Lumberjack
Banned
You seem to be stuck on your father. Without a shot of the whole tree, that pic does little. Trees that have defects in there bases should be supported if necessary.
Wheres all the old Schoolers?
- Thread starter Trees Company
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You seem to be stuck on your father. Without a shot of the whole tree, that pic does little. Trees that have defects in there bases should be supported if necessary.
Trees Company
ArboristSite Member
ha ha ha noo we haven't burned through a rope before not even close
Lumberjack
Banned
To ensure the stability of the tree, from what I can see in the pic, I would add 1 or 2 racheting straps around the base to support the defect, to keep it from spreading.
My life is worth more to me and others to not do everything I can to make the tree as safe as possible on hazardus removals, such as that.
My life is worth more to me and others to not do everything I can to make the tree as safe as possible on hazardus removals, such as that.
John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
The origionl term for false crotch was to cut a knotch for the rope to run through.
As you have already visuallized, it wears the rope faster.
Also the rope is running right by the climber, so there is a higher risk involved. Mike Oxman has a vid of it somewhere around here, maybe someone else knows where to link to.
As you have already visuallized, it wears the rope faster.
Also the rope is running right by the climber, so there is a higher risk involved. Mike Oxman has a vid of it somewhere around here, maybe someone else knows where to link to.
Lumberjack
Banned
Then you must lower the wood at painfully slow paces. There is no way to run a load down when the FC is all rope without burning the rope. Rope on Rope friction is too great a force.
So I need to put down the book and get to work? Sounds like someone needs to pic up a book and learn some things. There is whole world out there.
Tom Dunlap
Addicted to ArboristSite
Did you strap the two leads together before climbing? If not, it was reckless to climb into a tree that has failed that bad.
It hurts to see the bravado and chest thumping of old school climbers. Just because you were successful once doesn't mean that you can do the same thing again. Remember, tree work is more like backgammon where skill is needed but you do have luck in the game. Not like chess where skill will win more games.
Do you see the irony here? Discussing the benefits of old school and progressive on an electronic medium with digital pictures across country borders in real time!!! If this were truly old school, the only place this conversation would be taking place is at the curb leaning against the truck or down at the saw shop.
Tom
It hurts to see the bravado and chest thumping of old school climbers. Just because you were successful once doesn't mean that you can do the same thing again. Remember, tree work is more like backgammon where skill is needed but you do have luck in the game. Not like chess where skill will win more games.
Do you see the irony here? Discussing the benefits of old school and progressive on an electronic medium with digital pictures across country borders in real time!!! If this were truly old school, the only place this conversation would be taking place is at the curb leaning against the truck or down at the saw shop.
Tom
Trees Company
ArboristSite Member
Yep i am cocky about my father. Its because Ive seen ???? that is unbelivable. And I've worked with others that are supposed to be awsome and are. Alls I can say is that I get the same job done with two ropes, belt, spurs, two saws and a bar wrench. and some gas and oil. and a truck and chipper. You tell me whats wrong with that, nothing, it gives me more pride in what i do.
Heres one side of that tree
Heres one side of that tree
John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
Nothing is wrong with working in your comfort zone. We just know that adding tricks to you bag will help.
There is a problem with trimming on spkes though. It is bad for the trees.
There is a problem with trimming on spkes though. It is bad for the trees.
Tom Dunlap
Addicted to ArboristSite
Nothing "wrong" except that using spikes to prune trees will put you in the hack group. Nothing "wrong" except that the practices look very unsafe.
I'm proud to say that I can rig out any tree with only manile rope but why would I want to? I can still use a typewriter to write but why would I? I can sew by hand but I would rather use my Pfaff.
Don't let pride fog your understanding of what is right and safe.
Do you know anyone who has been killed because they made a mistake or got in over their head because they didn't understand the risks that they were working in? Once you do know of a death, you might have a different view. Too many of us have lost friends to condone this behavior or attitude.
Tom
I'm proud to say that I can rig out any tree with only manile rope but why would I want to? I can still use a typewriter to write but why would I? I can sew by hand but I would rather use my Pfaff.
