Decision, decisions... 346XP vs. 5105/5100s

[sawinredneck]

What's a 5105/5100?

What with 28000+ posts I have a feeling that you know what I mean by 5105/5100s.:msp_wink:

Brad just hasn't learned how to tune a saw with a limited coil yet, he doesn't like any saw with a limited coil! It's a chainsaw, not rocket science.

The outboard clutch does put more stress on the outer part of the crank, I doubt enough to matter at all, but.........
The way I cut, I'll take torque over the gain in RPM's any day, I want to put a saw in the wood and make some chips, not dilly dally around making sure I keep the revs up in the cut so the saw is happy. The 346 wants revs to be happy. It and I don't get along!

 

[Brian VT]

The outboard clutch is a plus IMHO, it...keeps the load on the crank closer to the bearings.

I'm trying picture this in my head. It seems to me that the sprocket is in the same place on both designs. So...I'm picturing running it with no bar and chain on the saw. If the clutch is inboard, and it engages, isn't the load closer to the bearing than if it was outboard ?
I realize we're splitting hairs here and I've never split a case so I know nothing about bearings and cranks. I'm just curious is all.

 

[w8ye]

I essentially have both saws. I have a nice 350 and the 5105. The 5105 has more torque. But I really don't have any preference. It is which ever one has the sharpest chain at the time?

Why don't you shop around and see what you can get either one for and base your choice on price?

 

[sunfish]

The way I cut, I'll take torque over the gain in RPM's any day, I want to put a saw in the wood and make some chips, not dilly dally around making sure I keep the revs up in the cut so the saw is happy. The 346 wants revs to be happy. It and I don't get along!

I remember reading an old thread about your 346xp. Just to be fair here, seems there was something wrong with it, or something. There was some questions, it being used and all. If I'm remembering right?

I like to put a bit of pressure on a saw when I'm cuttin and both my 346s' will hold rpms great and make some chips. :msp_wink:

 

[Andyshine77]

I'm trying picture this in my head. It seems to me that the sprocket is in the same place on both designs. So...I'm picturing running it with no bar and chain on the saw. If the clutch is inboard, and it engages, isn't the load closer to the bearing than if it was outboard ?
I realize we're splitting hairs here and I've never split a case so I know nothing about bearings and cranks. I'm just curious is all.

The closer you are to the bearing the better. The chain mounts closer to the bearing so there's less mechanical leverage/bending on the crank. Think of holding a wrench at the end vs near the bolt you're trying to remove.

 

[Andyshine77]

The 346 has no torque issues. Here is a video of my MM 346 in hard 20" Ash with 3/8 chain.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/iMRPgHxaVzo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[sawinredneck]

I remember reading an old thread about your 346xp. Just to be fair here, seems there was something wrong with it, or something. There was some questions, it being used and all. If I'm remembering right?

I like to put a bit of pressure on a saw when I'm cuttin and both my 346s' will hold rpms great and make some chips. :msp_wink:

It never ran the way I thought it should, pissed me off! I made the offer to send it to anyone to help me figure out what was wrong with it and finally got a taker. He had the saw three hours, called me and wanted to buy it! Said it ran a tick slower than his EHP built 346xp? Wasn't the saw, it was me, plain and simple!
I've no problem being fair and honest about it, there's even a vid or two of that saw buried somewhere on here. I couldn't get the damn thing to run for #### IMO!

 

[w8ye]

I saw those two sparks fly off the top of the chain when you pulled the trigger?

That 346XP really has the power in the cut

 

[Andyshine77]

I saw those two sparks fly off the top of the chain when you pulled the trigger?

That 346XP really has the power in the cut

Metal chain on a metal bar spinning like mad, in the day it's happening all the time you just don't see it. My 346 is a runner, but they all seem to be.

 

[sunfish]

It never ran the way I thought it should, pissed me off! I made the offer to send it to anyone to help me figure out what was wrong with it and finally got a taker. He had the saw three hours, called me and wanted to buy it! Said it ran a tick slower than his EHP built 346xp? Wasn't the saw, it was me, plain and simple!
I've no problem being fair and honest about it, there's even a vid or two of that saw buried somewhere on here. I couldn't get the damn thing to run for #### IMO!

Was it an old model, pre 2007, 45cc?

 

[TK]

I'm trying picture this in my head. It seems to me that the sprocket is in the same place on both designs. So...I'm picturing running it with no bar and chain on the saw. If the clutch is inboard, and it engages, isn't the load closer to the bearing than if it was outboard ?
I realize we're splitting hairs here and I've never split a case so I know nothing about bearings and cranks. I'm just curious is all.

