Why In Spanish?

[lxt]

Ok, I dont want this to be a bash on immigrants or anything, BUT..... Im reading this months TCIA Mag & have noticed in past Mag`s along with ISA publications that it would seem they want you to learn spanish!!

their training materials are in spanish & they make a big whoop dee doo about new materials coming out in spanish!!!! So heres my problem!!

Whats sad is Both entities have talked about illegal immigration reform, But both pander to make them comfortable in our work place....can you say membership dues?


#1. why dont they learn english? their in America!!

#2. Why should I learn spanish to communicate to a group of people who by their being here & working for peanuts(whole families in tree care) undermine the very trade I love, respect & has provided for me & mine?

#3. If their Illegal send em back, companies in my area that are using "mexicans" know they can pay em little & love that fact!! & are making large profit from it.

#3. Illegals know what they are doing & got us by the ya know what!! their kinda like a mobile walmart.....

#4. our trade is going backwards in the laboring sense of things, what 19-20+yr old is going to come work for a company starting off at $7.50-$8.00hr?? our illegal counterpart will!!, many of them are in their 30`s or older this wont help in future training!! We need that 19-20yr old bracket to want to learn instead we drive them to search for other job/career opportunities.

Illegal Immigration has in some parts of this country put a hurtin on us & will make into all areas if let go!! wages will spiral downward & with the housing market on bust people are gonna want cheap!!!

I dont feel bad for em!! GO HOME!! yes they work hard/cheap but takes much longer, they are a liability in the work sense yeah they`ll do it!! with not a clue as to the proper way, they are a financial liability!! driving down wages & paid exclusively in cash so as to stay under the radar.

Did TCIA & ISA think this was a good idea? both should be ashamed! targeting a group of people who`s majority are here ILLEGALLY & then have the stones to try to train them by having me learn their language!!

Learn English, become Legal Citizens if not GO HOME!!! there are many other things I could rant on about pertaining to this situation but just wandered why the best sources of information for tree care would support & enhance this group of people whom are destroying the American Dream & know it?

I do apologize if I offended anyone, this may be a sensitive topic to some, Not Me!!! the answer to me is simple, I hate paying my own taxes, healthcare, pension, education expenses(daughter) & just plain out right making a living!!! let alone have to pay for illegals to have the same when they didnt earn it!!! why should this be put on my/Americas shoulders?



LXT....................

 

[mckeetree]

It shouldn't be put on Americas shoulders and anybody that is offended by your post needs to be sent back to Mexico with them.

 

[Job Corps Tree]

Why in Spanish

I do agree with your Post. I did not go to Mexico to work they came here. Had I gone to Mexico City to get a job I would have had to learn Spanish just to get by. I have worked with some real good Mexican climbers, but with the safety issues involved we must be able to talk to each other.
No ablay Espagnol. HE## no I have enough trouble with English and TREE

 

[Sunrise Guy]

The situation is what it is. Blame can be given to many and more. However, to make good information available to those in our business, legal or otherwise, is to improve the quality of the work our client base receives.

A positive way to spin this: As all workers learn more about arboriculture, they tend to value their added intelligence and come to expect a better wage for their work. This, in turn, leads to less "cheap labor" and thus, a less likely atmosphere where unbelievably low underbidding can take place.

I'm in Austin, Texas so, trust me, I'm in the middle of the scene cited in the original post. It is terrible, but one has to hope for a good outcome, ultimately.

 

[OTG BOSTON]

safety first

Strictly from a safety point of view, I can see the method of their(TCIA/ISA)madness. It is a way to bring up the safety awareness to all workers in the industry, thereby lowering the reported accidents, thereby reducing OUR insurance rates.

On a side note, a friend who ownes a large tree co which does employ some "questionable status" immigrants, always tells me how much better the USA would be without unions. (he knows I am a Union guy and loves to bust my stones) His example is how Dubai is building all these great things by using cheap labor from other countries.

So the question for me is; which is better, illegal workers or union workers?

This is a good thread don't let it turn into a why illegals are bad thread, there is already one of those on the OT forum...........

 

[lxt]

I have worked Union & Non Union the thing to me is this: you will always have that $20hr man who knows he is protected & does enough to get by, however is that any worse than the CEO who runs the company in the red makes in the high 6 figures plus & gets a million dollar severance pay when he leaves?

I feel as long as you do your job give a fair days work & do it professionally there should be no problems, in our biz some days you should make more & other days your not worth your wage it all averages out(ideally).

A good company that treats its workers right then I feel no union is needed, however there are alot of garbage companies that workers need the representation in too.

as far as the Illegal Immigrants go!! why do they need to be given information for any job? not just arborculture!! why should they get a chance at a good paying job? they are Illegal!! Send them Back!!

As far as insurance rates go why are they higher pertaining to this situation? Sorry I have to pay for health care, etc.. & now for them too? NO WAY!! you not from here & your here Illegally minimum treatment followed by deportation!!

