Dealer says 441 M-Tronics are junk

[lone wolf]

We have had this discussion here before, when the first MS441 saws were introduced. It is plain to see we have two schools of thought on this thread, new technology guys, like myself. And the old school "flat earth society" types. I traded my standard 441 I bought in 2006, two weeks ago for a MS441 R C-M. All I can say from my personal experience with the saw is wow! It starts really well, not cold natured and is a very strong saw in the cut. I never experienced the "hunting" of the carb, it seems to do it in a seemless manner. I love old iron also, I have a 056 Mag II and a Homelite C51, but you can see after running these how technology has changed chainsaws in a relatively short time. Much has been made about the complexity of the M tronic system. From watching the German animation on You Tube of the M Tronic it appears there are only 2 or 3 components and there is a diagnostic port for the technician to use. Seems like you plug in and it should indicate the failed component and you change it out. So you can still work on your own saw if you want. I suspect the technican's comments at the dealer were made because he was scared of this system and didn't understand it or want to embrace it. Have fun with whatever you buy, it's all good.
Steve

well if it fails what is the replacement cost?

 

[Slamm]

Brad, I knew a guy in the mid 1980's, driving a 1970's Honda car, and was pulling like 45mpg. . . Now all these new cars tout like 30 HWY, and toot their horn like they just invented sliced bread.

Correct, but have you ever ridden in that car, I have, you measure the 0-60mph times with a sun dial, and they ride like a box of rocks. The same can be said for any older small diesel car or truck, they get 50mpg, but it took the entire next county to get up to 55mph and then at the slightest hill, you were running 45mph if you could draft behind somebody, LOL.

I'd say that autos are not the best example of how EPA or evolution has ruined mechanical products.

You can't use saws as an example either, anybody want to work professionally with an old heavy Homelite, all day felling trees?????

The only thing that is costant is that there will always be people that can't or won't embrace change on the mechanical level, no matter how pathetic the excuses get to be.

Metal406, if the dealer has had to take saws back in return, then what risk do you have, get one and use it, cut trees with it, if it doesn't work, report back and take it back an get the 460. I don't see what the problem is.

My opinion,

Sam

 

[tlandrum]

i know im late to this party but here goes>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>XPW <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< ok im done ,continue on

 

[lone wolf]

We have had this discussion here before, when the first MS441 saws were introduced. It is plain to see we have two schools of thought on this thread, new technology guys, like myself. And the old school "flat earth society" types. I traded my standard 441 I bought in 2006, two weeks ago for a MS441 R C-M. All I can say from my personal experience with the saw is wow! It starts really well, not cold natured and is a very strong saw in the cut. I never experienced the "hunting" of the carb, it seems to do it in a seemless manner. I love old iron also, I have a 056 Mag II and a Homelite C51, but you can see after running these how technology has changed chainsaws in a relatively short time. Much has been made about the complexity of the M tronic system. From watching the German animation on You Tube of the M Tronic it appears there are only 2 or 3 components and there is a diagnostic port for the technician to use. Seems like you plug in and it should indicate the failed component and you change it out. So you can still work on your own saw if you want. I suspect the technican's comments at the dealer were made because he was scared of this system and didn't understand it or want to embrace it. Have fun with whatever you buy, it's all good.
Steve

Who wants a saw you are forced to pay a dealer to diagnose maybe they will sell a bull#### 2 year guarantee for a nominal fee .Hey maybe you can finance one if you have really good credit and a good down payment.Maybe they will even take your old saw on a trade at half the street value.Maybe they can spread your new payments out over a couple years with a low rate of finance if you have good credit.Get my drift do you?

 

[Jacob J.]

Call me old school, but I like to control things myself and not having to depend on some magical black box to decide how and when I work.

Geeze Roland, you're an old dinosaur.

But I am sure if there are problems with the M-Tronic, they will be sorted out by Stihl. I always stay clear of buying the first series of a new development....90% of the cases need finetuning or redesign, regardless of brand or type of equipment.

Yep, look at all the problems the 046 had when it came out. Now it's a fine saw...

 

[porsche965]

Ill tell ya what brad, build up your M-Tronic 441 and ill build up my 50mm 044 and we'll have us a showdown. Whatch say?

I'm in. This will be an Azz woopin like a 044 has never seen before. I have no pop up piston, no deck or squish adjustment, runs on 89 non-ethanol fuel, a real work saw. Just think how much more HP was left in my saw yet to be had. You bet, bring on your 044. For those new viewers here you go: Stihl MS 441 C MTronic 20" and 28" - YouTube

Put both on a logging crew from an efficiency aspect and you will really see the 441 M-tronic pull ahead in less fuel stops, no air filter checks all day, and a much better suspension. I know, I have a 440 dual port and stock 441 M-tronics as well. Unless you have both you really don't know what you are talking about.

 

[lone wolf]

I'm in. This will be an Azz woopin like a 044 has never seen before. I have no pop up piston, no deck or squish adjustment, runs on 89 non-ethanol fuel, a real work saw. Just think how much more HP was left in my saw yet to be had. You bet, bring on your 044. For those new viewers here you go: Stihl MS 441 C MTronic 20" and 28" - YouTube

Put both on a logging crew from an efficiency aspect and you will really see the 441 M-tronic pull ahead in less fuel stops, no air filter checks all day, and a much better suspension. I know, I have a 440 dual port and stock 441 M-tronics as well. Unless you have both you really don't know what you are talking about.

