What is a contract climber worth?

[beastmaster]

I have maybe a unique problem . My venture into contract climbing is going well. That is out of town. I am known locally, and I at lest like to think respected if not always like.(I don't take a lot of B.S.) But the concept of hiring a contract climber is unknown to most around here. I was talking to a Company owner and telling him what I am doing. He said he would never pay 250.00 a day for a climber. It wasn't a short time later he called me in a bind. His climber chickened out on 4 crane removals. It was out of town, all his equipment was on site. He called me and I drove 90 miles, I worked tell dark getting the last removal down. Were kind of friends, that why I dropped everything and helped.. He gave me the 150.00 Realistically what was that worth?(Rhetorical question)
I see local Company's who I work for in the past only thinking of me as a waged employee no matter what my skill level may be. That is a barrier I may never break.
That is why I put 600 + miles on my car most weeks.

 

[imagineero]

I have maybe a unique problem . My venture into contract climbing is going well. That is out of town. I am known locally, and I at lest like to think respected if not always like.(I don't take a lot of B.S.) But the concept of hiring a contract climber is unknown to most around here. I was talking to a Company owner and telling him what I am doing. He said he would never pay 250.00 a day for a climber. It wasn't a short time later he called me in a bind. His climber chickened out on 4 crane removals. It was out of town, all his equipment was on site. He called me and I drove 90 miles, I worked tell dark getting the last removal down. Were kind of friends, that why I dropped everything and helped.. He gave me the 150.00 Realistically what was that worth?(Rhetorical question)
I see local Company's who I work for in the past only thinking of me as a waged employee no matter what my skill level may be. That is a barrier I may never break.
That is why I put 600 + miles on my car most weeks.

No offense, but you'd have to be an idiot to do that. I pay unskilled labourers who drag brush $130/day, skilled labourers who can chip $150/day and a pro groundy with certs who can run all the gear, operate a saw well and knows his knots/rigging and can let a rope run $180~$200/day. On top of that, I buy them lunch and provide them with PPE and pick up./drop off from public transport as needed. None of these people come with equipment or insurance.

If I have to climb anything the minimum is $200. By the time I get in my truck and drive out there, pay for fuel, supply gear, my insurance and qualifications that's what it's worth. Even for a 1 hour job. Here in aus, it costs $100/day just to hire a chainsaw. Hiring a small truck is another $100/day, thats worth considering. Never hire yourself out for less than the rental cost of the gear you are providing.

I'd say you should have gotten in the $500+range. I don't like doing crane jobs unless I know the crane OP. They can be less work than normal jobs, but the risk factor is higher. What would you have made out of the job if it was your job? What did he charge? What would he have done if you didnt go? Big jobs are worth big money. Don't go selling youself short because some other guy wants to pocket more, or because he underbid. Both are setting a bad precedent.

You can make more than that doing a 2 hour trim job.

Shaun

 

[beastmaster]

No offense, but you'd have to be an idiot to do that. I pay unskilled labourers who drag brush $130/day, skilled labourers who can chip $150/day and a pro groundy with certs who can run all the gear, operate a saw well and knows his knots/rigging and can let a rope run $180~$200/day. On top of that, I buy them lunch and provide them with PPE and pick up./drop off from public transport as needed. None of these people come with equipment or insurance.

If I have to climb anything the minimum is $200. By the time I get in my truck and drive out there, pay for fuel, supply gear, my insurance and qualifications that's what it's worth. Even for a 1 hour job. Here in aus, it costs $100/day just to hire a chainsaw. Hiring a small truck is another $100/day, thats worth considering. Never hire yourself out for less than the rental cost of the gear you are providing.

I'd say you should have gotten in the $500+range. I don't like doing crane jobs unless I know the crane OP. They can be less work than normal jobs, but the risk factor is higher. What would you have made out of the job if it was your job? What did he charge? What would he have done if you didnt go? Big jobs are worth big money. Don't go selling youself short because some other guy wants to pocket more, or because he underbid. Both are setting a bad precedent.

You can make more than that doing a 2 hour trim job.

Shaun

I don't denie I may be a bit of an idiot. my wife often reminds me of that. But here in So. Calif. there are lots of good climbers who work for 12.00 an hour, a foremen pays is around 15.00 an hour. I am lucky I use to get 17 to 20 dollars an hour and a lot of grief. I now try to get 250 a day for most jobs for my budding contract thing I got going.
If I wasn't getting 250 a day and calling my own shots(more or less)I would be working for some lil hitler for 15 dollars to 20 dollars an hour and have no one to talk to at lunch that spoke english.
That Company who pays 150.00 is still my bread and butter. That example I gave wasn't a normal work day for him. Lots of time i only work 6 hours and I don't do no grunt work unless I want to.
I only learned of contract climbing from this site. If I had known there was such a thing 10 years ago when I was faster and younger i could of made a killing .
Now i try to market my skill and experence witch I have more of then youth,speed and vigor these days.
I will soon be taking my contractors test, and then get my own Ins. and that'll I hope incress my worth some.

