What does the Echo "death rattle" sound like?

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Sabertooth said:
Echo is a avg. saw IMO. They're not a bad pro by any means, but I wouldn't buy them TBH.

I've never come across a chain saw that had this " Death rattle" These things normally last forever after they're broken in. Never had an Echo, but I heard great thing about here smaller models. Never had an engine blow on my saws; just the seals on the 15+ saws.
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Thanks. Having looked for info. on the smaller Echos, I came across mention of this inevitable rattle enough times that I figured it was something well-characterized, and something people could tell me about. Apparently those who've experienced it are relatively few, though I don't doubt it's happened. Good to know, and thanks for chiming in.

The gravity of talking brands is hard to overcome, I guess. So on that note, I got this saw because the deal came along. I have other Echo equipment that was given to me, and that was severely neglected. I was pleased with how easy it was to service. It continues to work very well despite the abuse.

It does seem that Echo is tier II. I have a Stihl with the new stratified charge engine, and it's better than the small Echo. However the new Echo 550 I have, also with the strato engine, just seems like a slower 261. In my opinion, the Stihl offerings in this smaller displacement range are spotty.

Thanks again.

Where are the guys that have heard the rattle so often?
 
The first time I heard this expression it came from our overseas Echo "basher", pretty sure the guy is from Austrailia, goes by PGG or something close to that. Anyhow, claims that all the Echo's he has had experience with die a miserable death after developing mechanical problems early in life. I respect his opinion on the subject, as I would anyone elses, but we have had absolutely not once single engine problem with any Echo power equipment. This incudes my string trimmer with about a zillion hours on it, garden tiller, leaf blower, and several other Echo chainsaws.

Of course, we do know how to mix fuel and adjust carburetors. Maybe this helps some? As an experiment, I took two of our Echo saws and have been running the dog-living-piss out of them for several years now. Not just once in a while, they both see use several times a week, if not more often than that. I cut much bigger material with them than they were designed for, and "push" them hard cross-cutting knotty chunks in the wood pile, dirty wood that we've skidded to the landing, etc.

Both of these saws, one CS-360T, and one CS-370 continue to run flawlessly in all areas. I've developed quite a bit of respect for both of them. The 360T has cut limbed/cut up as many as 70 trees in one weekend on some bigger jobs, and the CS-370 has became my "got to" saw for smaller jobs, never make a single outing without it.

I've worn out at least half a dozen chains between the pair, and other than "normal" maintenence, neither one has had anything done to it anyplace. If and when either one developes this "death rattle" problem, I'll make sure to start a thread about it.....Cliff
 
Cliff R said:
I've worn out at least half a dozen chains between the pair, and other than "normal" maintenence, neither one has had anything done to it anyplace. If and when either one developes this "death rattle" problem, I'll make sure to start a thread about it.....Cliff
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Thanks Cliff, yes, I've read your posts and PGG's about Echos. I'll follow-up if mine catches the rattle too (I could still use some more info. on how it sounds), though I'm not going to put as many hours on it as you will since I usually use a bigger saw. And sure, sure, if it stops running, I will know it had a problem.

You must have adjusted the carb on a CS-370. Did you find that the H jet has an usually large range in terms of number of turns? Mine came from the factory at several turns out, though Walbro says that members of their WT series are all default set at 1.25 turns out. Know what size jet is in yours?

There was a good discussion about jet size and range of adjustment on this forum. I wonder if, in addition to being shipped set too lean, these Echos are shipped with smaller-than-optimal jets that require many screw-turns to adequately open. That would be too bad.
 
Cliff R said:
The first time I heard this expression it came from our overseas Echo "basher", pretty sure the guy is from Austrailia, goes by PGG or something close to that. Anyhow, claims that all the Echo's he has had experience with die a miserable death after developing mechanical problems early in life. I respect his opinion on the subject, as I would anyone elses, but we have had absolutely not once single engine problem with any Echo power equipment. This incudes my string trimmer with about a zillion hours on it, garden tiller, leaf blower, and several other Echo chainsaws.

