Getting off the grid?

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Coldfront

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I see a lot of people talking about getting off the grid and how bad it is to be dependent on electric, natural gas, propane, etc. but can you really say because you have a propane tank filled on stand by that you are still on the grid? If burning propane puts you ON the grid, then so does buying gas for your car and chain saw.
 
Highbeam

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The "grid" is the direct connection to a stream of supplies. Your car is not on the grid. To be "off-grid" in no way implies that you are independent of civilization long term. That's a whole different thing.

So I would not disqualify your off-gridness because of the propane tank. It is just another supply that you have to stock up on.
 
CTYank

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I see a lot of people talking about getting off the grid and how bad it is to be dependent on electric, natural gas, propane, etc. but can you really say because you have a propane tank filled on stand by that you are still on the grid? If burning propane puts you ON the grid, then so does buying gas for your car and chain saw.

"The grid" is the electrical power grid. So, if you generate, and typically store, your own electrical energy source, you're off the grid. Easily spotted by presence/absence of wires from the pole to your electrical panel.

Somehow, someone greatly expanded the concept to include gaseous and liquid energy sources, on his/her own.

Dunno that being on the grid is "bad" but it's pretty unreliable until the grid gets much smarter. That will take a NATIONAL investment of billions. TPers will get pretty haired-up about that.
 
ts39136

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The "grid" is much cheaper than a bank of batteries, if you happen to already be hooked up.

If you want to cut and ties from your household to outside influences, study up on the amish, they don't let civilization into their homes.
 
Rio_Grande

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I agree with the theme of the first post however I do think "Off the grid" came from folks setting up solar arays or other methods of producing energy.

I would LOVE to get "off the grid" even went as far as to lay out a solar plan for our home and a solar water heater. What I found is if nothing ever broke down after my inital investment I would be 83 years old by the time it was paid for. Now if Duke energy allowed me to put back into the system for credit it would be diffrent. But they dont.

I do have a couple 15 watt panels that I am going to put on my cabin along with some deep cycle batteries. That will take care of the electric needs out there.
 
Johndirt82

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My gold camp , where I was born and raised and now own, is oil lamp lit, although I do have good interenet and a phone line, the phone company had to install one as a life line when my dad reach technical senior citizen age , we use a honda EU 2000 with a 10k honda if big stuff needs to be run. The EU2000 will run 15 hrs on a gallon of gas , so thats far cheaper than going solar. We only run it in the evenings to watch a movie or something. Propane is by 5 gallon tanks , that runs the fridge and 1934 wedgewood stove. Thats about as off the charts as you can get and still be civil.
 
Coldfront

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It seems like now that we finally have modern conveniences that some people would rather go back to hand pumping water out of a well and crapping in a out house. I'm all for being self sufficient in case a disaster or the world goes to pot, but I'm taking all the modern conveniences I get. I burn wood to save money not because I want to be some type of survivalist.
 
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Johndirt82

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Its very freeing , to live off in the middle of no where , nobody to bug you, no neighbors , no city noise , I retire in 8.5 yrs and thats right where ill go back to in the woods cuttin wood and diggin for gold. I like modern convieniences too, like chainsaws, and trucks, beats an axe and a mule.
 
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zogger

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It's a matter of degrees

I see a lot of people talking about getting off the grid and how bad it is to be dependent on electric, natural gas, propane, etc. but can you really say because you have a propane tank filled on stand by that you are still on the grid? If burning propane puts you ON the grid, then so does buying gas for your car and chain saw.

For instance, we are partially. We get most of our food ourselves, we grow it. Not all, but a lot of it and in a pinch, heck ya, all of it. All the heat now, the propane is left over from the last winter we used it and it got filled back up. The tank is paid for, the propane is paid for..so might as well keep it, yes? I can do a bare minimum to get by with the electric with our solar. Not everything, but enough to get by long term, to at least keep some batts charged, run a light at night, etc. Now last place we lived, ya, whole house array, that was spiffy as all get out...the well is electric of course, but I also own a bore bucket and can have the bore opened up in one hour tops.

Solar isn't either/or, I have seen any number of guys kvetching about it, how much it costs..yet they never stop to think you *don't* have to do it ALL AT ONCE or even ever. No law says you have to have either all solar or all just grid tied central delivery, you can blend to taste. You can do one or two primary real important circuits, and keep it at that. To run the heater blower, maybe the home office, maybe the freezer is more important, maybe you want to be able to run window fans if the grid goes down in the heat of summer and no way to run the aircondo.. whatever floats yer boat. This is real common to stay both grid tied and just do some circuits in a sub panel. That is by far and away the most common way most people do solar PV.