 

[Panama]

A good contract climber is worth what he or she can get in a given area. If that is not enough to satisfy you in your area, you may need to move to another area. Here in SE Virginia, contract climbers are a dying breed. I have tried many in hopes of expanding, but none have lasted more than two hours before I sent them home. Some before even starting and most within 30 Mins. The type of work that takes place at each job we are on projects an image, or snap shot of my company to the public. I can not, and do not tolerate blatant safety violations and will not allow anyone to lower the safety standards of my company. I wish you luck, and offer the following advice. If you are a "great contract climber" because you can "put more wood on the ground in a day than most climbers", that is great, but only if you can do so while adhering to the industry's safety regulations.
I climb most every day, and when I hit the ground I become a groundsman until the job is complete, and yes, I rake. I can't afford a prima donna on my team. Below are some of my "pet peeves" from the technical aspect of contract climbers.
Do you:
-Arrive at a job and climb when you are the only one there?
-Tie into the tree only after free climbing up to a certain point?
-Pass limbs with your lanyard without being tied in?
-Put "getting wood on the ground" ahead of crew safety or not damaging the customers property?
-Wear PPE as you see fit instead of as required?
There are a few companies around that have become reliant on a contract climber, and I have no intentions of becoming one of them. They all seem to not last very long, or if they do, they are not getting anywhere. It's up to the younger generation of prospecting contract climbers, to change the image we (company owners) have of them. Again, I wish you luck. BTW, for $200 per day I can get all I could ever want.

 

[tree md]

I've never worked in CA but did ask around about wages when I was out there on vacation. I was surprised to find that wages were way lower than where I now live and work and were certainly not on par with what I have seen working in other parts of the country.

It all depends on the situation and location. When there is a glut of work (like in a storm situation) a contract climber is going to be worth a lot more than average, everyday situations. I was paying one climber 7 bills a day for him and his groundy as well as giving him a small job of his own on the weekend during a storm. He was a big help to me and could have been working the storm on his own. I have subcontracted for a little as $300 a day here on small jobs. I like to establish price on a job by job basis and ask for a lump sum. You have to be careful though, just as with pricing any job you can shoot yourself in the foot. Even more so when you are contracting for less money.

 

[tree md]

Kind of funny, I got the concept of contract climbing early on. I learned it from my first boss. He was the one who had first put me in a tree. We remained friends for years. Years later, when I was out doing my own thing he would call me regularly and ask me if I wanted to go shoot a game of pool. I knew this usually meant stopping by one of his jobs to look it over. Sure enough, most times we would stop by and look at some trees on the way to the pool hall/bar. We would look a tree over and he would say "I'll pay you this much to put it on the ground", "I'll run the ropes" and so the negotiation would begin. It wasn't that he couldn't climb the tree himself, it was that he was older and would rather pay me than to have to do it himself.

 

[beastmaster]

I stress safety for my self and those on the ground. Sometimes that does slow you down, but I have never been injured or hurt any one in almost 30 years. Knock on wood. I also have my own way of doing things, it might not be my employers way, but other then the occasional fence rail or bush(one hole punched in concrete)I have a pretty impressive record of not breaking stuff. I love rigging and removals are my thing. I seriously trim to good for most companys. But I can match my work to theirs if I have to. I believe less is better, and 3 small cuts are better then one big one.
I often have a plan in my head as I approach a removal then if that is changed it messes me up some. I'm not saying I am all that and a bag of chips, but yes I can often do the un-doable. I am not bragging, and I have short comings no doubt. but I have been doing this a long time. I was good 20 years ago, and I continue to learn everyday.
I am close to finishing my Degree in Ornamental horticulture, It's only lack of funds that prevents me from getting every Cert. thats out there. I'll get there though.
Just saying I am no hillbilly want a be. If I lived in another part of the country I would probably be better off and make better money, I am hoping contract climbing will help me get throu school and I can do my golden years in some cush position for some state or Gov. agency but still be involved in arborculture.
I am not real business wise and i do get taking advantage of some times, but I learn. I have very high standerds, not shared by most in this industry. Its as important to me to work for those who share my views as it is for them to use me. So I am a picky bastard on top of everything else.

