've seen it work dozens of times. Usually I change oil and filter when adding the Sea Foam (I put a bit more Sea Foam in than what the label recommends), then run the engine something over idle speed (varying from ¼ to ½ throttle) for a while... you can actually hear it working, the noise just fades away. I normally run the engine another 15 minutes or so after the noise is gone, shut it down and allow it to sit overnight to do it's "gum-removing" thing, then run it again for another 30 minutes or so before changing oil and filter again. If the lift doesn't quiet-down during the first run (say, after 30 minutes or so), it often will during the next day's run.

Oh... I use 10w30 in all the engines (small and large), I buy it in 2-gallon jugs at the fleet store... it's Mystik JT-8 brand, heavy duty diesel synthetic blend. I don't buy it because it's a "heavy duty" oil, or a "diesel" oil, or because it's a "synthetic" blend... I buy it because the 2-gallon jugs are the best damn price-per-quart of any on the shelf. I didn't use a "synthetic" of any sort until the last couple years... but now the synthetic "blends" are as cheap, or cheaper than the 100% dino oils (if you can find them). The small engines I use during mid-winter get switched over to a 5w20 sometime in December, and back to 10w30 in late March/early April.
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I'd just add one comment about the Seafoam as an engine treatment, I dont recommend putting the engine under heavy loads while your using it. The load capacity of your oil is reduced and working the engine hard with it in the engine can cause damage to your bearings. I have heard a few events of this from my motorcycle forum. Running the engine at idle and shightly higher than idle and letting it siver over night is fine IMO but I wouldnt do any work it it while its in there. Drain the oil/seafoam and fill it up with fresh oil and filter and run it. The CH and CV Kohler lifters seem to be a little sensative to oil quality and typically act up when an oil change is due. I reasearched it when my CV20 started making a lifter rattle. I could probably post a video if it as my mover started doing it the other day after I lifted the deck to remove the blades to sharpen them...

 

[Deleted member 83629]

vroom bang bang bang vroom vroom vroom bang bang bang bang clunk bang bang.

 

[Patrick62]

vroom bang bang bang vroom vroom vroom bang bang bang bang clunk bang bang.

Chitty Chitty bang bang Wasn't there a movie like that? Hmmm a maybach would make a interesting engine on a splitter... lol

To quote another:
That automobile likely has advanced air induction/filtration and computer controlled fuel injection/ignition timing... your small engine uses a carburetor based on a 150 year old design controlled by a mechanical governor, and a (comparatively) primitive ignition system.

Well ya got part of that right. but the Kohler has a pretty decent filter on it. Better than the truck most likely. Everything has a carburetor on it out here, except the diesels.... but I get the point.

I don't thing that 100 hours is terrible, and at $20 per oil change with the synthetic stuff, 25 hours would be sort of expensive. Maybe I will see how dirty it looks at 50 hours? For the sake of arguement, the engines without oil pumps or filters would require very frequent service or suffer a short lifespan. The Kohler command is a very serious engine with a full oil system (20-30 psi).

 

[Deleted member 83629]

that knock could be piston slap i have seen it in older cast iron K241 K301 kohlers including a 25 hp command
a severely carboned head will do it also.

 

[brenndatomu]

Look at it this way...
An automobile averaging 30 MPH for 100 hours would travel 3000 miles... but, even at 65 MPH, the engine RPM would be something less than 3000 for most cars. Your small engine operates at 3300-3600 RPM's. Now think of that same automobile traveling at an engine RPM of 3300-3600 RPM for 100 hours, approximately 75 MPH (or more)... that's 7500 miles (or more) between oil changes. Would you run your car 7500 miles between oil changes?? That automobile likely has advanced air induction/filtration and computer controlled fuel injection/ignition timing...
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Yes, yes I would (and have) run the car 7500 miles between drain intervals. A lot of manufactures recommend drain intervals between 5 and 8000 miles on newer models now. Well, for highway driving anyway.
I have went that long on the wifes 99 Accord (and others) oil didn't even look that dirty when I drained it, oh, and that is with 139k on the car. But I get what you're sayin about cars having the advantage of computer controls, etc.
We have went to 100 hr oil changes on the newer lawn tractors at work as per mfgr recommendation. (pressurized oil with filter, liquid cooled too)
We went 50 hrs on the older stuff previously, if motors were ever worn out and replaced, it was generally with MANY thousands of hours on them. But most of that stuff was the old splash lube w/o filter...