Transportation..I only go into town once a week, I could drop that to once a month, meaning a full tank on my four banger diesel truck (it gets such great mileage one gallon does me a round trip) would last a year. Add a few five gallon cans stored, two years. Ya, still tied, but that is long enough to get things sorted out better, and yes, I eventually do want an electric truck. Unlike most people who insist they need a three hundred mile range, if I had a thirty mile range..good enough. then free fuel forever. that's on my for real I want to do it list. S10 or Ranger kits are out there now, for not that bad in price, I know I won't be waiting for the brand new electric sportscars to get cheap or practical or turn into trucks.

Same with my garden tractor, when that ancient kohler finally croaks, it is going electric, I already have a donor vehicle for the parts, an old electric ride on floor scrubber/sweeper.

I thought about going veggie diesel but I simply do not have the space in arable land to grow enough whatever, soybeans or such like.

And push really comes to shove, we got a donkey...or I can keep out one bull calf and make him a steer and have transpo and farm muscle that way. Horses are OK, but are high maintenance compared to donkeys/mules or oxen. Not totally opposed, I like them OK, but don't own any but have taken care of them in the past, I worked on a ranch, and also once in a commercial stables. High maintenance.

The whole concept of getting independent is taken from the opposite track,,,normal life you are dependent on circumstances outside your control, meaning you can get screwed constantly, and your life can change literally overnight for the worse, and you will have no *credible* fall back position..

I mean really, you are dependent on the goodwill of corrupt and now proven without any doubt completely bankrupt government and kleptomaniac international corporations to have your best interest at heart..and I just don't think that is reasonable to assume that they do. It's the opposite there. Ask the millions, literally millions, of dudes who have been job jacked and hung out to dry so some billionaire could make some more on his "investments". They don't care one bit if you live or die or be able to pay the bills or nuthin, all they care about is their yacht payments. And they tell their government lackeys what to do. If screwing you one day makes them more money and power, they'll do it in less than a heartbeat, then argue it is all for your own good.

Getting more independent is akin to tangible insurance, as opposed to some vague promise on a piece of paper in the drawer, or even worse, some government promise.

Boy sprout motto just taken into adult life, "be prepared". Lots mo bettah than "be not prepared"..it's just common sense and way more like successful humans lived forever, until the latter half of the twentieth century when "be not prepared" became "normal".
 
danrclem

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To me solar energy is not about saving money. It is about being prepared if our grid fails. I don't have any solar power yet but would like to have at least enough to run a refrigerator, freezer and some lights. I would unplug some things and run a washer when needed. I have a gasoline generator but realistically it's only good for short term. I also have a full tank of propane and even though I don't use very much it will run dry if I don't refill it every few years.

I need to get more serious about this because I think hard times are headed our way soon.
 
JimmyT

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I see a lot of people talking about getting off the grid and how bad it is to be dependent on electric, natural gas, propane, etc. but can you really say because you have a propane tank filled on stand by that you are still on the grid? If burning propane puts you ON the grid, then so does buying gas for your car and chain saw.

Coldfront, the Amish have been off the grid for over a hundred years and they seem to be getting by just fine.
 
Iron man

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For me I don't see any realistic way to get off the grid or in my case be independent of electricity.I looked into solar panels and the cost is out of site for something that will actually do the job.Generators cost too much to run on a regular basis so for now I turn off lights.Ive been a loyal oil user for years for mainly hot water because I like having my own fuel source in house but recently installed a electric water heater because the cost is killing me.I can switch back over to oil at any time but don't see it happening any time soon.
 
Guido Salvage

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There are always certain segments of society that think that the end is coming and that others (most notably the government) are out to screw them to the wall. They thus adopt a survivalist attitude and encourage others to do the same to prepare for the day of reckoning when all hell breaks loose.

For me it is a matter of perspective. Do you think that there will be no outside suppliers of the goods you currently receive or are you of the opinion that the world as we know it is coming to an end? Being prepared is one thing, being a fringe reactionary is another...
 
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There are always certain segments of society that think that the end is coming and that others (most notably the government) are out to screw them to the wall. They thus adopt a survivalist attitude and encourage others to do the same to prepare for the day of reckoning when all hell breaks loose.

