Wood Price Survey Time Again

[blackdogon57]

:agree2::agree2:

Well said. Every situation is different and very few firewood sellers rely entirely on firewood sales for all their income. In my case most of my equipment is paid for in full and is used for other business purposes, therefore my cost to produce and deliver wood is lower than the average seller. Does that mean I sell the wood for less ? Hell no - it means my profit margins on firewood are relatlively good.

 

[treemandan]

It shore is a conundrum.

 

[rider93hawg]

I got a call last week from a friend who is working wood with this other guy who needs to clear space. Cut and split, 16" lengths seasoned oak $25 a truck load. As soon as the 18X32 wood shed is done this week I will be all over it. It will be the second time I have bought wood in 5 years.

 

[banshee67]

I got a call last week from a friend who is working wood with this other guy who needs to clear space. Cut and split, 16" lengths seasoned oak $25 a truck load. As soon as the 18X32 wood shed is done this week I will be all over it. It will be the second time I have bought wood in 5 years.

$50 a cord for 16" seasoned split oak!?!? thats insane

you could be selling that for $220-240 a cord around here

keep in mind though, its $25 a truckload - well you have to drive your truck there, wear and tear, gas, tires, jeans, boots, your back, your time, anything you might drink or eat while in the process of getting or bringin back the wood,,any mental anguish experienced along the way, all this is figured into the price of the wood!! you aint gettin that truck load for $25!!! its lies! let me break it down again! say you get the wood for $25 a load, but you spent $10 on fuel, you ate a tasty cake, and drank a gatorade, 32oz variety , lemon lime, well now that wood just went up to almost $40!! now factor in wear in tear on your jeans, how many days will you wear them before you throw them out? divide that by the price of the jeans and this will tell you how much money was put into jeans, for that load of wood alone, now do this again for your socks, boots, and shirt. all in all, all expenses considered,you shoiuld probably just buy the wood at $200 a cord, it doesnt sound worth it to me, this $25 a load deal.

 

[teatersroad]

It is not a conundrum, some folks is just being a little dense. In business there are expenses directly related to the cost of doing business. The money you take home is your 'profit', you can spend your profit on candy bars and toothepaste, think of it as income. You also spend your income on income taxes.

I build furniture. say simply, I work full time one year and sell $80,000 worth of furniture. Did I earn about $40 an hour? Maybe, but not the same $40 an hour as my neighbor. I had to spend $10,000 on shop rental, purchase/depreciate tools by $5000, $3500 in liability insurance for my business, another $12,000 on Lumber, shop supplies, and contract services directly related to doing business. In order to sell $80,000 in furniture I had to spend $30,500. My profit/income was closer to $25 an hour. Same with cutting firewood, there are expenses directly related to that endeavor.

Income taxes however are not a business expense. If you are having trouble with this you might consult a CPA.

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

I understand what you are saying Mark, and it's correct from your perspective.

No, it's correct from the perspective of Economics 101.

We are really all correct here from our given perspectives.

No, you are not. You are just wrong, and don't know it. That's why you'll never make much money. You don't understand the basics.

I see a lot of that on this board. From the evidence presented here, I'd guess that most small tree companies live pretty much hand to mouth, or not much better, and will never do any more than that, because they know a ton about trees, but very little about business.

 

[USMC0802]

I understand what you are saying Mark, and it's correct from your perspective. We are really all correct here from our given perspectives. But let me have some fun and beat this dead horse a little myself.

Expences are indeed real, and for the most part are constant. For instance, the cost of an F250 to deliver wood is the same for both the full time guy and the part time guy. But this is the key difference that some of us are trying to point out: The full time guy has to pay for his truck, and everything else, entirely from his wood business. The part time guy, say a landscaper, pays for that truck from his landscaping business. A guy doing wood "on the side", has some other primary source of income that covers most of the expences associated with selling some firewood. Yeah, these guys often work cheap, but it's largely due to the fact that they don't have to be concerned with margins or being efficient. It's just "extra money" to them, and it can add up nicely.

A more common example is that I have tons of customers that do a few lawns on-the-side. Retired guys, high school kids, whatever. Buy a small cheap trailer, load up the lawn tractor that they already own and off they go. A guy can do just two $40 lawns a day and have $400 cash in his pocket every week. Not bad.

