Tree Sling'r
Addicted to ArboristSite
Words will never help you fall a tree...
Felling tree
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blacklocst
ArboristSite Guru
Took down a 60 ft ash that had the top snapped off. Looked at it in all directions a few times and decided it was leaning up slope. Made my face cut and raced through the back cut leaving not much of a hinge the tree wound up falling 180 degrees from the intended fall. I would not be typing this today if I did not choose the right escape route.
fearofpavement
Trying them all
There are a lot of available resources out there and it's wise to utilize them.
Wind is something that many don't realize the impact of. Ever try handling a sheet of plywood on a roof? A piece of plywood is 32 square feet. Now calculate the sail area of a tree with leaves on it and multiply that times the moment arm (length of the trunk) and you will find that a breeze of just a few miles per hour can make a tree go in an undesirable direction. (even against lean) Ropes and wedges can help ensure a tree goes where it needs to. I rarely if ever fell a tree next to a residence without roping it even though it wouldn't need it. After the tree is on the house is not the time to be thinking, "I should have roped it".
Tree felling is by far the most dangerous aspect of wood cutting. There are a lot of forces at play and some don't even know what they are. Ignorance can get you hurt or dead. Just like in aviation, you can't learn just from your mistakes, you need to learn from other's.
There are some good books like Jepson's "To Fell a Tree" and the "Fundamentals of General Tree Work" by Beranek is another worthwhile publication. These books even show a variety of knots useful for tree work. Tying off a tree and using the wrong rope or knot can still put the tree on the house.
Youtube, while there is a lot of great info on there, is probably not a good place to get info unless you KNOW that the guy demonstrating a cut is doing it correctly. There are a lot of fools making videos and posting them up. No way to know how many have been hurt or killed "trying this at home".
If you are uncomfortable with a situation on a particular tree, just don't do it. I turn down jobs for that reason from time to time. Just tell the homeowner I don't have the capability to do a particular job with the equipment I have available.
Be safe out there!
Wind is something that many don't realize the impact of. Ever try handling a sheet of plywood on a roof? A piece of plywood is 32 square feet. Now calculate the sail area of a tree with leaves on it and multiply that times the moment arm (length of the trunk) and you will find that a breeze of just a few miles per hour can make a tree go in an undesirable direction. (even against lean) Ropes and wedges can help ensure a tree goes where it needs to. I rarely if ever fell a tree next to a residence without roping it even though it wouldn't need it. After the tree is on the house is not the time to be thinking, "I should have roped it".
Tree felling is by far the most dangerous aspect of wood cutting. There are a lot of forces at play and some don't even know what they are. Ignorance can get you hurt or dead. Just like in aviation, you can't learn just from your mistakes, you need to learn from other's.
There are some good books like Jepson's "To Fell a Tree" and the "Fundamentals of General Tree Work" by Beranek is another worthwhile publication. These books even show a variety of knots useful for tree work. Tying off a tree and using the wrong rope or knot can still put the tree on the house.
Youtube, while there is a lot of great info on there, is probably not a good place to get info unless you KNOW that the guy demonstrating a cut is doing it correctly. There are a lot of fools making videos and posting them up. No way to know how many have been hurt or killed "trying this at home".
If you are uncomfortable with a situation on a particular tree, just don't do it. I turn down jobs for that reason from time to time. Just tell the homeowner I don't have the capability to do a particular job with the equipment I have available.
Be safe out there!
Moparmyway
Its just a saw
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bnmc98
ArboristSite Guru
What I was trying to imply is that fear compromises judgement. Wisdom and fear are two very different animals. Most of the time fear will stop someone completely from doing something. Other times it can make you do stupid stuff like run from a tree that is falling, or move too quickly. I used to be afraid and got hurt quite a bit, usually falling down.
You don't have to be afraid to be safe or cautious.
Besides, I would rather meet my maker than live a life of fear.
MCW
Somebody's talking crap here & it ain't the tree!
Sure there are some good falling videos on Youtube. Just like this one - it is obvious to me that these guys fall numerous old growth trees and are professionals in their field. From their obviously massive skillset I can only summise that they fall trees this large every day and were professionally taught and trained
Note the guys face as he's trying to force the 3120 through the cut - his chain must have been sharpened well!
This video honestly made me cringe. These old trees deserved a far more professional death. Also check out the proximity of vehicles and tyre kickers.
That depends on what the words are and who they're coming from. And how loud the words are and if they're accompanied by a thrown rock.
MCW
Somebody's talking crap here & it ain't the tree!
That depends on what the words are and who they're coming from. And how loud the words are and if they're accompanied by a thrown rock.
When I was doing my falling courses the old instructor and ex faller had a really long stick. Anything you did wrong would result in a very painful jab to the ribs.
