I knew the was a reason why I hate Vice grips

[kingston]

hands down would rather pay $18 for a used US made Crecent wrench vs a new Chinese one for $14...

in fact I have no problems continuing buying used American made visegrips.

I started the poll and so far 100% of those that participated agree with you...


Anyone know how to edit the poll text. I added and extra "made" in the second choice. I can't seem to edit it out. Thanks

 

[kingston]

I don't like Wall Mart, they are traitors to the U.S. But, as some just said, it ain't Wall Marts fault, its the folks who buy there, true.
Just like buying cocaine, the money goes to people who are not very nice, so it is buying Chinese stuff. Those who buy cocaine or Chinese stuff are hurting thier nation, so they can get high or feel good about saving a few bucks.

Not to get off topic, but according to T. Boone P., we should add Diesel to your list.

 

[kingston]

I totally agree on this point, it's very sad that the vast majority of people don't care or realize what impact this kind of thinking has in the big picture. I will and have paid double and triple for quality products made in North America (my preferred buying generally goes Canada first, USA second, Europe third, Asia - I can do without). It's not just about quality it's also about putting money back into OUR economy and keeping Canadian/American workers employed earning good wages. It comes full cycle - if the general populations views and actions on this don't change we will all be working at Wal-Mart to purchase our Chinese products from Walmart...............

+++++1

We can change. Folks just need to think. I'm not pointing fingers at any of us in particular. American marketeers have done a spectacular job of conditioning American consumers. I don't think most folks, myself included, know why they value what they value in the context of consumer choices. It's gotten pretty tough to distill out and identify particular motivations driving our consumer choices. I like most people buy stuff that I don't need. In the last several years, country of origin has become paramount to my decisions about purchases. I will go with out before going to China. I often buy used and will wait if at all possible.

We need to change. We can value quality over quantity. Buy less crap, and buy products made in countries who we share in the benefits of fair and equitable trade, who have environmental, and social values compatible with ours. Change is a constant. It's coming one way or another. We choose whether or not we want to contribute to what form that change is in. It takes effort and we've got to encourage our children and families to make the make the effort. I don't mean to run on and I don't want to sound preachy, but I am glad to have found others on this site who feel similarly.

 

[Taxmantoo]

I bought some Rubbermaid storage totes last month. I just checked the label, it says "Made in USA of global components". There are two components, a tub and a lid. If you make the tubs and lids in China, and brought them together in the USA, could you say they were "Made in USA"???

 

[16:1mix]

"I ooooooowe my soul....to the company store."
Tennessee Ernie Ford

 

[kingston]

I bought some Rubbermaid storage totes last month. I just checked the label, it says "Made in USA of global components". There are two components, a tub and a lid. If you make the tubs and lids in China, and brought them together in the USA, could you say they were "Made in USA"???

Most likely the polymers (in pellet form) were made overseas, and the tubs and lids were blow-molded domestically with those component polymer pellets. Just my 2 cents...

 

[clearance]

Not to get off topic, but according to T. Boone P., we should add Diesel to your list.

Why?-we should be drilling off the westcoast and the U.S. should be drilling in Alaska, bigtime.

 

[Taxmantoo]

I have a Stanly, don't know if I spelled that write? locking pliers Vise-grip like but I find it better Than VGs, Made in USA

I think you'll find the selection of USA made Stanley tools to be pretty thin these days. I've got a pretty nice flex handle Stanley ratchet, made in USA. Bought it at Wal-Mart for $12.97 about 15-20 years ago. Haven't been able to find another like it in over ten years.
I don't think the Irwin Vise-Grips I paid $17 for a couple of years ago are as good as the ones I paid $6 for ten years ago. I guess I'll do my shopping at garage sales from now on.

 

[WesternSaw]

Made in China!

Okay,most of us seem to be on the same page on this.I mean the made in China stuff.Does this contribute when we put money away for our retirement, in those mutual funds and pension funds and all those other funds,are they not invested in some company's that move there production overseas.Shareholders should think about how there money is invested ,but like most other things people only care when it comes around to bite em in the rearend.I try to buy Canadian,USA,European,but sometimes try finding a certain product, and no way can you find it made there.Extension cords,I looked all over the place could not find one that was not made in China.Maybe there is one but I don't know where it's hiding.The big Ragin Asian Machine is just marchin along.I don't think some of those people are getting treated very well working there either.Slave Labor.
Lawrence

 

[EngineerDude]

It's worse than you think

This greed thing that is the driving force behind what's now made Vice-Grips the latest in a continuing stream of businesses abandoning U.S. manufacturing plants is having a profound effect on the nature of the U.S. economy, and it's really terrifying.