Until that tractor/mower shyts the bed and you have to buy a new one. No tax write off or deduction for the Joe Baggadonuts homeowner who mows a few lawns for some beer money.

Same thing with the truck. No tax deduction for the mileage for the average wood cutter like there is for the firewood business.

No, it's correct from the perspective of Economics 101.






No, you are not. You are just wrong, and don't know it. That's why you'll never make much money. You don't understand the basics.

I see a lot of that on this board. From the evidence presented here, I'd guess that most small tree companies live pretty much hand to mouth, or not much better, and will never do any more than that, because they know a ton about trees, but very little about business.

Exactly. Until your business is your only source of income and you don't have a salary from some 9-5, you'll never understand the fact that all your expenses come directly out of your income.

Yes, when you drive to the office, your gas money comes out of your income, but it's different.

When you are the business owner, you can pass the expenses of doing business on to the consumer through the price of your product. Can't do that at the job. Try turning in your gas receipts to your boss and tell him this is what it costs to get me to work and I expect you to reimburse me for that expense. Good luck.

Until you've actually owned a business, you won't be able to appreciate it.

 

[BuddhaKat]

One thing I know is that the expenses for running a firewood business are pretty darn high. In my case, there just isn't a lot of wood to be found on the Eastern side of the Sierra's, and what I can get is far away and is all softwood that's been a fire, plus it's 3 years old now. It's still nice wood and my customers like it, but we figured it out a while back that it cost me $400 a day to go up and get 3½-4 cords. I'm a bit limited on what I can do so I have to bring two helpers to do all of the loading and ground work. I sell the wood at $170 a cord in the summer and $200 a cord in the winter. Not much profit, but it adds to the plus side of the column at the end of the year.

So I was out at a fairly close place to cut green trees today and on the way back I spot a big rig hauling 40' of cut and split firewood parked at the local restaurant. I slammed on the brakes and put it in park to check it out. A close inspection of the wood revealed it was oak. I told my helper we're staying put until that driver shows up. It wasn't 30 seconds later when a guy walks up. I asked him if he was the driver and he said he was. Then I asked him where he picked up his load. "Redding" he said. I asked him what the company was that he got the wood from and he says "Mine". Well it turns out he has an endless supply of oak and he wholesales a full truckload, 12 cords, for $2,700, delivered. HOLY :censored:! I asked him if he was in much of a hurry and he said he was, but he was willing to wait a few minutes. I called the boss and told her to get her arse up to the restaurant PRONTO! She thought I was in an accident or something. About 5 minutes later she shows up and I just looked at her and said "Honey, look what I found!" Anyway, to make a long story short, I now have a supplier for cut, split and seasoned oak for only $225 a cord. I can sell every cord I can get my hands on for $350, and I don't have to do a dang thing to it. That means I'll net out around $85-$100 a cord. That's easily double what I get now, for 1/10th the work. I'm totally stoked!

 

[Todd W]

California.
Bay Area, Sacramento Valley up to the mountains.

300-350 Delivered for Oak or Almond.

175-225 for Pine

 

[spike60]

No, you are not. You are just wrong, and don't know it. That's why you'll never make much money. You don't understand the basics.

Really?

Mark, my business consistantly does between $750,000 and $1,000,000 every year. I understand the basics very well thank you, and I watch it like a hawk. So I figure I'm doing OK.

Rigid thinking like yours, gets in the way of creativity, and you need some of that in business.

The fact is, whether you can admit it or not, is that the costs associated with being in business vary, and can be bourne differently depending on the particular business model. Different business models have different cost structures, even for the same type of business, ie: firewood.

I'll give another example. The building I'm in costs me $2000 a month. That could seem like a lot, or like a great deal depending on where you are. My labor rate is $60 an hour. Like in most towns, there are guys that do some small engine repair out of their garages at home. They charge $30 per hour. His cost structure is less, so he can charge less.

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

Rigid thinking like yours, gets in the way of creativity, and you need some of that in business. .

Creativity in accounting gets people in jail.


I don't care how much money you are running through your business, if you think this is all just a "matter of opinion", you have no clue.

Save your creativity for your marketing efforts.

