Expense account purchase for modern saw

[Fish]

I know that the ms290 isn't favored here much, but for what he wants, and what will likely happen to these saws, used parts for these are readily available and fairly cheap. Whereas there are so many different model Huskies that parts don't interchange, I think for his needs and
budget 2 ms290's would be a lot better than one $700+ saw.

 

[Jacob J.]

Guys I'm pretty sure he meant can't, or is joking

 

[Fish]

Price is going up for 2013

Will be gone in 2013, the ms291 is $100 more or so..

 

[opinion]

Will be gone in 2013, the ms291 is $100 more or so..

Yup, discontinued now but plenty still available. The remaining stock is jumping up in price in the new year and the 291 is dropping a little to ease the transition.

 

[RiverRat2]

Great replies guys and I appreciate the constructive criticism. I want to spend the money wisely and try to get the best saw that I can for what we need to do.

One of the main reasons I was thinking of an m-tronic or auto-tune saw is that when there is tree clearing work to do, typically the volunteer who does the sawing brings their own fuel along. Sometimes we have pre-mix in the equipment trailer, but it was whatever the previous volunteer brought along from 1, 2 or 3 months ago. I like the ideer that the solenoid controlled carburetors can compensate for a variety of variables like fuel, air filter status, etc.

The other thing I'm not 100% certain about is if all of our volunteers (well, at least the volunteers who agree to run a saw), know how to tune a saw. I had a guy a few years ago running the Craftsman screaming (way too lean). He was convinced it was the fastest way to cut. I had to back the H screw out a full turn to get it to four stroke and I think the saw was on its way towards seizing. He brought his own fuel as well...

So, I'm hoping to get some protection against events like this from the electronics. I agree that a MS290 is an almost bullet-proof option, but I think that only applies to folks like us who know how to tune a saw, clean an air filter, mix a proper fuelil ratio, etc. When relying on volunteers, that all goes out the window.

Oh yeah, if I tried to get volunteers to show up only to hand them a bow saw, I'd be SOL the next time I sent out a request for trail clearing!

One more thing You will be miles ahead if you or some responsible person takes care of the fuel and Mix.... I would not let joe snuffy the rag man bring the fuel one time and Suzie Q Ragamuffin the next unles you establish rules for fuel grade and premix brand/type ahead of time some how!!! Just saying... yes I know,,,, the sky is now officially falling:cool2:

 

[BloodOnTheIce]

I have the opportunity to purchase a new saw for my town's hiking trails volunteer group. Our current saw is a mid-1990's Craftsman. It cuts okay, but breaks down quite a bit and is a pain to start when it's hot. Due to the inferior quality of this saw, I've been using my own saws for trail clearing volunteer work. I actually don't mind using my saws for this purpose because I know these saws inside and out, so I don't have to worry about being 2 or 3 miles out on a trail and having a saw crap out on me.

The new saw will be used for trail maintenance and also storm clean-up. I'd like to get a light weight saw, but the other issue is (especially with storm clean-up) is we frequently have 20-30 inch trees (pine, oak, maple) come down across our trails, so the saw will probably have to pull at least a 20" bar with authority.

The final issue is that, because we're an all-volunteer group, sometimes maintenance is lacking: volunteers are pressed for time, so they want to show up, grab the saw, do whatever cutting is needed, and then the saw gets put away without being cleaned, no chain sharpening, etc.

Because of this, I want to get an m-tronic or auto-tune saw. I'm having a bit of trouble finding out what models from Stihl have the m-tronic feature and what Husky models have auto-tune. There's not a hard cut-off on the budget, but I'm hoping $700-$800 will do the trick.

Can I get some feedback from the group about what saws I should be looking at?

Thanks.

If it's for a Nonprofit group or government agency you should be able to do a bid with a Stihl dealer and
get it at a discounted rate anywhere from 10-20% off retail.

Also I'd purchase pre mixed canned fuel like SEF94 or 50 Fuel to prevent fuel issues

 

[VI sawguy]

It's an expensive saw to be used by a bunch of volunteers but a Husq. 555 would be a good choice given your criteria. I would also recommend buying some Trufuel or SEF to keep with the saw to be used.

 

[RiverRat2]

If it's for a Nonprofit group or government agency you should be able to do a bid with a Stihl dealer and
get it at a discounted rate anywhere from 10-20% off retail.

Also I'd purchase pre mixed canned fuel like SEF94 or 50 Fuel to prevent fuel issues

This is good medicine,,, on both suggestions,,,, and totally agree... the wrong fuel or improperly mixed fuel will wreck a saw really fast!!! I have seen it happen... people that volunteer generally have good intentions,,, some just dont have the proper skill set to take care of two stroke OPE.... just sayin hope it helps

 

[roberte]

IDK, this all sounds like a recipe for an "accident" to happen, saws or worse.
But what do I know

 

[dominic]

X2 for the MS290 suggestion.