Of course, we do know how to mix fuel and adjust carburetors. Maybe this helps some? As an experiment, I took two of our Echo saws and have been running the dog-living-piss out of them for several years now. Not just once in a while, they both see use several times a week, if not more often than that. I cut much bigger material with them than they were designed for, and "push" them hard cross-cutting knotty chunks in the wood pile, dirty wood that we've skidded to the landing, etc.

Both of these saws, one CS-360T, and one CS-370 continue to run flawlessly in all areas. I've developed quite a bit of respect for both of them. The 360T has cut limbed/cut up as many as 70 trees in one weekend on some bigger jobs, and the CS-370 has became my "got to" saw for smaller jobs, never make a single outing without it.

I've worn out at least half a dozen chains between the pair, and other than "normal" maintenence, neither one has had anything done to it anyplace. If and when either one developes this "death rattle" problem, I'll make sure to start a thread about it.....Cliff
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Just wanted to type in after Cliff, here. I own an Echo CS400, and it has been a great little saw. I've never experienced this rattle you speak of, but I DO know that Echo seems to build a very durable, reliable line of smaller (under 50cc) saws. To Todd - rev that Echo loud n' proud. Good luck with that "death rattle" - personally, I wouldn't worry too much about it unless it starts affecting your cuts.
 
Torquey Todd said:
Hey man, where in SE MI can you be found muscling?

Your saw must work in the cold.
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I reside in Warren (about 3 miles north of Detroit), but I do 90% of my logging north of the Muskegon-Bay city line (mostly in Roscommon county and north of there). I have a cabin in Roscommon, so it's common to find me up there most of the season.
...oh, and yes, my saws do work pretty well in the cold. I use mostly MACs, and I have never had a problem with them in temps as low as about 15 F. I'm usually done cutting the bulk of my wood by about mid-January, though.
 
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"You must have adjusted the carb on a CS-370. Did you find that the H jet has an usually large range in terms of number of turns?"

I can't remember how many turns out the "H" speed screw ended up? I can tell you that it was set so lean right out of the box that it would NOT even think about idling, or take any throttle till fully warmed up. Even then, it was WAY too lean clear across the load/speed range.

It was not an option to remove the limiter caps and give it some fuel. I also muffler modded it, and have been using it for several years now making only very minor adjustments between Summer rand Winter outings.

Although similiar in engine size to the CS-360T, it does not rev nearly as high, and doesn't appear to have a specific rpm where the rev limiter comes in. It acts more like it may use a timing retard module instead. I give it enough fuel from the "H" speed screw that it "four strokes" nicely way before any of that happens.

I actually have two CS-370's, and had a CS-400 as well. Neither model is a "speedster" as far as rpm's or chain speed, but they have a lot of "grunt" for the cc's, and plenty of power to run a 14" bar with 3/8" LP fully buried in hardwood.....Cliff
 
Cliff R said:
Although similiar in engine size to the CS-360T, it does not rev nearly as high, and doesn't appear to have a specific rpm where the rev limiter comes in. It acts more like it may use a timing retard module instead. I give it enough fuel from the "H" speed screw that it "four strokes" nicely way before any of that happens.
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I wondered about a limiter; mine would "four-stroke" at very high RPM with a lean H jet setting. Richening it would remove the "misses" from the cycle without reducing the RPM (making me think that the lean/four-stroke combination is the result of a limiter, and a hazardous condition). Richening it further would then both re-introduce four-stroking and reduce RPMs, to what I figure is the setting where my saw won't hasten to rattling. The fact that a too-lean mixture plus a revolution limiter will produce four-stroke sound is a bad deal for the guy who has his tuning habits entrenched, and tunes by ear. The fact that (at least my) carbs in these saws have fine jet adjustment makes that worse; it's nearly a whole turn of the screw between "too lean, four-stroking due to limiter/retarder" and "rich enough, barely four-stroking."