 

[USMC0802]

I'll give another example. The building I'm in costs me $2000 a month. That could seem like a lot, or like a great deal depending on where you are. My labor rate is $60 an hour. Like in most towns, there are guys that do some small engine repair out of their garages at home. They charge $30 per hour. His cost structure is less, so he can charge less.

This is exactly our point. You have confirmed it. Your expenses are higher so you must charge a higher amount to cover said expenses. Your labor rate is $60/hour, but that doesn't mean you're bringing home $60/hour. The guy charging $30/hour might have more net income than you do because his expenses are lower.

 

[rmihalek]

Just heard over the weekend: $600 for 3 cords delivered. The town is a distant (30+ miles away) suburb of Boston. No idea on the quality of the wood, but the guy who mentioned this to me will be finding out soon!

 

[spike60]

Creativity in accounting gets people in jail.


I don't care how much money you are running through your business, if you think this is all just a "matter of opinion", you have no clue.

Save your creativity for your marketing efforts.

You're the clueless one Mark, not to mention obstinate and incredibly close minded, but it's pointless to continue the discussion cause it will only start to get nasty since neither of us are the type to back down, and I'm not really interested in wasting any more energy on this.

We both run our businesses the way we see fit; we're both happy; and that's cool for the both of us. Have a prosperous year.

 

[spike60]

This is exactly our point. You have confirmed it. Your expenses are higher so you must charge a higher amount to cover said expenses. Your labor rate is $60/hour, but that doesn't mean you're bringing home $60/hour. The guy charging $30/hour might have more net income than you do because his expenses are lower.

Yeah, exactly. I agree with you 100%. I guess in a way we've been saying the same thing, but maybe coming at it from slightly different directions.

 

[BuddhaKat]

California.
Bay Area, Sacramento Valley up to the mountains.

300-350 Delivered for Oak or Almond.

175-225 for Pine

Yeah, that's about right. Over here in Reno a cord of hardwood is going for up to $380-$390 on Craigslist. The wife looked it up last night. You know the stuff from CL is a crap shoot. The wood I looked at was perfectly cut and split and all of it was fresh. There was no junk wood at all.

The wife pointed out how it must have been divine intervention that I drive down that road at that exact time. If I'd have been 10 minutes later he would have been gone and I'd have never known who he was. It was a lucky break for me.

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

You're the clueless one Mark, not to mention obstinate and incredibly close minded,

I'm the one who knows what the rules of accounting are. And they are RULES. As in, legal requirements. They are not a matter of opinion, and they are not open for debate.


When the IRS comes knocking, you'll find THEM very close minded and obstinate.

And they will win.

You need to look up something called, "GAAP".

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

One further thought:

If you are not taking all the deductions you are entitled to, because you don't know what your expenses are, any self-respecting IRS auditor, when he's gone over your books, is going to give you a friendly smile, pat you on the head and say, "You're doing just fine! Keep up the good work."

And if you listen closely, you'll hear his guffaws as he drives away.

 

[spike60]

I'm the one who knows what the rules of accounting are. And they are RULES. As in, legal requirements. They are not a matter of opinion, and they are not open for debate.


When the IRS comes knocking, you'll find THEM very close minded and obstinate.

And they will win.

You need to look up something called, "GAAP".

What on earth are you talking about??????????????????????? How did you get way off course here? I'm totally legit, have a great accountant who doesn't stretch the rules, and have nothing to worry about.

This is pretty comical.

 

[rider93hawg]

Hey Banshee!
I appreciate all the ciphering you did to help me to save my $ but I am afraid it was all for naught as your figures are way off. I do admit that "I have new information. This aggression will not stand, man." that you were not privy to at the time so I concede it is not your fault. I told another guy about it and he said to get him in on it and we will take his truck and dump trailer and load up. After that he will deliver and even help me stack my half. So in a sense you are correct that besides the $25 I will probably need Big Gulp and maybe even a Swiss Roll. So let's see...local quickie mart has 44-oz for .89 and Little Debbie is on sale for a $1 which there is 6 packs to a box...HMMM....that comes to 16.6 cents a pack (which I will round up to .17 for the sake of this discussion) + the 89+.07 tax + $25 for a grand total that = $26.13 a cord. WHEW! You had me scared I was wasting my wife's hard earned $$$!!!