Yarder logging

[StihlKiwi]

Not asking the guy to invest very much are you?

Seriously though if he can get a 25 ton excavator around he might as well shovel log it. Maybe put a drum on the shovel to reach some of the softer spots.

Grapple yarders are obsolete.

Maybe they are in the US, but there's still a use for them. Timber, terrain, productivity etc all dictate that.

For interest's sake, have you heard of the falcon forestry claw? Its a mechanised grapple that you can run on tower yarders

 

[Humptulips]

I agree with ya Hump, grapple yarders are dead for the most part in the US. A certain timber company has one and grapples everything they can; then stick a carriage on it and get the rest of the easier yarder ground. The loggin supe says it's super efficient and cheap compared to runing a full crew. Only reason they do it is cuz they have enough ground to keep it busy. Otherwise it wouldn't be feasable. ALthough I don't know why a Gypo doesn't get one and specialize in grappling and bounce around between different timber outfits to stay busy. Gotta beat L&I somehow. Any insights there Hump?

The reason they are obsolete is they are not versatile. There are very few places you can use them you cannot shovel log. So you move into a show maybe there's a few places you can use them. What happens to your crew when they are layed off? They aren't there when it comes time to log the rest.
Also, it takes a lot of road changes because you have to go narrow. That takes time. Tailhold machine, walking it around the back end? Ever looked at a logging show lately? Notice all the RMZs and leave trees. You can't walk a tail machine much anymore most places.
To top it off you can out produce a grapple machine with a dropline carriage. More expensive to run a crew to be sure but with the increased production it makes them closer.

In a perfect world a grapple machine could move around to all the shows perfect for it. When the big timber companies had their own sides they did that.
Now though a gypo needs a machine he can use what ever show he gets. It's tough enough to keep your yarder working without being selective about what you will log.

 

[Humptulips]

Maybe they are in the US, but there's still a use for them. Timber, terrain, productivity etc all dictate that.

For interest's sake, have you heard of the falcon forestry claw? Its a mechanised grapple that you can run on tower yarders

Heard of them. Can't imagine that being cost effective.

 

[OlympicYJ]

Heard of them. Can't imagine that being cost effective.

For my edification what makes it expensive hump? I should buy you coffee one day and pick your brain for it's knowledge :msp_w00t:

Oh when we were talkin about trappin I forgot to tell you but my grandpa and dad are supposed to have bountied the last two bobcats in Grays Harbor back in the day.They were usin hounds though.

 

[hammerlogging]

Seriously though if he can get a 25 ton excavator around he might as well shovel log it. Maybe put a drum on the shovel to reach some of the softer spots.

.

Of the swamps I've seen the shovelling is fine, tracks are fine, yes they do run wide tracks, a few passes are fine for a shovel or fellerbuncher, but skidders need the corduroy roads. If there are not enough stems per acre to build the road to get to the back end the system is shot. Shovel would work if the distance is short enough, but shovels like some density too.

As Gologit pointed out, many stand factors not known. I don't know if a tracked machine would stay afloat as a tail hold

 

[OlympicYJ]

It might have some issues with staying afloat but just thought. if were using a shovel as a mobile tailhold he could use mud mats as he moved... Would be impractical for shovel logging I would think but just moving on one trail it could work I think.

 

[Rounder]

"To the OP, it is not quite as bad as it sounds, but given low density, helicopter may be more feasible, as silly as it sounds."



Knowing nothing of the economics of the OP's deal...., but a kmax with a good pilot can move wood so fast, it'll make your ####### head spin. Sometimes exspensive at the start is cheaper / less ####ing around in the end.

 

[hammerlogging]

"To the OP, it is not quite as bad as it sounds, but given low density, helicopter may be more feasible, as silly as it sounds."



Knowing nothing of the economics of the OP's deal...., but a kmax with a good pilot can move wood so fast, it'll make your ####### head spin. Sometimes exspensive at the start is cheaper / less ####ing around in the end.

Ya, for all I know he's logging old growth cypress out of a real swamp, real 6' dia. stuff, not the 3rd growth tupelo swamps of the southeast swamp loggers. big difference.

 

[RandyMac]

Three truck tow - 1,500 hp - one job - [url]www.TruckingFantastic.com - YouTube[/url]

 

[Humptulips]

For my edification what makes it expensive hump? I should buy you coffee one day and pick your brain for it's knowledge :msp_w00t:

Oh when we were talkin about trappin I forgot to tell you but my grandpa and dad are supposed to have bountied the last two bobcats in Grays Harbor back in the day.They were usin hounds though.

Narrow roads makes for lots of road changes. That takes time and probably a couple guys to keep up. Only point in the bigger yarder is longer yarding which means the engineer will need a spotter. so you have a crew of four yarding one log at a time as opposed to a crew of 5 or 6 bringing in 4+ logs at a time with less down time for road changes.
Also you can't cold deck much so you have a shovel sitting there idle half the time because there is only one log at a time making it to the landing.

Bottom line is if they were a good idea everyone would be using them which they are not.

 

[StihlKiwi]

Narrow roads makes for lots of road changes. That takes time and probably a couple guys to keep up. Only point in the bigger yarder is longer yarding which means the engineer will need a spotter. so you have a crew of four yarding one log at a time as opposed to a crew of 5 or 6 bringing in 4+ logs at a time with less down time for road changes.
Also you can't cold deck much so you have a shovel sitting there idle half the time because there is only one log at a time making it to the landing.

Bottom line is if they were a good idea everyone would be using them which they are not.

I take it by roads you mean settings?
Shouldn't need a spotter with the falcon claw; thats what the camera is for, its one of the advantages it has over a traditional grapple. And if you process with the digger that's clearing the chute it lifts the efficiency there.

You raised a good point about grapples in general when you mentioned that not all forests are suitable, but over here there are guys with yarders that will spend years at a time in one forest, on similar terrain. If a grapple suits the job, on it goes. Doesn't take long in the scheme of things to go from a grapple to north-bending etc or vice versa when necessary.

 

[StihlKiwi]

Three truck tow - 1,500 hp - one job - [url]www.TruckingFantastic.com - YouTube[/url]

Thats cool, looks like one hell of a road up the hill. There is no way that yarder is 150t though, not even close

 

[OlympicYJ]

We must of been typing at the same time hump. Gotcha on the dropline. That's what I was wondering what was making it more expensive in comparison to. Thanks hump.

 

[Humptulips]

I take it by roads you mean settings?
Shouldn't need a spotter with the falcon claw; thats what the camera is for, its one of the advantages it has over a traditional grapple. And if you process with the digger that's clearing the chute it lifts the efficiency there.

You raised a good point about grapples in general when you mentioned that not all forests are suitable, but over here there are guys with yarders that will spend years at a time in one forest, on similar terrain. If a grapple suits the job, on it goes. Doesn't take long in the scheme of things to go from a grapple to north-bending etc or vice versa when necessary.

So how do you keep a decent crew when you've turned it into a part time job?

 

[StihlKiwi]

So how do you keep a decent crew when you've turned it into a part time job?

Good point. and one that will have to be dealt with on a case by case basis. Crews that predominantly run grapples will be able to carry on as normal I guess, and the only crew I'm aware of running a Falcon, other than the crews doing the testing, the owner has got the breaker-outs falling etc, and has said he wont lay them off, although I suspect he most probably wont replace them when they leave.