KG441c
Keith
I disagree. A basic knowledge before u start has got to help some?? Ive learned alot I didnt have a clue about since posting this thread as being the reason I posted. Any input with techniques and safety would be appreciated and thanks
The books like Dent's or Beranek's will help a guy learn the basics. They're a good starting point for someone with limited experience.
Just don't fall into the trap of thinking that "if I do this, the tree will do that" and expect it to work perfectly every time. The trees don't read the books.
Stay on your toes. Always.
MCW
Somebody's talking crap here & it ain't the tree!
Words don't help though. You actually need a chainsaw
I know what Bob means though. Everybody starts somewhere and it always helps to know the theory but in the end practice and proper training is what gets things done properly and safely. Now I'm no pro faller despite falling around 40,000 trees and I do not pretend to be in the same league as guys that have fallen old growth as part of their daily job.
One thing that I have constantly seen with guys that have little practical experience is that they actually know how to fall a tree but they don't have any feel for where the bar is in the cut. Am I cutting through the hinge? Is the tree starting to sit back or go?
A common mistake is running the bar tip through the hinge on the far side which can often lead to the tree (if not balanced properly) tipping back over the faller. I actually saw this happen to a guy at a falling course that interestingly had worked with a tree crew (domestic) for many years. He was running a 394XP and had the tree fall back over him. He was very lucky that these trees were part of a windrow and the neighbouring tree held it partly up. He was that focussed on getting the jammed saw out he actually overlooked the fact that there was a tree falling towards him.
Sadly on the internet we have what are called "the lowest common denominators". That means that advice could be given to somebody who is very smart or sadly advice could be given to somebody that kills themselves tomorrow. For example a mate of mine came out falling with me all day and was watching everything I did with extreme interest. The next day he drops one of his own trees and smashes the neighbour's fence and shed. There are so many things taken into consideration when falling trees professionally that quite often it looks very easy to an outsider with little experience.
I have seen members here in the past post photos of trees that have barberchaired and actually believed they did a good job because they didn't get hurt.
My advice would be to read all the literature you can in regard to falling, watch as many videos on Youtube of true professionals who know what they are doing, and then find as many trees as you can to practice on where there is little risk to property or yourself. Small trees are actually good to practice on. I have sent numerous small trees the wrong way (not thinking!) but only one larger tree. In that case I overestimated just how much load the hinge could take on a hardwood leaner and tried to swing it in a direction it didn't naturally want to go
All of my errors have been my own fault although one was a sudden gust of wind on an otherwise calm day.
adkranger
Addicted to ArboristSite
Sure there are some good falling videos on Youtube. Just like this one - it is obvious to me that these guys fall numerous old growth trees and are professionals in their field. From their obviously massive skillset I can only summise that they fall trees this large every day and were professionally taught and trained
Note the guys face as he's trying to force the 3120 through the cut - his chain must have been sharpened well!
This video honestly made me cringe. These old trees deserved a far more professional death. Also check out the proximity of vehicles and tyre kickers.
Wow, I think I know where the 394 came from that I just finished. Had to replace every single AV buffer and spring in that beast, the two rear springs were compressed about 3/4", front about 1/2", rubbers were either gone or worn to nubs.
Whole lot of WTF going on there. The bright side in light of this thread are the lessons of "what not to do" illustrated brilliantly; don't stand next to the stump watchin' the fell, don't walk in front of the face while the tree is moving, PPE??, too many folks milling around the tree and lacking PPE, not using a proper escape route (dudes standing directly behind that first monster made me cringe just watching a vid, it was an upslope fell too....), not much attention paid to the crown during fells (some nice, big limbs came down right at the base during one fell). I'm sure there's more...
MCW
Somebody's talking crap here & it ain't the tree!
Did you like the "Dualling Saws" moments? Interesting concept. Some really level and even cuts too.....not.....
I believe that the Japanese may actually lack anybody who has any chainsaw skills whatsoever. If that's the best they can muster for high value trees of that size then no wonder they lost the war
zogger
Tree Freak
I can't add a whole lot other than a basic "gravity works"! Read the tree and situation, see where the weight is, look up, top to bottom. Do it again. Step to another spot, do it again. You need to agree on what you are seeing from all the angles. And also what the smart guys said about wind. My situation is I can wait if it is a windy day. Leaves off, a real mild breeze, OK, any real wind or wind with leaves on, I go cut blowdowns or standing dead with no branches or go split wood, etc.