And, a handful of quality bowsaws/pruning saws.

 

[Philip Wheelock]

If it were me, I'd have the volunteers bring their own saws and require them sign a general liability release waiver. If they own their own saws, they may know how to cut. If they don't and are using an unfamiliar saw, that's a recipe for a trip to the ER and letters from lawyers.

 

[rmihalek]

I know which of the volunteers to trust with a saw since I've been doing this gig since 2001. As I mentioned before, safety isn't the primary issue here. The deal is that we have an underperforming saw, a variety of users, and if the last two years are any indication of the future, we've had some big blowdowns to deal with that the little Craftsman just can't handle.

I'm trying to integrate all the suggestions and it seems like a good compromise would be to get a Stihl 290 (or perhaps wait until the spring of 2013 and get a Husky 455 with auto-tune) and then use the rest of the money for the canned fuel like Stihl's motomix or VP's TruFuel.

This isn't an urgent purchase and I want to use the money as wisely as possible so I appreciate all the ideas.

 

[knothole]

At the risk of getting drawn and quartered, the craftsman is a mid 90's model? I might spend a couple hours on the old girl and put a new (better) chain and bar on and send her out to get pummeled for 18 (?) more years. A new plug (the right one) and an air filter cleaning (assuming it has the sponge type cleaner) some fresh 93 octane w/fresh mix and she should keep on going. They cut slower, but they cut while being abused. I think that's what they are for. My .02.

 

[Scooterbum]

With your budget and the varied cutting conditions, get an ms180 and an ms391.

 

[mrnecsteve]

I dont recommend the farm boss (its great if youre on a farm and its sits on the back of youre pickup) You will be hauling the saw thru the woods and the ms290 is 13 pounds versus 11.6 not counting the bar. I suspect that you and the volunteers are clearing a path....not bucking up the tree and hauling it out.....thus the specification for one saw...not two or ten.
I recently compared the Stihl lineup at a dealer and chose the ms261 with a 20 inch bar for 569.The 20 inch bar on that saw will not overburden it for the occasional large tree.....but you shouldn't be doing cookie cutting contests. One of the particular features useful in the situation you are buying for,of the ms261, is the decompression valve. It will make starting a bit easier. You probably (hopefully) already know to limit the saw to qualified operators,so I will leave that topic be.
I recommend that you find a good ,local ,stihl dealer that will give a damn about your organisation and will be supportive of what you guys are doing.If you commit to buying one, ask the dealor if all of your prospective operators can attend a demo of the saw when you pick it up.Pay special attention to startup procedures . If you have a smart dealer,he might even offer some dealership tshirts or jackets that you can wear as a supporting sponsor?
The remainder of your budget should include an extra chain,a few files,some oil,a carrycase AND safety gear for one and only one operator (at a time)....otherwise youre first step in trail clearing should be to clear a place for a medivac helicoptor to land. (just telling you like it is with no hidden agenda)
disclaimer:
You might find an equivalent Husky arrangement...i dunno but good luck getting the support you deserve from a big box or internet based store.

 

[MPE]

I'm guessing most of the guys replying don't do a lot of trail work. The prospect of lugging a 441 or 6401 around, along with fuel, oil, wedges, an ax, etc., is nuts unless you're lugging it in a nice McKenzie pack. I've done the 7900/066 slung on my shoulder thing before, and even with a pad that is exhausting after a couple miles of even semi-rough terrain. Add in bad weather, snow, or river crossing, and it really sucks.

We need to be honest here, 20-30" trees can be tackled with a smaller saw. I'd look for a peppy 50cc saw with a laminated bar. When I do trail stuff I carry the smallest saw I can if I know what I'm going to be tackling ahead of time, sometimes just carrying an ax and quality (i.e Silky) handsaw; if I don't know and am going in blind, it is usually a 5100/18" or 346xp/16" that comes along, because a saw like that will do pretty much anything that needs to be done, even if it requires a few extra cuts or working the downed tree from both sides. And your arms/shoulders will be much happier when it is all said and done compared to lugging a 70cc+ machine around.

If you're actually lugging the saw back into the woods some distance, I'd also carry a second bar/chain and give substantial consideration to picking a saw with an inboard clutch, since that's easier to get the powerhead off without having to break the chain if a bar gets stuck.

As for the issue of the saw being run hard and put up wet, and fed questionable mix along the way, I see that as an invitation for a short lifespan for your new saw. Neglect is neglect, plain and simple, regardless of the intellectual justification for it. In my experience, the surest way to avoid that problem is to have people run their own saws. We had a shared 029 a few years back, it got abused, neglected, and wore out faster than it should have because nobody ultimately felt responsible for its upkeep. Money down the crapper.

