WillBrayJr
ArboristSite Guru
Yep, I meant COMPLETELY. I was getting tired when I typed that post.
which top handle saw is the one for me?
- Thread starter jmethodrose
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Yep, I meant COMPLETELY. I was getting tired when I typed that post.
TreeClimber57
Addicted to ArboristSite
what happened with it?
TREECLIMBER, HERE'S MY RESPONSE TO "THE EXPERTS" HEHE
"Conventional chainsaws have wider spacings between the handles which are easier to handle on the ground and allow the operator to maintain a better stance."
BULLSH1T! YOU CAN MAINTAIN A PERFECT STANCE ON THE GROUND WITH A TH SAW.
"There are many different makes of ‘top handled chainsaws’ on the market. There have been a high number of incidents involving top handled chainsaws due to incorrect use such as poor work positioning and one handed use and particularly from being used on the ground..."
MEANINGLESS AND MIS-LEADING STATEMENT! TRY: "THERE HAVE ALSO BEEN A HIGH NUMBER OF INCIDENTS INVOLVING REAR HANDLE CHAINSAWS DUE TO INCORRECT USE WHILE BEING USED ON THE GROUND ..."
"Most manufacturers now state clearly where and how these professional top handled chainsaws are to be operated. I would like to quote an extract from the Stihl Operators Handbook:-"
LOL ONCE THE "EXPERTS" START QUOTING OPERATOR HANDBOOKS THEN YOU KNOW THEY'RE FULL OF IT!!
" These chainsaws may be used only by persons trained in special cutting and working techniques and who are properly secured while working in a tree (lift bucket, safety harness). Normal chainsaws (with wider spaced handles) are recommended for all other cutting work at ground level."
SAYS WHO? A PACK OF SHINY-BUMS SITTING IN AN AIR-CONDITIONED OFFICE WHO THINK THEY KNOW IT ALL BECAUSE THEY'VE ALL SWATTED UP THE OFFICIAL RULEBOOKS AND MANUALS? LOL
"I notice these top handled chainsaws being used on the ground to fell small trees and trim and cross cut materials while feeding the chipper. More often than not, they are being used one handed. This is not what they are designed for. Even if used two handed on the ground, the operator is in a very poor position leaning over the saw often directly in line with the bar and chain."
MORE ALARMIST BULLSH1T! JUST WISE-UP AND OPERATE YOUR SAW IN A SAFE POSITION, REAR HANDLE OR TOP HANDLE.
"Conventional chainsaws have wider spacings between the handles which are easier to handle on the ground and allow the operator to maintain a better stance."
BULLSH1T! YOU CAN MAINTAIN A PERFECT STANCE ON THE GROUND WITH A TH SAW.
"There are many different makes of ‘top handled chainsaws’ on the market. There have been a high number of incidents involving top handled chainsaws due to incorrect use such as poor work positioning and one handed use and particularly from being used on the ground..."
MEANINGLESS AND MIS-LEADING STATEMENT! TRY: "THERE HAVE ALSO BEEN A HIGH NUMBER OF INCIDENTS INVOLVING REAR HANDLE CHAINSAWS DUE TO INCORRECT USE WHILE BEING USED ON THE GROUND ..."
"Most manufacturers now state clearly where and how these professional top handled chainsaws are to be operated. I would like to quote an extract from the Stihl Operators Handbook:-"
LOL ONCE THE "EXPERTS" START QUOTING OPERATOR HANDBOOKS THEN YOU KNOW THEY'RE FULL OF IT!!
" These chainsaws may be used only by persons trained in special cutting and working techniques and who are properly secured while working in a tree (lift bucket, safety harness). Normal chainsaws (with wider spaced handles) are recommended for all other cutting work at ground level."
SAYS WHO? A PACK OF SHINY-BUMS SITTING IN AN AIR-CONDITIONED OFFICE WHO THINK THEY KNOW IT ALL BECAUSE THEY'VE ALL SWATTED UP THE OFFICIAL RULEBOOKS AND MANUALS? LOL
"I notice these top handled chainsaws being used on the ground to fell small trees and trim and cross cut materials while feeding the chipper. More often than not, they are being used one handed. This is not what they are designed for. Even if used two handed on the ground, the operator is in a very poor position leaning over the saw often directly in line with the bar and chain."