Fifty years ago, even twenty years ago, our economy was based to a large extent on our ability to manufacture things for sale. Today, Wall Street and laws put in place by the s--theads in Washington provide huge financial rewards to the greedy executives who make these decisions to move overseas, thereby robbing Americans of their jobs. Private investors get rich because the stock prices go up because the product costs go down, and they don't give a rat's you know what about the consequences to the American workforce, as long as their wallets are getting stuffed.

And so, we had a manufacturing-based economy, and we've now transitioned to a largely finance based economy. The frightening part of this is that manufacturing provides stability (even if the economies of some of the countries we sell to become weak, others are still strong, and even if we have to sell our manufactured products for less, we still have something to sell), but a finance-based economy is a house of cards in comparison. It has no supporting structure. If the stock markets fall, we have no stable backing to help weather the storm.

Hold on tight, boys. Put some money in the bank and figure out what you're going to do if the house of cards collapses.

The alternative is for the U.S. to reinvest, innovate, and retake a leadership position. Problem is, it ain't gonna' happen with the laws in place. Fingers crossed for better days ahead, once we get rid of the moron!

And oh, by the way, would spend $18 on the U.S. tool over the $14 Chinese tool every time. Won't set foot in a Harbor Freight, won't even look at their ads. Etc.

 

[ozflea]

Well you fellas are no different to the chinese as again you fellas buy out our oldest companies and take our money back to the states so stop whining and get a life ...........

Our losses from Australia include Arnotts Biscuts, Victa Lawnmowers and you even bought out our Company that makes Vegemite it's about time you faced reality your not the only Country in this world and your trading polices stink.

Mc Bob.

 

[iowawoodcutter]

So very true. I try to buy USA if it's in my price range.

So true, it's tough times in America. With my job in jeopardy, which it is, I needed to buy a micrometer the other day and had a choice. I was at the tool shop and had a choice, the USA made one for 56$ or a china model for 24$. I asked the store guy which one was better and he said they were exactly the same, just where they were made. I won't say which one I bought, but which would you choose?

Everything is made in china. Big box stores like Walmart, home depot, lowes all pressure their supplies to lower prices. So what the hell do they do? The only thing they can do, lower prices, find ways to save money. Moving to china or mexico is easy way to do that. They don't have the health insurance, high wages, unions, etc. that come with American factories.

Now I don't tell the wife where to shop, but she always will shop where it is cheaper. If we bought our groceries at the local grocery store we would be spending 50% more every month. Example, I can go to the local grocer and buy Breyer's ice cream at 5.69$ a container or walmart at 3.69$. So we spend 600$ at walmart on groceries every month, could we afford to spend 900$ and support our local grocer??? That is the question every American is struggling with. Well at least I am. I think most americans are probably not thinking about it too much.

I would think at some point the government will need to step in to force people to make the right decision. The only way I see to do that is to tax or tariff any products coming into the US to make them competitive with made in USA products. Then you could make the USA vs China/Mexico decision with equal pricing.

Iowa

 

[Wood Doctor]

IowaWoodCutter said, "...Now I don't tell the wife where to shop, but she always will shop where it is cheaper...."
----------------
So does 90% of all the consumers in the USA. Here's an interesting fact that LOML discovered today. Walmart doesn't sell jumbo eggs around here. Extra large eggs are as big as they go and she showed me a dozen she bought as Walmart that looked puny to me. I said, "Please buy our groceries elsewhere. These eggs will work fine for baking cakes and keeping the dog's coat shiny."

Now, of course, I am not sure what all of this has to do with the production of Vice Grips being exported to China by the USA, but that's what I like about the ArboristSite threads.

 

[computeruser]

I would think at some point the government will need to step in to force people to make the right decision.

Wait, let's not do that. They're the ones who have encouraged people to make the very decisions we're criticizing at the moment.