 

[stihly dan]

You're there to hear the noise, I'm not... but...
A rod (bearing) doesn't normally just "go bad" between shutting the engine down at last use and firing it back up. The CH15 uses hydraulic lifters, and if one of those gets stuck the engine will rattle like rocks in a metal can. I'm not a believer in fuel and oil "treatments" as a general practice... but I do use them if the situation warrants. A gummed-up and stuck, or sticky hydraulic lifter can real often be cleaned-up and "freed-up" by using Sea Foam in the crank case oil... I've seen it work dozens of times. Usually I change oil and filter when adding the Sea Foam (I put a bit more Sea Foam in than what the label recommends), then run the engine something over idle speed (varying from ¼ to ½ throttle) for a while... you can actually hear it working, the noise just fades away. I normally run the engine another 15 minutes or so after the noise is gone, shut it down and allow it to sit overnight to do it's "gum-removing" thing, then run it again for another 30 minutes or so before changing oil and filter again. If the lift doesn't quiet-down during the first run (say, after 30 minutes or so), it often will during the next day's run.


Really Spidey? What happened to the thread of only put in what the bottle recommends? HMMMM changing ones tune as he sobers up?

Oh... I use 10w30 in all the engines (small and large), I buy it in 2-gallon jugs at the fleet store... it's Mystik JT-8 brand, heavy duty diesel synthetic blend. I don't buy it because it's a "heavy duty" oil, or a "diesel" oil, or because it's a "synthetic" blend... I buy it because the 2-gallon jugs are the best damn price-per-quart of any on the shelf. I didn't use a "synthetic" of any sort until the last couple years... but now the synthetic "blends" are as cheap, or cheaper than the 100% dino oils (if you can find them). The small engines I use during mid-winter get switched over to a 5w20 sometime in December, and back to 10w30 in late March/early April.
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[Whitespider]

Really Spidey? What happened to the thread of only put in what the bottle recommends? HMMMM changing ones tune as he sobers up?[/black]

What?? Hardly a tune change...
That statement had to do with mixing two-cycle oil with gasoline, I stated that I follow the label instructions... the label on the oil container‼
What does that have to do with this thread?? Where does the label on my engine oil state when to change oil in my four-cycle engine??

I'd just add one comment about the Seafoam as an engine treatment, I dont recommend putting the engine under heavy loads while your using it.

I agree... I agree 110%.
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[Deleted member 83629]

change oil every 150 change it at 100 if under dusty condtions is what i follow i use delo sae 30 and wix oil filters.

 

[Patrick62]

Now I understand Everything. I was wandering around Amazon looking for a supply of filters for this Kohler... and stumbled upon review from someone that sounded like it made sense.... I will quote here:

They are selling a yellow painted filter using a Champion Laboratories "Eco" design with this part number. A quality oil filter has a metal interior with holes to allow the oil to flow through it. This metal cyclinder supports the paper filter element. The "eco" design uses a plastic grid with large openings. This does not fully support the filter and allows pieces of the filer element to pass into the engine. This naturally causes blockages which leads to engine failure. If you want a quality oil filter for your Kohler engine, use a Purolator L10241 (or PL10241) or the Wix 51348 as substitutes for this filter. The Champion Laboratores "Eco" design is probably worse than a Fram oil filter. I would give the "eco" filter a zero stars if that was possible.

Oh gawd. Guess what color that Kohler filter is on this engine? Yep. Yellow. Now up until Kurt fired it up that morning it was running fine. I split a half cord the day before. no problems. He fired it up drove it over to another pile and then it started clattering. I restarted the engine and checked the oil pressure (I put a gauge on it years ago) and it was reading normal. I said that day that somehow something probably blocking a oil passage to the crank. Now I know what to look for when I take it apart this winter. It literally was only knocking for a just a minute or two. I will mic the crank and see if it can be saved.

Okay. Now what to purchase for a filter for the replacement engine. This guy is quoting the purolater 10241 or the Wix 51348
Is there any preference among the readers here? I don't need another catastrophe due to crappy filters!!!

Thanks in advance.

Th

 

[sb47]

Now I understand Everything. I was wandering around Amazon looking for a supply of filters for this Kohler... and stumbled upon review from someone that sounded like it made sense.... I will quote here:

They are selling a yellow painted filter using a Champion Laboratories "Eco" design with this part number. A quality oil filter has a metal interior with holes to allow the oil to flow through it. This metal cyclinder supports the paper filter element. The "eco" design uses a plastic grid with large openings. This does not fully support the filter and allows pieces of the filer element to pass into the engine. This naturally causes blockages which leads to engine failure. If you want a quality oil filter for your Kohler engine, use a Purolator L10241 (or PL10241) or the Wix 51348 as substitutes for this filter. The Champion Laboratores "Eco" design is probably worse than a Fram oil filter. I would give the "eco" filter a zero stars if that was possible.

