Wood stove insert draft problems - what a pain!

[steved]

The code I am speaking about has nothing to do with the wood stove but the termination of a chimney. Which is 2ft higher than 10ft over from the termination point. The poster has not shown any pictures of the install so it's difficult to guess what other surrounding factors are or could be affecting the draft.

The pictures he posted looks like the chimney is way shorter than the house roof...optical illusion?

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[mga]

it's an outside chimney...always going to be cold when starting a fire. just have to pre-warm it before lighting your fires.

once it gets warm, you shouldn't have any problems

 

[Cerran]

it's an outside chimney...always going to be cold when starting a fire. just have to pre-warm it before lighting your fires.

once it gets warm, you shouldn't have any problems

I would tend to agree. Seems to be suffering from the "evil chimney" effect from being cold. My downstairs stove has the same issue and I heat the pipe with a heat gun on really cold days before lighting the fire.

How much insulation did they put on the outside of the 6" liner? Also do you have pictures of the install from inside? Did they put a tee at the bottom of the chimney? If so is the bottom of the tee closed up and sealed?

Is there a block of plate at the bottom of the chimney? If not this can be a big one on some installs.

 

[Granpajohn]

Back to the OP...
You have described my old insert draft issue exactly; (external chimney, smoke from vents, etc).
I also tried most of the same fixes.
The propane torch idea is OK, but too time consuming. (I used a can of Sterno also. Still no good)

Now we routinely use an old hair dryer which I have fitted with a little flexible snout. I can wiggle that thing above the baffle board and let it blow to the chimney for no more than 60 seconds, and the icy cold draft is reversed. It is like a miracle cure, and we've been doing this for about 5 years now. It should work with a VC too.

 

[dave_376]

I assume you read the manual for your stove. But if you didn't or if you are unsure double check that you have the air open all the way (to the left iirc) the fan off. Start with some loosely balled paper 2 or 3 sheets. Open the door and lite the paper, keep a door or window cracked to allow cold air into the house. Hopefully that will heat your liner enough to pull draft.


Option 2 run a heat gun/ hair dryer in the liner to get your draft drawing.

I like to use the wax cardboard fireplace logs as fire starters, I break off a chunk and lite it. That may also help you out.

 

[blades]

Possibly as they are shot from the ground up- but it still looks to be -cap flush with peak of roof- indicating a need for an extension of the flue.

 

[betterbuilt]

What a PITA. Just throwing this out there. I'm kinda wondering if it isn't the temperature difference from the inside to the outside. I was having issues in my shop when when it wasn't cold enough outside. It's been awful warm here for the last couple days.

 

[bigbadbob]

That's no BS. My stove is on an outside wall in the lower level with over 20' of class A stainless chimney. The chimney extends 36" above the highest peak with zero obstructions on a hill. My house is extremely tight and well insulated and my stove draws it's combustion air from a separate vent running outside. After some trial and error I figured out that I need a hot fire really quick to get the draft working otherwise I have a living room full of smoke. It also helps to crack a window on the other side of the house. So, just because you have a strong draft doesn't mean every setup and every situation is just like yours. Many stoves and fireplaces I have used over the years have a required a technique to start.

Mine is the same,,,FWIW
BBB

 

[Mike-M]

What if you put a window fan blowing IN, in the basement or some room you dont need to go in. Run it for a few minutes to increase the pressure in the house, then see if air will go up the flue instead of down.

 

[user 122190]

So what finally happened with this stove problem?

 

[fatboycowen]

Not much to update. I've been trying different things. In warm weather, the draft is much easier to get going. Colder is worse.
I took out the upper plate to view up the chimney. Connections look fine. Stainless liner is not straight. It's one of those flexible ones, and it curves around a bit as it goes up, so you can't see the top. The masonry chimney is straight as an arrow. Is this a problem?

I plan on getting up top and adding height but haven't gotten around to it yet.
Once it's going, I'm happy with it. So it's usable.

 

[Marshy]

Did you call and ask the installer for assistance? You'll never get what you dont ask for.

 

[fatboycowen]

Yes. They had some suggestions on starting a draft. Told me what to check on the stove. They also offered to raise the chimney (for a price) and also suggested a draft collar. The draft collar idea is very interesting and I think would work well for me. But I want to try raising the chimney first.

Has anyone tried the draft collar? They get great reviews. A little pricey, but it might be a good solution to easy start up.

 

[fatboycowen]

I've since sealed up the attic a lot better. The boiler chimney had no fire stopping or anything where it padded thru the attic. I sealed it with fiberglass, metal flashing and fire proof silicone. It Didn't seem to change anything.
The chimney itself may be drafting. If that is the case, what is the fix?
I've tried to window thing. Doesn't help. I haven't had it open for a long time before starting to heat the chimney. I don't see the point in letting out all the heat before starting the stove....

 

[Dr. Hackemoff]

Not much to update. I've been trying different things. In warm weather, the draft is much easier to get going. Colder is worse.
I took out the upper plate to view up the chimney. Connections look fine. Stainless liner is not straight. It's one of those flexible ones, and it curves around a bit as it goes up, so you can't see the top. The masonry chimney is straight as an arrow. Is this a problem?

I plan on getting up top and adding height but haven't gotten around to it yet.
Once it's going, I'm happy with it. So it's usable.

Sorry to hear about your problems. My daughter had a napoleon installed in her house, two story in a corner. The installers were qualified (they did mine too), and argued that the stack was tall enough. But they had enough down draft problems - like you - that that didn't want to use it. So the installer added another section and voila, problem solved, no problems since. That's what I'd suggest, and it seems a few folks here did too. You might need more than one additional section (?)

Bottom line you don't want to worry about down drafts, and you shouldn't have to use excessive kindling to get the draft going.

BTW my daughter's installation does not have an outside air source, and the house is newly sided and new windows, and tight.

Good luck - and let us know what works.

 

[blades]

interesting that the liner is corkscrewed in the chase- dosen't sound right.

 

[firebrick43]

This is not a permanate fix just a test to see if a taller chimney would help and inexpensive to try. Go buy two sections of cheap stove pipe. Kind that's sold flat and you have to slide together.

http://www.menards.com/main/mobile/...ge-black-pipe-crimp-both-/p-115104-c-6891.htm

If your liner is 6" get that size pipe . If it doesn't fit snugly over the liner take a heavy pipe/anvil horn and beat out the stove pipe expanding it until it does.
On a calmer day, Crawl up on the chimney, remove cap, and set a section over chimney. Light a fire and see if your problem goes away? No, try 2 sections. If it does you need a taller chimney. I don't know what kind of liner you have but surely there is a ss straight sections sold that adapt. If the flexible liner cork screws down slightly, that normal, it's difficult to install flexible liner perfectly straight. Did they seal well between the liner and masonry at the top? If not water can infiltrate and saturate the insulation causing it to become ineffective until dried out. Otherwise you may just have to live with the hairdrier/heat gun trick

 

[nathon918]

interesting that the liner is corkscrewed in the chase- dosen't sound right.

its installed in a masonry fireplace, the flue is somewhat offset due to the smoke shelf, and damper placement, usually pretty hard to see up the chimney...

 

[fatboycowen]

I will try the stove pipe idea. Thank you.
Will I have to brace it? How long are the sections?

 

[zogger]

I will try the stove pipe idea. Thank you.
Will I have to brace it? How long are the sections?

Regular cheapo single wall black stove pipe? I see it 12 to 24 around here. But..for not much more and the same work, if this was me with a draft problem, I would just go ahead and get the proper pipe for your install, stainless steel no doubt, and go like three feet more.