For me it is a matter of perspective. Do you think that there will be no outside suppliers of the goods you currently receive or are you of the opinion that the world as we know it is coming to an end? Being prepared is one thing, being a fringe reactionary is another...

Your self title as A.S.badger is quite true......

Where is the fault in being prepared. I grew up in Richmond, and all my family is there. After the past hurricane I spoke with them and found that while most had generators, they lacked gas to fuel them. They had water in the well, but no electricity to pump it. There was food but no means to cook it. All up and down the east coast, the story is the same. Where is the harm in being prepared..? Having more than a weeks worth of grocery..? A few gallons of water set aside. Gas in a can. WalMart will not save you......You call them survivalists, extremists, radicals.....I call them survivors......prepared.
 
Guido Salvage

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Your self title as A.S.badger is quite true......

Where is the fault in being prepared. I grew up in Richmond, and all my family is there. After the past hurricane I spoke with them and found that while most had generators, they lacked gas to fuel them. They had water in the well, but no electricity to pump it. There was food but no means to cook it. All up and down the east coast, the story is the same. Where is the harm in being prepared..? Having more than a weeks worth of grocery..? A few gallons of water set aside. Gas in a can. WalMart will not save you......You call them survivalists, extremists, radicals.....I call them survivors......prepared.

As I pointed out earlier, there is a difference in being prepared versus being a cheerleader for the coming Armageddon. I wholeheartedly agree with you on having a certain amount of provisions (food, water, cooking source, heat source, etc.) on hand, but do you require 3 years of the same stored inside an impregnable bunker protected with electric fences, a dozen guns and 10,000 rounds of ammunition?

Sure there is a 1:1,000,000,000,000,000 chance I might need them, but I would rather focus my time and energies on activities that meet my more immediate needs and provide a greater return on my efforts.
 
Coldfront

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They choose to live in a area that might have hurricanes, they were warned plenty in advance. If they didn't leave or don't have the supplys for such a disaster I don't feel very sorry for them. Anyone who lives right on the ocean should not be insured at all. Why should all the rest of us have to pay higher premiums because twice every 10 years or so there houses get blown down or float away. Same thing if you want to live next to a big river. There is a reason people built houses up on a hill.
 
Bootjack Chris

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You will need to be a hard headed individual, flush with cash, who has a pioneer wife. If you have those 3 things you are bound to succeed in this venture. If you do not have them attempt this pipe dream only if you love the taste of crow, the waste of years and countless man hours, piles of cash, and love attorneys and the divorce court, and like watching another guy raise your kids. You will probably spend the rest of your years at the bar...remembering "I'm lyin here with Linda on my mind."
 
Billy_Bob

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The way I look at it... Each time some big corporation raises their rates and charges me more money each month, that ticks me off (if they are just being greedy). And it *inspires* me to find ways to reduce my Cable TV/electric/natural gas/automobile gas usage.

Sometimes I've been able to spend not too much money and reduce a certain bill to lower than what it was before a rate increase.

I may not be able to totally eliminate my dependence on something, but I can reduce my usage and the monthly bill. And I am happy with that.

For example I went to wood heating and was able to totally turn off the natural gas and the bills from that as well.

I've been able to reduce my electric use by installing power strips with switches on them, then using those switches to totally turn off things like all the computer stuff or all the entertainment center stuff. Buy new energy star appliances which use half the electricity of the old appliances. Etc.

And I had the cable TV disconnected. Instead I go to yard sales and buy VCR tapes which are now selling for 50 cents each or sometimes as low as 10 cents each. But I'm not a big TV watcher, I mostly read books.

As for the electric, reducing it further would mean solar electric panels. That would cost upwards of $20,000.00. And my electric bills average $40.00 a month. Or $480 a year. And Oregon has a stupid law that you can't sell excess electricity to the electric company, just reduce your bill is all. So that does not make financial sense. A loan for that would be much more in interest per year. Or that money invested could return much more than that per year.

So I am happy with reduced usage for now.
 
Highbeam

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Everybody is prepared for some amount of survival after the "end of the world". The only variable is how long can you make it without help or without acquiring supplies from outside of your home. Even the silliest city kid can make it a day before he needs to drink water. The extreme country boy who has given up most of his life in order to be prepared can make it years.

How long do you really need to survive? Longer than your neighbor? At what cost will you extend your preparedness?

I have an RV trailer I use for camping. It has everything I need to make it for weeks in the winter in total solitude. Maybe that's enough.
 
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