 

[Blakesmaster]

From what I can tell, Beast, is if those are the best prices you can get in your area, contract climbing should be off the table for you. If you want to make more money, you need to start your own show. If your just looking for a steady paycheck, you need to find a damn good company to work for. But carrying your own insurance, saws, gear, rigging and what not for $250 a day is ludicrous. I've been climbing 5 years and only work on a day rate, you're not ####ing up my day by choosing what hours I'm gonna be there for you. I carry my own liability, when I contract climb in town I make $500 a day for me, my 200, and my climbing gear. You want me to bring my wraptor, ascenders, blocks, grcs, etc.? Well bud, my hand is still open... If I travel I'm at $350, and you're covering my housing as well as a couple beers at the end of the day. With that being said, I run my own fairly successful business, and don't really need extra dough, it's all funny money when I get it. I pick and choose who I work for, and don't take any #### because there's no need to. I live well below my means and will continue that trend until the day I die. I learned long ago that depending on someone else for a paycheck is a downright stupid way to live MY life. Oddly enough, I get what I ask for, largely in part because they know they can't jew me down because I don't need them. Your biggest downfall, from what I can tell, is your willingness to let others determine what you make.

 

[beastmaster]

Blakesmaster, your living the vida loca in my eyes. I agree with everything your saying. I notice my equipment is getting used up,tore up and lost and its hard to replace with what I am making. Just bought 150ft of lava to replace my raggity blaze climbing line, and need to purchase several hundred dollars of rigging line. They shouldn't be major financial burdens but they are.
Studying for my contractors lic. I am learning how to factor in expensives into my price. I am learning I have been doing things wrong not allowing for a lot of hidden expansive.
I would really like to have medical insurance, and factoring that in will raise my rate a lot all by its self, but I feel I'm worth it. I am hoping as my self confidence and self worth as a contract climber improves so will financial situation. I still feel surprised when someone
will pay me 250 to do what I use to do for an hourly rate working for a company.
I take in every word of praise or criticism and appreciate it. Thanks

 

[Panama]

Beast, you have valuable skills and seem to have a direction you want to go figured out so you have the hard part taken care of. Try getting with your local landscrapers (landscapers). They should be happy to bring you in on trees that are clearly out of their league, which is most trees. Also, as your rep grows, demand what you are worth. Tell them to let you give the estimates on tree work, and all they will have to do is provide a couple of guys for ground work and clean up. Always try to establish a rapport with each client and keep an ever-growing list of your clients for your future.

 

[TEXA$TREE]

Contract Climbing as good as any.

Over the years many have climbed for me on a contract basis and I find that as each new need presents itself is best to pay according to the contract. Setting a base wage is ok and on occasion my competitors have asked me to handle some tricky work and they pay according to difficulty(as well how badly they want it done). Thinking of the $ is the surest way to financial freedom, but to consider the rainy days or the dog days of the off season is a must as well. Having yourself networked with other companies is going to broaden your horizon, but as mentioned above dont sell yourself short, you were called for a reason.

 

[VA-Sawyer]

I think some of you folks are comparing apples to oranges here. An employee climber's only real risk is personal injury to themselves. If they drop a chunk of wood on a groundie the Boss is held accountable. Same thing if the tree lands on the house, the climber still doesn't have to foot the cost. Even a pretty good climber that provides his own basic gear is only worth so much ( say $15 to $30 per hour ) when working as an employee.
As a contract climber, this all changes. Now, the owner of the company can turn around and sue the climber for damages he/she causes. Don't think of your value based on what an employee would make on the job, but instead consider the value of the risk you assume by taking the job. Once the tree is laying on the ground, the majority of the risk is gone and the boss just needs to keep his workers from hurting themselves. The climber assumed the lions share of financial risk, why should he work for peanuts ?
My L. Insurance policy only covers harm caused by me or my employees. If a sub doesn't have their own insurance and punches a big hole in the roof, who has to pay for the repair ? My insurance company will say " not their problem ". Then it becomes a court battle between the climber, me, and the homeowner. I had one of the guys that did contract climbing for me fail to make the payment on his insurance which was cancelled. I didn't know about it until well after the fact and had used him during that time, but won't do so anymore. The court could have ruled either way if we had needed to go to court over it. Just thinking about it makes me mad.
Rick

 

[RAG66]

I am getting a bit worn out and would love to find a climber who I could trust. Weather he gets paid by the hour or by the job is another thing entirely. Most times I can't get a job if I bid for a climber to come in. I don't have the funds for the risk of an unknown climber most of the time and I don't even have any outstanding bills. I own my equipment free and clear. Things are getting better but most companies are bidding at $.75 on the dollar around here. I think I would go for $200 - $275 / day if you have your own equipment, current insurance, and can be trusted. Most times I will not give the time of day because the individual comes to me with no references to varify his skill.... only words!