Don't let pride fog your understanding of what is right and safe.
Do you know anyone who has been killed because they made a mistake or got in over their head because they didn't understand the risks that they were working in? Once you do know of a death, you might have a different view. Too many of us have lost friends to condone this behavior or attitude.
Tom
Trees Company
ArboristSite Member
My fathers good freind was killed at the E.X. in toronto. I know about deaths I now about injuries. and the drop crotch runs down as fast as I wan't it to.
Trees Company
ArboristSite Member
Using spikes on a tree puts me in the hack catigory?
NO it doesn't. Tom's over zellousness gives good tree men a bad wrap. Your not the final authority on trees Tom! Sure spiking hurts the tree, but if done right and as least as posible it can have no noticable ill effects which has been the case for myself for years 99% of the trees my father climbs I cant tell he's even spiked it. Go learn from experiance pal.
NO it doesn't. Tom's over zellousness gives good tree men a bad wrap. Your not the final authority on trees Tom! Sure spiking hurts the tree, but if done right and as least as posible it can have no noticable ill effects which has been the case for myself for years 99% of the trees my father climbs I cant tell he's even spiked it. Go learn from experiance pal.
John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
We are nto trying to say that anyone is stupid or less manly because they do it "the old way".
It is just that we have done it that way and found ways that work better.
Tom actually did start with Mailla rope. I know guy who started on a bolin saddle.
Old methods are good to know, and have their place in operations. Spikes for example are a must for large removals.
Natural crotch rigging cna be faster then low frction rigging. It can be safer in arear where a block will overload the rigging point.
If you would like some ageement on your points, then gove a little thought to ours. Let me explain the whys and wherefores.
It is just that we have done it that way and found ways that work better.
Tom actually did start with Mailla rope. I know guy who started on a bolin saddle.
Old methods are good to know, and have their place in operations. Spikes for example are a must for large removals.
Natural crotch rigging cna be faster then low frction rigging. It can be safer in arear where a block will overload the rigging point.
If you would like some ageement on your points, then gove a little thought to ours. Let me explain the whys and wherefores.
John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
Spiking does hurt trees because of the nature of the wounding.
Will you let me expalin why?
Are you willing to give me a chance or are you set on believing we are idiots??
I can point you to soe things to read if you would prefer.
John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
Originally posted by rborist1
Why are you guys even wasting your time with this discussion?
The only thing he can say is no.
I'm spending my time here anyways.
If we can plant the seed, maybe the tree will grow.
Both Tom and I started the way he is now.
Trees Company
ArboristSite Member
I think this is a good conversation.
John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
I do to, you're still here.
Will you give me the chance to try and convert you to going from just tree work to tree care?
There is science bhind my beleifes
Look at this search on decay in trees. We would be happy to answer any of your questions as you go.
http://www.dogpile.com/info.dogpl/search/web/decay+trees
Trees Company
ArboristSite Member
I don't need to know that spikes hurt the trees. because any body can figure that stabing a tree isn't great, please. I'd like to hear some good input I love knowladge. Just understand when I say my eyes are open and I've payed attention to detail as far as what is harmful to trees.
And my point is you don't know from experiance, maybe some idiot who spurred WAY to much.
Which is what i'm saying
what i consider way too much spiking most posters consider averadge therefore they think you shouldn't be done at all. Are you reading me?
And my point is you don't know from experiance, maybe some idiot who spurred WAY to much.
Which is what i'm saying
what i consider way too much spiking most posters consider averadge therefore they think you shouldn't be done at all. Are you reading me?
John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
Ok, so you aggree that spiking is wounding the trees. How is a little harm OK?
Damaging th bark allows pathogens an inroad to the tree.
Do you understand the concept of CODIT?
You talk about a pulley being a bad shortcut. i would say that spikes on a prune are a crutch from learning good climbing technique.
Any unnessesary wounding is bad, period.
Damaging th bark allows pathogens an inroad to the tree.
Do you understand the concept of CODIT?
You talk about a pulley being a bad shortcut. i would say that spikes on a prune are a crutch from learning good climbing technique.
Any unnessesary wounding is bad, period.