MORE ALARMIST BULLSH1T! JUST WISE-UP AND OPERATE YOUR SAW IN A SAFE POSITION, REAR HANDLE OR TOP HANDLE.
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jmethodrose
ArboristSite Operative
thanks for all the replies everyone, has made some interesting reading!
the reason I'm after one is for using for coppicing, and for use on the rare jobs I get where I do have to use it off the ground, but I don't do this type of job every day. At some point in the future I may well look into doing training to become a climber, so it would be useful to have then.
will give it some more thought, it's not urgent by any means. if I get one, it will be because I need it for certain jobs, as using a small saw such as a Efco 3500 or Husky 346xp one handed isn't ideal! (not that I have ever done this :msp_sneaky::msp_wink
the reason I'm after one is for using for coppicing, and for use on the rare jobs I get where I do have to use it off the ground, but I don't do this type of job every day. At some point in the future I may well look into doing training to become a climber, so it would be useful to have then.
will give it some more thought, it's not urgent by any means. if I get one, it will be because I need it for certain jobs, as using a small saw such as a Efco 3500 or Husky 346xp one handed isn't ideal! (not that I have ever done this :msp_sneaky::msp_wink
rms61moparman
Addicted to ArboristSite
There MAY be a disproportionate amount of accidents recorded to top handle saws but I am going to speculate that the corporate lawyers had as much...or more to do with why these instructions are now the commonly accepted norm than anything else.
In todays world you just can't have a corporation telling people to use a chainsaw with one hand.
"Your Honor, I was using the saw with one hand just like it said in the instruction manual"!!!
Mike
It's exactly the same stuff you get in any proffession, people dodging around a list of regulations and red-tape zealously pushed by a small handful of faceless people apparently in "high" places. Check out all the stickers emblazoned over any new quad-bike. They'll try to convince you you need at least five years of Astronaut training to ride one safely.
TreeClimber57
Addicted to ArboristSite
That is very true, and tree workers/arborists are no different.
Top handled saws however, have always been stated pretty much the same, nothing has changed in recent years. Their associated risks are well known however, with several utilities (some of the biggest in the U.S.) not allowing their use.
This was what prompted the MS200 to be built - which was actually after the MS200T.
Anybody who has never witnessed a chainsaw accident or a kickback has no idea how fast it happens or what it can do. In fact a kickback occurs so quickly that you do not even remember it happening.. about the same speed as things happen in a car accident.
One can safely use a top handled saw on the ground, there is no dispute of that. If one can safely use on a top handled saw handed is perhaps up for debate.. knowing the risk is half the battle. But if using it top handled long enough with one hand, the odds of something eventually happening are somewhat likely.
it called Tort Reform. some blood sucking leech-like maggot of a lawyer will find a way to separate reasonable people from thier hard earned money. and once an attorney passes a law some other blood sucking leech is needed to defend said reasonable person from said blood sucking attorney(dressed as a defendant). Sounds like a vicious circle eh ???? just like the attorney wants because he makes money either way. until the legal system and its judges are removed from monetary misguidedness there will be no "reasonable" ligitation.
its a chainsaw...anyone of them are just dangerous enough to kill you if you aren't on top of your game....even a Wildthing is dangerous regardless of where it's handle is.
off my soapbox....back onto the firewood pile.
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Treeclimber, all I can say is that using a TH saw one-handed all the time is just a strain on your forearm and holding by both arms is easier. But one-handed use is still safe as houses because even the dumbest moron soon realizes you've gotta hold the saw out to the side not in front. Guarantee it's 95% the dumber than dumbest morons who crop up in the "official" figures.
Guess the standard agency agenda will always be "Treat everyone as a moron at all times" though
Guess the standard agency agenda will always be "Treat everyone as a moron at all times" though
rms61moparman
Addicted to ArboristSite
TreeClimber57
Addicted to ArboristSite
Hey, I confess I use it one handed a lot; daily .. but not all the time. Mostly up on tree or in bucket.