KG441c
Keith
I like the Massadam idea Mustang uses. Id like to maybe see some pics of the setup Mustang
adkranger
Addicted to ArboristSite
Some good info posted here and concur with the notion that you can only garner so much from an Internet forum. A good book on felling techniques is a good start, if for nothing else to learn the lingo and have a visual idea of what you should be striving for. Also the hazards to look out for. None of this replaces experience though and the real world can be a harsh teacher. I recommend a practical course for anyone that intends to fell a significant number of trees, even if not professionally. There are many to choose from and if I mentioned any by name it would probably ignite a whole new discussion lol.
One thing that is easy to recommend is to get yourself some four to six foots logs to practice your felling cuts on. Stand them up like a tree, practice using the "gunning sites" on the saw, properly matching your cuts, aiming your face for the target identified with the sites, get to the point where making your face and matching back cut are second nature. Instinctive. You can also learn much by analyzing your stumps and the lay of the tree after each fell. Did it go where you intended? did the base of the tree on stump do as you expected? Did the tree lay as expected? What went wrong and were you prepared for the event when it happened?
You can do everything right, punch all the right training/experience tickets and something can still go wrong. The goal is to cover the safety procedures so any "oops" is just a lesson learned and not a tragedy. Simplistic I know, but how exactly do you cover such a complex subject on a forum post?? Train, practice and never short cut safety.
One thing that is easy to recommend is to get yourself some four to six foots logs to practice your felling cuts on. Stand them up like a tree, practice using the "gunning sites" on the saw, properly matching your cuts, aiming your face for the target identified with the sites, get to the point where making your face and matching back cut are second nature. Instinctive. You can also learn much by analyzing your stumps and the lay of the tree after each fell. Did it go where you intended? did the base of the tree on stump do as you expected? Did the tree lay as expected? What went wrong and were you prepared for the event when it happened?
You can do everything right, punch all the right training/experience tickets and something can still go wrong. The goal is to cover the safety procedures so any "oops" is just a lesson learned and not a tragedy. Simplistic I know, but how exactly do you cover such a complex subject on a forum post?? Train, practice and never short cut safety.
MCW
Somebody's talking crap here & it ain't the tree!
True. Another thing to add is to assess the midline/balance of the tree. Work out just how much weight is off the centre line that will influence it's balance and potentially the direction it wants to fall. Different species have vastly different characteristics. For example conifers can sometimes hold a huge amount of shed needles in their canopy. If this mass has had recent rain the extra moisture alone could add tonnes of unseen weight. Hardwoods like some of our Eucalypts have a green mass of over 1000kg/m3 and are therefore denser than water. Therefore a single branch can add many tonnes of weight that you have to take into account. Trees also grow towards light. Trees neighbouring open areas have a tendency to be weighted towards that area which influences the way they want to fall.
Anybody can fall a tree in the direction it is weighted. Skill and experience shows when you have to get trees to fall against their lean or to hit a given point. Directional falling is where real skill develops and a whole new set of skills emerge in production falling (which I'm not involved in). Falling trees for a mill adds a whole new skill set and a whole new set of challenges. The way I drop trees would be severely frowned upon in a forestry situation
Another thing to add is that your stump is like a fingerprint. Even if the tree goes where you wanted and nobody gets hurt if your stump is out of whack or the angles are all over the place then the fact that you don't know what you are doing is as clear as day.
I heard a classic once...
"somebody's talking crap here and it ain't the tree!".
When I get my cuts out of alignment I cut the top off the stump and hide it
. Nothing worse than seeing a thread on AS from somebody who talks the talk but the photos of their stump is an absolute disgrace.
ColdStihl
Now the leg, huh?
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Use your "sight" on your saw thats why its there, im lucky enough to have one of my best friends who is a faller that now resides in montana but" goes where the work is " who comes home to bowhunt every year and he spends alot of time explaining stuff to me..he makes the farmer cutters around me feel pretty stupid at times
My neighbor came over this past weekend to help me fall six trees (20-32" dia dead-standing poplar). He has way more actual experience than I do, but his techniques were obviously farmeresque. We got them down, no one got hurt, and we had a good time burning gas. The point is, I saw different technique scenarios (based on what I've seen and read online lol) with each tree and he just wanted to do the same type of cut with each tree (with a sloping back cut to boot!). His help was free and he's a really good guy. We even had a moment before tackling each tree to re-affirm our love and devotion to our wives in case one of us dies.
Metals406
Granfodder Runningsaw
Sure there are some good falling videos on Youtube. Just like this one - it is obvious to me that these guys fall numerous old growth trees and are professionals in their field. From their obviously massive skillset I can only summise that they fall trees this large every day and were professionally taught and trained
Note the guys face as he's trying to force the 3120 through the cut - his chain must have been sharpened well!
This video honestly made me cringe. These old trees deserved a far more professional death. Also check out the proximity of vehicles and tyre kickers.
I think my toothbrush is sharper than their chains!!
And their technique is ummm, well. . . Non existent really.