As far as the ISA & TCIA promoting spanish training aides I have no problem with this, target mexico!! In the borders of the USA speak english or dont work! simple, you & I and many other Americans work hard for what we have some dont(shame on them) & to know that Illegals can enjoy all the things I have to pay for just because of what they are is ridiculous!!

It seems that pandering to this sect of people is almost more of a law than what the real law is, I dont know about anyone else, SORRY you shouldnt be here unless you did it legally, Unions, Politicians, & many other entities that need votes or members just want them for the money they can get out of em, plain & simple.

My thought, Send em back!!, you had a child here Illegally it goes back at 18 it can come here but not you untill done so legally!! you work here No more & employers should have the S%^T fined out of them for hiring them. English is required!! cant speak It ? too bad!! spanish dont work here!

this may all seem harsh but wait till you go down the street & look at the job you bid days ago being done by spanish speaking Illegal`s, or your child doesnt get the college grant money cause Rico`s kid got it do to dads Illegal minority status, sorry sir health care, car ins., w.comp, etc... has doubled this year....................due to this problem!! were gonna PAY


LXT...........

 

[BostonBull]

I think illegal immigrants should be gone!

I work with many immigrants from Guatemala. They are GREAT workers and AWEOME people! They came here, paid thier dues, work hard, pay taxes, and speak and CONTINUE to LEARN the ENGLISH language. Great in my book!

As for unions......hahahahahahaha!! I was in a Union for 3 years. I was on the E Board, I was the safety supervisor for 3000+ employees.
I came from a PRODUCTION contractor, and made my way into the utility union. Utility unoins are not for me, or any other balls to the wall workers. Its just not my cup of tea. Sure there were times we worked hard, and definately knew we earned a check, but they were few and far between.

Are unions good for america? Sure I think they have to be patrolled/governed better, just like our borders.

 

[BostonBull]

Oh yeah I almost forgot...........this thread will be OUT OF CONTROL by the end of page two. opcorn:

 

[John464]

I am glad they have both languages. Not offended by your post, but I must say without the two languages it would make it harder to teach safety to my many(all legal) latino decent employees. NOTE: spanish is not just for mexicans.

Without the work ethic latino's bring to my workforce I would be getting less done at a higher cost. These guys do not take entended breaks beyond their 1 hour lunch and do not go to sleep in my trucks like some of those gringo's Ive had.



FACT: Do you know Davey Tree, a multi-million dollar company, has over 75% of it's employees of latino decent?

My company has about a 50-50 split of americans and latino's. But I see in the future the latino may become the better man for the job. All but very few of my brush draggers speak and read english. The others that arent too fluent. The spanish caution signs on my chipper, coupled with my 4 years in college of spanish help keep them safe. Maybe I will have 75% latino also, who knows? I am business and will follow the path needed to stay on top.

Take a look at the bigger co.'s and see what they are doing to succeed, one step to succes may be hiring the right people for the job. This is what it comes down to, reliable, loyal, and fair employees. I dont care what color or race they are. I am just lucky to have great help!

Im all for them to stay in a documented way and have adopted VISAs for them so they can.

 

[ropensaddle]

I am glad they have both languages. Not offended by your post, but I must say without the two languages it would make it harder to teach safety to my many(all legal) latino decent employees. NOTE: spanish is not just for mexicans.

Without the work ethic latino's bring to my workforce I would be getting less done at a higher cost. These guys do not take entended breaks beyond their 1 hour lunch and do not go to sleep in my trucks like some of those gringo's Ive had.



FACT: Do you know Davey Tree, a multi-million dollar company, has over 75% of it's employees of latino decent?

My company has about a 50-50 split of americans and latino's. But I see in the future the latino may become the better man for the job. All but very few of my brush draggers speak and read english. The others that arent too fluent. The spanish caution signs on my chipper, coupled with my 4 years in college of spanish help keep them safe. Maybe I will have 75% latino also, who knows? I am business and will follow the path needed to stay on top.

Take a look at the bigger co.'s and see what they are doing to succeed, one step to succes may be hiring the right people for the job. This is what it comes down to, reliable, loyal, and fair employees. I dont care what color or race they are. I am just lucky to have great help!

Im all for them to stay in a documented way and have adopted VISAs for them so they can.

Well it sounds like you are on the fast track to
success probably the most paid for people are going
to be bilingual. All because greed to pay fair American wages
have ruined the American dream I hope you enjoy the success
at the cost of your children and grand children.

 

[John464]

Well it sounds like you are on the fast track to
success probably the most paid for people are going
to be bilingual. All because greed to pay fair American wages
have ruined the American dream I hope you enjoy the success
at the cost of your children and grand children.

Where did you read my Latino's get paid less for the same job than an american counterpart? Believe it or not they normally get paid more, because they earn their right to the higher wages. I have latino's making over $20 and have been with me many years and frankly the only white guys making that or more either certified arborists, foreman, or salesman. The american ground guys never have lasted long enough to earn that kind of pay. I pay well for hard workers. Again I could care less if they are america, asian, itlalian, mexican. Color nor race means nothing to mean. A good employee is of uptmost concern.