It was really intended to point out that they are not and were not intended for that use. You will never find documentation to suggest you should use one that way, or I never have. If you are working professionally and have an accident, workers comp will likely be all over you if you admit that.
I have been doing 37 years last May professionally.. and seen just about anything you can imagine I think.. including a 880 up a tree, and a 441 one handed over a persons head on the ground.
TreeClimber57
Addicted to ArboristSite
Swamp Yankee
Addicted to ArboristSite
I have sinned and used my MS200 with one hand
I'm not saying it's proper technique, but how a saw top handle or rear is used is up to the end user. The argument for corporate lawyers and civil litigators being involved stands true. Heck I was in the winch industry for almost 20 years and the boilerplate (and I used to have to write that crap), was / is certainly to educate the consumer but is primarily to fend off law suits and large awards for being stupid. As we used to say, a law suit is packed with every winch, and there's always a lawyer that takes the case hoping that writing 2 or 3 letters will result in a quick monetary settlement.
Along the same lines, I remember saw Owner's Manuals from the late '70s showing the correct technique for drop starting a chain saw that is now considered a huge safety hazard. When I bought my Partner S55 years ago the dealer took me out to the woodpile and taught me how to drop start the saw. (A lot of saws did not have chain brakes back then as well) So my question to those of you that say a top handle shouldn't be one handed, how many of you honestly never ever drop start any saw, top or rear handle? How many always engage the chain brake prior to starting? These two techniques are extremely dangerous as well, and I confess to doing so on a regular basis.
Stupidity is infinite, just when you think you've reached the top, there's stupid +1. By the same token just when you think the depths of stupidity have been achieved there's stupidity -1. You just have to decide if you want to be +1 or -1.
Take Care
I'm not saying it's proper technique, but how a saw top handle or rear is used is up to the end user. The argument for corporate lawyers and civil litigators being involved stands true. Heck I was in the winch industry for almost 20 years and the boilerplate (and I used to have to write that crap), was / is certainly to educate the consumer but is primarily to fend off law suits and large awards for being stupid. As we used to say, a law suit is packed with every winch, and there's always a lawyer that takes the case hoping that writing 2 or 3 letters will result in a quick monetary settlement.
Along the same lines, I remember saw Owner's Manuals from the late '70s showing the correct technique for drop starting a chain saw that is now considered a huge safety hazard. When I bought my Partner S55 years ago the dealer took me out to the woodpile and taught me how to drop start the saw. (A lot of saws did not have chain brakes back then as well) So my question to those of you that say a top handle shouldn't be one handed, how many of you honestly never ever drop start any saw, top or rear handle? How many always engage the chain brake prior to starting? These two techniques are extremely dangerous as well, and I confess to doing so on a regular basis.
Stupidity is infinite, just when you think you've reached the top, there's stupid +1. By the same token just when you think the depths of stupidity have been achieved there's stupidity -1. You just have to decide if you want to be +1 or -1.
Take Care
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WillBrayJr
ArboristSite Guru
Only drop start a Chainsaw when the engine is warm. Pedo-Killer doesn't have a Chain Brake. Besides I don't keep the throttle trigger depressed unless I have absolutely have to.
VINIFIREWOOD
I only no what I know
What Happened
The coil would not fire when it (the coil) got below about 30* F.
Long story short I returned it and got my money back.
The coil would not fire when it (the coil) got below about 30* F.
Long story short I returned it and got my money back.
TreeClimber57
Addicted to ArboristSite
Drop Start.. when in bucket yes. When on ground rarely but have done it.
Chain brake.. 100% - in fact as soon as cutting stops brake goes on by habit. And if you handed me a saw, the first thing I do is hit brake, again a habit.
tallguys
Addicted to ArboristSite
Chain brake.. 100% - in fact as soon as cutting stops brake goes on by habit. And if you handed me a saw, the first thing I do is hit brake, again a habit.
Seems like a very good habit to get into.
Seems like a very good habit to get into.
other then the piece of CRAP chain tension system its a great saw but the tension device is cased in plastic and can easily be tweaked by torching the saw one way or another. But other then that I honestly like my 330T though its no 200T but nothing is at least not right now.