What we need to do is to start encouraging people to be aware of where their goods come from, whose jobs their purchases support, and things along those lines. My grandparents, and in particular my mother's dad, took a dim view of cheaply made goods. He'd research, test, examine, and think about every purchase he made. Some of his tools were lower-grade, because they were rarely used or didn't need to be "great." Others that were used more frequently or served a more critical function, these were always first-rate tools, because they needed to be. Price was one consideration, but it was never the first consideration.

We just finished having a garage sale this weekend. We sold a bunch of vintage furniture and household goods. It is amazing just how flimsy and crappy so much of our modern household stuff is compared to the solid wood and metal that was used 50+ years ago. The fact that this stuff is still serviceable and desirable 50+ years later is a testament to its quality and craftsmanship in ways that plastic, formica'd fiberboard, and flimsy stampings never can duplicate...

 

[Lakeside53]

Here's another site with some similar views... but no chainsaws...

Some very good posts...

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=30591

 

[iowawoodcutter]

Wait, let's not do that. They're the ones who have encouraged people to make the very decisions we're criticizing at the moment.

What we need to do is to start encouraging people to be aware of where their goods come from, whose jobs their purchases support, and things along those lines. My grandparents, and in particular my mother's dad, took a dim view of cheaply made goods. He'd research, test, examine, and think about every purchase he made. Some of his tools were lower-grade, because they were rarely used or didn't need to be "great." Others that were used more frequently or served a more critical function, these were always first-rate tools, because they needed to be. Price was one consideration, but it was never the first consideration.

We just finished having a garage sale this weekend. We sold a bunch of vintage furniture and household goods. It is amazing just how flimsy and crappy so much of our modern household stuff is compared to the solid wood and metal that was used 50+ years ago. The fact that this stuff is still serviceable and desirable 50+ years later is a testament to its quality and craftsmanship in ways that plastic, formica'd fiberboard, and flimsy stampings never can duplicate...

Wish it would happen that way but I doubt it, we are a throw away society and people will buy what is cheapest. Not saying everyone is, I would rather buy a Stihl or old Gravely or anything that has better build quality any day, but 99.99 percent won't.

 

[Lakeside53]

Wish it would happen that way but I doubt it, we are a throw away society and people will buy what is cheapest. Not saying everyone is, I would rather buy a Stihl or old Gravely or anything that has better build quality any day, but 99.99 percent won't.

Hmmm.... That woud mean Stihl has LESS than 0.01% share of the OPE market ....


NOT!

Of course, Space will argue that only 0.01% of the population will buy OPE anyhow, and they are "special"

 

[clearance]

Here's another site with some similar views... but no chainsaws...

Some very good posts...

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=30591

Yes it is an interesting site, thank you.

 

[A. Stanton]

I always believed that the 3rd-world nations would bring us to their levels, instead of the other way around. We are beginning to drive scooters; they are not buying Cadillacs.

 

[kingston]

This greed thing that is the driving force behind what's now made Vice-Grips the latest in a continuing stream of businesses abandoning U.S. manufacturing plants is having a profound effect on the nature of the U.S. economy, and it's really terrifying.

Fifty years ago, even twenty years ago, our economy was based to a large extent on our ability to manufacture things for sale. Today, Wall Street and laws put in place by the s--theads in Washington provide huge financial rewards to the greedy executives who make these decisions to move overseas, thereby robbing Americans of their jobs. Private investors get rich because the stock prices go up because the product costs go down, and they don't give a rat's you know what about the consequences to the American workforce, as long as their wallets are getting stuffed.

And so, we had a manufacturing-based economy, and we've now transitioned to a largely finance based economy. The frightening part of this is that manufacturing provides stability (even if the economies of some of the countries we sell to become weak, others are still strong, and even if we have to sell our manufactured products for less, we still have something to sell), but a finance-based economy is a house of cards in comparison. It has no supporting structure. If the stock markets fall, we have no stable backing to help weather the storm.

Hold on tight, boys. Put some money in the bank and figure out what you're going to do if the house of cards collapses.

The alternative is for the U.S. to reinvest, innovate, and retake a leadership position. Problem is, it ain't gonna' happen with the laws in place. Fingers crossed for better days ahead, once we get rid of the moron!

And oh, by the way, would spend $18 on the U.S. tool over the $14 Chinese tool every time. Won't set foot in a Harbor Freight, won't even look at their ads. Etc.

These are some very interesting points. I am no professional economist, but I think that you are on to something.