So at what speed are you running your 370s?

Thanks a lot for the replies.
 
Torquey Todd said:
Right on, Roscommon would be a nice place for a cabin. I used to spend some time fishing at Pigeon River -- nice area.

Glad to hear good (or at least not as bad?) jobs news from MI. Hope things are good for you.
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My cabin is in the woods about a half mile off of the southwest docks of Higgins Lake. Got 3 acres of wooded land under it. Nice little spot. As for Michigan jobs, ya - they're getting better. The auto industry (which I was never a part of) is all but dead, and we've got a lot of crooks in office in this state, but that's nothing new. Just gotta keep goin'. Michiganders are no strangers to adversity. :rock:
 
Limit Caps on CS-360T

Can anyone tell me how to remove the limit caps so I can tune carb on my Echo CS-360T, and do i need to put them back on after tuning?
 
I received a new Echo cs400 for free and have been running it as it came right out of the box, I did check the mixture screws and they were both up against the limiters. This saw has seen a lot of wood, dirt, and dust as it is my trial saw and rides on the back of my 4 wheeler, not long ago I started hearing a weird rattle and squeal when running the saw. Upon further inspection I located the rattle in the clutch area and disassembled, I ended up blowing out a bunch of dust and wood chips and re greased the bearing and wa-la no more rattle or squeal. The cs400 is a fine saw for its size and power, it is also important to use the saw as intended, an occasional use 16 inch trail clearing or light firewood saw.
 
Still making noises with saws of several colors here, and still haven't gotten any Echos to die. Little Echo and little Stihl are the same except that little Echo came with an adjustable carburetor whereas little Stihl required me to put a new one on it for adjustment. Big strato-engine Echo and big strato-engine Stihl cut about the same but the Echo has more torque, I think.

All in all, good times.

I think "death rattle" must be the very beginning of bearing failure, preceding loss of crankcase seal and leading to piston seizure. I'm sure there are other rattly sounds that precede the end of the road for a saw, but I bet this is the most common.
 
My "Echo" was a John Deere 66SV...you know...that crappy, overweight, underpowered twin that Echo made with the undersized crank and all sorts of other design problems. Problem was, I didn't know about all these horrible shortcomings when I had it. So, I ran the hell out of it for 5 years cutting firewood for myself and my in-laws...never had any clue about making any carb adjustments, or not running ethanol laced gas, or cleaning the air filter. It bounced around in the back of the Dodge...got rained on a few times...got loaned out a few times...ran over it once...never had a problem with it. Finally sold it because I wanted a new saw. I sure was relieved that I got rid of that trouble free saw once I found out how bad Echos were :biggrinbounce2: Pretty sure it rattled too...when you shook it.
 
Torquey Todd said:
Still making noises with saws of several colors here, and still haven't gotten any Echos to die. Little Echo and little Stihl are the same except that little Echo came with an adjustable carburetor whereas little Stihl required me to put a new one on it for adjustment. Big strato-engine Echo and big strato-engine Stihl cut about the same but the Echo has more torque, I think.

All in all, good times.

I think "death rattle" must be the very beginning of bearing failure, preceding loss of crankcase seal and leading to piston seizure. I'm sure there are other rattly sounds that precede the end of the road for a saw, but I bet this is the most common.
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The Echo death rattle came right out of PGG's head and he wouldn't tune them and leaned siezed them, he sure never ran one long enough to ruin a bearing. Steve
 
pgg said:
mmmwwwwaaahahaha, those shlty echo top handle saws are junk, 360T's overheat and seize-up like no-one's business, hehehe, ship em' lean that's what you get. There's nothing funnier than hearing an echo on it's way out with a death rattle. hohoho. And the old ones that don't seize are so gutless they're downright dangerous, best thing you can do with a gutless echo is throw it into the nearest river. But make sure you remove the oil and gas first
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So how many echo's have you actually killed? Or did you just have one once that didn't run so good?
 

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