The body of the saw is wider with the inboard clutches, taking up that space making it seem like there is no space difference.

Picture it this way:

Remove the inboard clutch and trim the body narrower to effectively move the bar mount closer to the center of the saw and closer to the bearings. Then you have the clutch that goes into the clutch cover that you have with either style saw. You have just trimmed weight, moved the load closer to the bearings, and moved the leverage point closer to the center of the body rather than further to the outside. All positives.

The inboard clutch adds a bunch of width to the saw, making it heavier and harder to handle. Take the simple 290 Farm Boss vs. the 455 Rancher for example. I'm just going off the top of my head here, but I'm pretty sure I measured the overall width of the 290 being 1.5 inches wider than the 455. You hands have to move that much further to put the saw on it's side, and that's a lot longer distance to slide your hand down the handle to the side of the saw. Also, the fact that the mass is moved further to the outside means you have to use more force with your hand to physically turn the saw to it's side.

Given the overall characteristics of any saw, you may not notice these differences as being drastic. In a full day's work though, they will become apparent.

 

[sawinredneck]

Was it an old model, pre 2007, 45cc?

I'm pretty sure it was newer than that, but I can't say for sure. The whole deal was a mess!
It cut OK, but I modded my 350 and could cut circles around it! Even had some local arborist's run it at an improtu GTG where we helped an elderly couple out, they all chose the 350 over it!
I've yet to run a NE version, I'd like to, but I'll be damned if I'm buying one after the lack luster impression I had with the OE version compared to the hype!

 

[Brian VT]

Picture it this way:...

Good description. Thanks for taking the time to type all that out.
My simple brain doesn't quite get it yet but I'll look closer at some of my saws and figure it out.

 

[TK]

Good description. Thanks for taking the time to type all that out.
My simple brain doesn't quite get it yet but I'll look closer at some of my saws and figure it out.

If you have a saw of each type side by side it will make it easier to see the differences. I didn't think there was that much of a difference between the 290 and 455 until I had them both on a table.

 

[Brian VT]

Will do. I've got a J'red 2050 to compare to the 5100s.
Sorry for the Hijack, tallguys.

 

[sunfish]

I'm pretty sure it was newer than that, but I can't say for sure. The whole deal was a mess!
It cut OK, but I modded my 350 and could cut circles around it! Even had some local arborist's run it at an improtu GTG where we helped an elderly couple out, they all chose the 350 over it!
I've yet to run a NE version, I'd like to, but I'll be damned if I'm buying one after the lack luster impression I had with the OE version compared to the hype!

Probably was an OE 45cc, they need a lighter hand and more rpm. The NE 50cc version has more torque.

My OE whooped a ported 350 once, not by much. Something special about this one.

My NE 346 was faster than the old one by a good bit, but have since ported the old one and it'll smoke the new one. This stuff is a lot of fun! :msp_smile:

 

[Andyshine77]

Probably was an OE 45cc, they need a lighter hand and more rpm. The NE 50cc version has more torque.

You know that's what everyone on hear was saying, but I've ran the old edition and in my hands and in timed cuts they are not far apart at all, the 346 OE I ran was still ahead of the 5100 that was there at the time, it was at this mini gtg a few years back.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/wESfuvkGFqU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[sunfish]

You know that's what everyone on hear was saying, but I've ran the old edition and in my hands and in timed cuts they are not far apart at all, the 346 OE I ran was still ahead of the 5100 that was there at the time, it was at this mini gtg a few years back.

I remember that. Great vid! I still like my OE better and now that it's ported with a 357 carb, it's just a screamin lil beast.

My OE was faster than the NE, until the NE got broken-in, then it came alive. They were probably closer than it seemed. I'd like a couple more 346s' and would just as soon have the OE version...

 

[04ultra]

I'm pretty sure it was newer than that, but I can't say for sure. The whole deal was a mess!
It cut OK, but I modded my 350 and could cut circles around it! Even had some local arborist's run it at an improtu GTG where we helped an elderly couple out, they all chose the 350 over it!
I've yet to run a NE version, I'd like to, but I'll be damned if I'm buying one after the lack luster impression I had with the OE version compared to the hype!

Sawin Andy I know a guy that could send you a couple 346NE's or a couple 2153's ......Or a Zebra ....

 

[sawinredneck]

I'd still like to play with that zebra some time! You still have that tricked out 180? We need to see that in some wood!
I'm also still waiting on someone to send me another 5100 some time as well.