Must my 2c, for what it's worth.

 

[Trailtrimmer]

We have a helmet with visor and ear muffs in the trailer along with chaps. Nobody runs a saw without those on. Personal safety isn't an issue. The issue is time: almost all the volunteers have kids doing weekend sports and when the volunteer work is done, there's no thought of maintenance. It's a mad rush to the minivans to get the kids to their games.

I'm thinking if I can get the 562XP with auto-tune (I'm assuming they all have auto-tune now, correct?), then that will be the way to go. I'll see if the dealer can throw in a couple extra chains and I'll keep 'em sharp with my harbor freight grinder.

Buying a pro saw for a bunch of volunteers who are not saw folks is going to be a huge waste of money.

First, it's going to get messed up or pinched in a log in the middle of no where. Volunteers will yank cords out, cut dirt, rocks, etc. The slower the saw gets the harder they will push, etc. Expect it to get beaten on by people who have no business running a saw.

Being it's a hiking group, weight is a big deal. You really don't want to drag a 60cc+ saw all over hell as it will wear you out faster. You are spending the majority of your time carrying it, not cutting with it. Pulling a big bar with authority isn't as big of a deal as you think. You are only opening up a trail, not doing a full yard clean up. The saw will be needed to whack a few limbs off and two or three cuts on the trunk to roll it out of the way.

Being you specified it's likely to be pine, cutting soft wood with a 45 to 50cc saw is no big deal. A MS250, Husky 445 or 450 with an 18" bar will do everything you need it to in a lighter, hikable package. With your budget you can buy two saws, file kits and a couple wedges to prevent pinches when a newbie is cutting out a trunk. Or you can get one saw with all the proper protection gear which is really the best route to take.

FWIW, I lead groups of volunteers on trail work days all over northern Michigan. We use cheap MS180's because they are light and parts are cheap. The 16" bar does all we need them to for 95% of the work and the adjustments are tool less so it's easy to do field adjustments. The powerheads are sub 9 lbs. and I can't imagine them being over 12 lbs loaded and ready to cut. For my personal saw I use a husky 435 or 346XP OE, I like a little more pep and am OK with the extra weight as it's good training.

I wouldn't dare wasting our organizations money on a big fun pro toy to get wrecked or that can do half the work of two saws with crews going on opposite directions. Consumer saws are the way to go as you'll never be out more than $300 when some one destroys one.

 

[2dumb4words]

Some good advice on some good saws above. I'm going a different direction though. I'd buy a pair of wild things. Much easier to lug for miles, inexpensive, surprisingly durable. Possibly add one 50cc Craftaman or Poulan, possibly a farm boss. Without a single user accountable, a better saw would not likely be a good investment. Think light and cheap.

On an operation where I had to carry it for miles, I'd rather carry a wild thing than a farm boss. Ms180 isn't much better than a wild thing unfortunately.

 

[Trailtrimmer]

Some good advice on some good saws above. I'm going a different direction though. I'd buy a pair of wild things. Much easier to lug for miles, inexpensive, surprisingly durable. Possibly add one 50cc Craftaman or Poulan, possibly a farm boss. Without a single user accountable, a better saw would not likely be a good investment. Think light and cheap.

On an operation where I had to carry it for miles, I'd rather carry a wild thing than a farm boss. Ms180 isn't much better than a wild thing unfortunately.

Non-profits can get a %20 bid assistance discount from Stihl dealers. That $200 MS180 is now $160 each or $240 for a MS250, add in some Stihl Ultra oil and you have a two year warranty so you can take them back to the dealer and not have to worry about doing repairs yourself.

Just sharpen chains, clean filters, keep adjusted and go. Any other problems, take it to the dealer. You won't find that kind of service for a big box store modern Poulan.

The other thing to keep in mind is logistics counts. Get two of the same saws with the same length bars. All your loops will be the same, sharpening kits, filters, plugs, etc. Users only have to learn operations on one style saw, etc. Having a grab bag of different saws with different controls, files, chains, parts, etc is a pain.

For $700 you can get two saws, chaps, file kits and oil.

If you already have safety gear, you can buy two MS230 Duros with carbide chains for about $600. The carbide chains will darn near idiot proof the saws and save you lots of time filing and you'll be less likely to lose a saw due to some newbie blowing one up pushing on a dull chain. You just need to get the chains ground once or twice a year at a dealer with the proper wheel.

I can't stress it enough that anything used by volunteers that are not passionate cutters will get destroyed, let them blow up the cheap stuff.