 

[ropensaddle]

2nd paragraph

 

[John464]

2nd paragraph

Clarification:
they COST me less money by not stealing from me, showing up on time, and doing things behind my back that they shouldnt be doing, and work harder. My expense is less. not their wages.

Hope that clears it up

 

[(WLL)]

iv got nothing nice to say. i did give green rep to who i support on this matter. i feel your pain and i will back you up to the end! UNITED WE STAND

 

[ropensaddle]

Clarification:
they COST me less money by not stealing from me, showing up on time, and doing things behind my back that they shouldnt be doing, and work harder. My expense is less. not their wages.

Hope that clears it up

Oh so you like complete control and someone that will
use up their back and then who pays for the meds?
I have worked around them and they won't outwork
me of course I wont work for what they do and can't
live fifteen deep.

 

[lxt]

Look, if their legally here & can speak ENGLISH!!! Fine. why should I have to speak spanish? or anyone here in the states, if you wish to be bilingual I dont knock that, it is an accomplishment. But to have to for training or just communicating to an employee, NO WAY! thats absurd.


As far as Davey Tree goes that may be true, but did you notice that Davey`s prescence here in the easten states has greatly diminished, out in CA yep their boomin, canada too, Davey is on the verge of loosing their contracts in W.Pa to Lewis, Asplundh & Nelson. Nelson Tree was trimming right in front of their Kent office this summer. In this area latino workers dont go over well & your company will be looked down upon, those that use Illegals are hired for the budget wary cheap lowely profit mongoring go out of biz in 3-5yr general contractors(take the $$ & run)

John if your guys are Legal & good workers, Great!! nothing wrong with that I dont have a prejudice for latinos, mexicans or people of spanish speaking descent, Just Illegal Immigrants......get rid of em!!

But I still think they should have to know english & well, not just yes, no or I & to want me to learn spanish for the reasons you stated....just to communicate thats crazy!!

they wanted the job right? how did they fill out their application? if they cant speak it then they cant read or write it I would assume. traffic signs how do they know, when driving your vehicles & Mr. Policeman pulls em over is he suppose to know spanish too? hows he communicate with em?, how do the Home owners talk to em? NOPE..no speak english GO HOME!!!

LXT...........

 

[(WLL)]

if you live in America and run an alien tree circus you are a hack. if you think you are on top and need anything more than a living you are greedy jack!! I WORK FOR A LIVING NOT A FORTUNE & I SUPPORT AMERICANS NOT ALIENS get out of the country!!! my fore fathers fought to get here and i will fight to keep it

 

[reachtreeservi]

Clarification:
they COST me less money by not stealing from me, showing up on time, and doing things behind my back that they shouldnt be doing, and work harder. My expense is less. not their wages.

Hope that clears it up

Give it a few years and they'll put you out of business. Hispanic workers don't work any harder than any other worker, they are not more honest,
nor do they have better attendance.

They do work cheaper, for awhile. Then they start their own companies, take your workers with them and totally cut your throat on bidding in your area.

End result : You will be out of the business.

If you think you can dispute that, you are not dealing with reality. The greed of the American contractor is what put us in this situation in almost every other trade.
Just a matter of time before the same happens to tree work.

The illegal immigration problem is the singe largest threat to the American way of life this country has ever faced.
Our entire social infrastructure is being overloaded by these ungrateful , illegal hordes.

On the American frontier, everybody knew the way to get ahead was to work hard and take care of your own. A lot of people today would do well to relearn that .

I won't work them. I won't work with them. I love this country too much to destroy it , just to make a dollar.

 

[ropensaddle]

I think its funny how people using them say their paying them the same
as American wages. While it may be true and they may be legal now they have substantially reduced our wages for decades. I feel the same as some or most I don't have a hate for them as a people but as a standard of living my hackles go up! Being from Texas originally I have seen firsthand what swimmers do to the economy great for law breakers bad for legit biz!

 

[John464]

if you live in America and run an alien tree circus you are a hack. if you think you are on top and need anything more than a living you are greedy jack!! I WORK FOR A LIVING NOT A FORTUNE & I SUPPORT AMERICANS NOT ALIENS get out of the country!!! my fore fathers fought to get here and i will fight to keep it

our forefathers entered this county by way of travel. Travelling to America in hopes of a better life is no different than what foreigners are doing now. If you go back far enough in your family tree you would see your roots are foreign as well. Only exception is the American Indians. Every other race traveled to America at one time. Why should we deny those that wish to LEGALLY enter, the chance that was once provided for our ancestors?

LXT, I am all for getting those who enter illegally out, but if they go by the rules and pay taxes just like everyone else why should they be denied a better life just because they are "mexican"? That my friends is prejudice.