Oh gawd. Guess what color that Kohler filter is on this engine? Yep. Yellow. Now up until Kurt fired it up that morning it was running fine. I split a half cord the day before. no problems. He fired it up drove it over to another pile and then it started clattering. I restarted the engine and checked the oil pressure (I put a gauge on it years ago) and it was reading normal. I said that day that somehow something probably blocking a oil passage to the crank. Now I know what to look for when I take it apart this winter. It literally was only knocking for a just a minute or two. I will mic the crank and see if it can be saved.

Okay. Now what to purchase for a filter for the replacement engine. This guy is quoting the purolater 10241 or the Wix 51348
Is there any preference among the readers here? I don't need another catastrophe due to crappy filters!!!

Thanks in advance.

Th

Call Kohler and find out what they recommend. Or refer to the owners manual.

 

[Whitespider]

Kohler will recommend "Kohler" oil filters... which, as stated above, are nothing but re-branded, re-painted, and over-priced something else (I can't confirm Champion Eco).

I use a lot of Wix filters on small engines... they're reasonably priced, good filters, available at many auto parts stores.
I use Wix or Motorcraft filters on the pickup, van and car (all fords). But be warned, the Motorcraft filters at box-stores are not the same as those purchased at the Fort dealerships... weighing them will easily confirm that. The "good" Motorcraft filters are made by Purolator (but to Ford specifications, not identical to Purolator branded), I have no idea who makes the cheaper box-store Motorcraft filters... but I wouldn't be surprised to learn Fram.
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[Whitespider]

I don't thing that 100 hours is terrible, and at $20 per oil change with the synthetic stuff 25 hours would be sort of expensive.
The Kohler command is a very serious engine with a full oil system (20-30 psi).

You're paying way too much for your oil...
Seriously, I see that sort of thinking as self-defeating. I mean, think about that... "the oil I'm using is too expensive to change very often, so I'm gonna' run it longer." What good is expensive oil if the darn stuff is dirty and contaminated?? It's self defeating. Just because it expensive, or synthetic, don't mean it won't get just as dirty and just as contaminated as any other oil.

I have two Kohler Command engines... I know exactly what they are. OK, so they have a full-pressure lubrication system instead of the old splash-it-around system. That means small oil ports, automotive style crank/rod bearings, hydraulic lifters, an oil pump, etc... all of which are even more reasons to keep really clean oil in it. An oil filter can only do so much... it filters out the chunks, it don't clean the oil. I'd take clean cheap dino oil over dirty or contaminated expensive synthetic any day.

I keep my thinking on engine oil pretty simple...

1. Any oil is better than no oil.
2. Clean oil is better than dirty oil.

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[john taliaferro]

1. Any oil is better than no oil.
2. Clean oil is better than dirty oil.

 

[GVSII]

Kohler will recommend "Kohler" oil filters... which, as stated above, are nothing but re-branded, re-painted, and over-priced something else (I can't confirm Champion Eco).

I use a lot of Wix filters on small engines... they're reasonably priced, good filters, available at many auto parts stores.
I use Wix or Motorcraft filters on the pickup, van and car (all fords). But be warned, the Motorcraft filters at box-stores are not the same as those purchased at the Fort dealerships... weighing them will easily confirm that. The "good" Motorcraft filters are made by Purolator (but to Ford specifications, not identical to Purolator branded), I have no idea who makes the cheaper box-store Motorcraft filters... but I wouldn't be surprised to learn Fram.
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Kohler will recommend "Kohler" oil filters... which, as stated above, are nothing but re-branded, re-painted, and over-priced something else (I can't confirm Champion Eco).

I use a lot of Wix filters on small engines... they're reasonably priced, good filters, available at many auto parts stores.
I use Wix or Motorcraft filters on the pickup, van and car (all fords). But be warned, the Motorcraft filters at box-stores are not the same as those purchased at the Fort dealerships... weighing them will easily confirm that. The "good" Motorcraft filters are made by Purolator (but to Ford specifications, not identical to Purolator branded), I have no idea who makes the cheaper box-store Motorcraft filters... but I wouldn't be surprised to learn Fram.
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Your comment regarding Motorcraft filters is pure bull crap!A Motorcraft filter from Walmart or a Ford dealer is the same.The only difference is price.

 

[GVSII]

Your comment regarding Motorcraft filters is pure bull crap!A Motorcraft filter from Walmart or a Ford dealer is the same.The only difference is price.

 

[Whitespider]

Your comment regarding Motorcraft filters is pure bull crap!A Motorcraft filter from Walmart or a Ford dealer is the same.The only difference is price.

Go buy one of each (same number), weigh them (or cut them open if you'd rather), and then come back and tell me I'm full of bull crap... until then... well...
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