How many years has it been out?

 

[tlandrum]

if you sawzilla 441 saws are so mean lets compare them to other 70cc class saws like for instance an xpw like one of mine. youll find out what getting your azz handed to you is really like.

 

[Guido Salvage]

I have a 68' International that is easy to fix and 90' import that is impossible to work on with out a code scanning computer.

You own a Binder? How about some pictures? Since I actually owned these I have no difficulty documenting it via pictures.

My 1959 B120 4x4 that I have since sold.

This was my 1972 1500 4x4 that I have also sold.

This is my 1989 S1600 rollback with my 1985 S1600 flatbed on the back. I still own both these trucks.

 

[Myarmistired]

As a tech you either evolve with the changes or you die.

 

[Slamm]

What I find interesting is the MTronics and likely the Autotune provide everyone from those that know how to tune a saw or hear and faults in the tune and say someone like myself that until recently didn't care or bother with it, the exact same tune, and that tune is for MAX rpms in the cut and safe levels of mix gas to the piston and cylinder for proper lubrication and long life. Not to mention substantial increases in fuel savings.

There isn't one single solitary 044,440 or 460 or 660 owner or rebuilder or modder that can saw that about those models. Every few days some poor sap burns up a PC due to incorrect tuning. Maybe in this thread there are 15 people that can tune for optimum rpms in the cut, but they still can't beat the tune of an MTronics over the long haul. That is just a fact.

Whether one saw here or there or one guy here or there can or thinks its possible is an incredibly mute point.

My opinion,

Sam

 

[WoodChuck'r]

7 pages....

In under 12hrs....??








Wow.

 

[JLB-MT]

If I am assuming correctly, I think I know the dealer Metals is referring to. This guy is the real deal and knows his stuff.

 

[John_DeereGreen]

I just read through the first page of replies...so I could be missing something further in but...

I bought the first 441 M-Tronic my dealer had ever sold; he had never even heard of them until I wanted to order mine. Since then, it's cut about 50 cords of firewood, putting probably 25-30 tanks of fuel through it. I've run a 16 inch, 18 inch, and 25 inch bar on it, and it just keeps begging for more. I know I've only had it about a month, but it has hands down been the BEST and SMOOTHEST saw I have ever run.

In my opinion, anyone that says they're junk hasn't put any time on one, or is running poor quality fuel. I've noticed a change going from 87-89-93 octane gas, much more so than in my manual carburetor saws.

On any note, I love mine, and so do the guys that cut for me. I love it so much that I'm considering buying a second to replace a very tired 361.

I'm not running it as a logger, but I believe that firewooding is harder on saws than logging, due to the near constant wide open throttle for sometimes hours at a time. Mine has been great so far, with zero issues, unlike the 361's that the 441 is starting to replace; I look forward to many more cords of trouble free service.

J

 

[Metals406]

I want to address some of the comments since last night:

1) The tech is NOT a slouch when it comes to saws, their building, tuning, or operation.

2) They did experience the same problems at the shop that the customers were complaining about.

3) Logging is certainly as hard, if not harder, on a saw than cutting firewood with one.

4) I'm relaying a conversation here. . . I'm not freaking Amish, I don't shun technology or technological change (I'm typing on a laptop), and I certainly don't hate any saw.

I've also noticed that most, if not all, of you fellas that are posting about your experience with the M-Tronic are flatlanders. Our valley floor starts @ 3,200 feet, and goes up to 10,000' at the highest peaks. Do you think there may be a possibility that they run great at near sea level, but develop problems higher up?

I still think elevation may be playing a roll. . . What's the general rule of thumb for compression loss for elevation? IIRC it's 3% per 1,000 feet, so if elevation can effect comp, why couldn't it be messing with these carbs?

So to the guys who love their new saws. . . Awesome! I'm super happy that they run good, make lots of power, and feel good in the hand. I think a lot of you guys are almost taking this personally, instead of entertaining the possibility that there is a mechanical/scientific explanation for the problems the dealer is experiencing.

 

[HILLBILLYREDNEC]

Adding electronics to a saw is a sin :msp_ohmy:If aint broke why fix something that works:msp_thumbup:

 

[blsnelling]

For those new viewers here you go: Stihl MS 441 C MTronic 20" and 28" - YouTube

That 441 is by far the strongest 441 I've ever seen, hands down!

 

[blsnelling]

Here are a couple standard 441s I did. They aren't slouches either. Porsche's 441 seems to take it even a step farther though.

This one spent a lot of time on a mill and is still running strong today.
<iframe width="640" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/BbK4KoJFRmQ?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Go to 0:49 in this vid.
<iframe width="853" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/InCjxNvMO6s?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[mingo]

Stihls are impenetrable. Don't listen to the tech, listen to the masses on AS. The masses are always right

I listened to the masses and bought a 7900 my first mistake, my second was being stupid enough to buy another.

 

[PA Plumber]

It seems there was someone who was having trouble getting a 441 to tune at higher elevations.

I can't remember how long ago, but I want to say it's been at least 3 years since I read that thread.

Anyone else recall what what going on there?