No BS: Real-life encounters bear vs. saw

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2Coilinveins said:
Jeez John, I've heard some 4 wheelers have cojones, but that's ridiculous.

Ya, those were Spruce burls and they kept rolling around and slamming me in the back when I was riding.
Anyway, here's a sow and twin cubs I happened upon. Note how are the tree have been stripped by the bear, possibly marking territory. She was feeding at a buffalo kill near Liard River close to the Yukon border.
Twins rarely survive. One usually gets eaten by a rogue male before the seasons out.
The pictures not that clear because of limited light and a 200 yard shot.
John

grizztwins.jpg
 
dano said:
Shot placement to stop a human being is important enough. Shot placement to stop a charging full grown bear is imperative.

How many of us could say that if attacked by a bear while caught off-guard, we could draw and accurately place a round where it had to be. I would think that the chances would be slim....at best.

I would never assume that any firearm, regardless of caliber, would drop a large animal "in it's tracks." Too much room for human error.


YOU, sir, have obviously been learning about such things from someplace other than Hollywood! Shame on you!


;)
 
John, great pictures!
Have any of you seen a 45-70 pistol? Might do the job but I don't think I want to be the one to shoot it...not with my reloads anyway. How about this new "exploding" amo? They don't have any explosives in them but they are suposed to transfer 100% of their energy in 5-7". Suposed to be an anti-terror round or something like that. I will not ever have to worry about bears down here but methed up stupids, that's another thing.
Clint
 
BlueRidgeMark said:
YOU, sir, have obviously been learning about such things from someplace other than Hollywood! Shame on you!


;)



I've always liked the movies that have a speeding car(s) in them, that get shot at by good guys / bad guys (take your pick), and when hit, the car(s) instantly explodes into a fireball. :laugh:
 
Clint Allison said:
John, great pictures!
Have any of you seen a 45-70 pistol?


Do you mean like this?


BFR_Long-Cyl_t.jpg



Clint Allison said:
... I don't think I want to be the one to shoot it...

Oh, it's no big deal, unless you think it's macho to hold tight and stiff and CONTROL that recoil. Let it ride and even a skinny guy like me can shoot those things with no problem.

Somewhere floating around the Web there's a video of a couple of cute girls firing the BFR in .45-70, S&W .500, and a few other popguns.


I once ran through 100 rounds of .308 fired out of a bolt action pistol, in a single session. Lots of fun! :D


Don't ask me to do that with a rifle in the same caliber!
 
A long time ago, my wife and I were camping on some timberland we own in northern Minnesota. It was spring. The land is about one mile from the road and very remote. We set up the tent about 50 feet from the truck and unpacked. We had our dog with us, a little mixed breed terrier named Robert. After dark the dog had been wandering around in the woods, but came tearing back and jumped into the tent. Robert would not come out of the tent, like he had seen a ghost. We did not think much about it, and eventually turned in for the night. We had a trusty old 30-30 Marlin in the tent loaded in the unzipped case.



About 6:00 am we awoke to the dog whining. Wife thought the dog needed to go out and got ready to unzip the tent to let him out. She noticed there was a large black bear about 5 feet from the tent chewing on the only thing we left out of the truck, a bar of ivory soap. The soap had been next to the fire pit and the fire was still smoking pretty well. She whispered that there was a bear just outside, I grabbed the rifle and creeped to the door to see if the bear needed to be shot.



He started walking away up a hill with the dog whining and freaking out in the tent. I watched the bear continue walking away and thought, I guess he will not need shooting this morning after all.



At about 30 feet, I think the dog noise got the best of him, he turned around and started eyeballing the tent (with two naked people and a small loud dog in it) I think he was seeing a delicious little hot dog!



At that point I was starting to think, wait a minute, he may need shooting. In a second, he lowered his head and began a low deep growl. I hollered at him so he would understand that there was more than one little loud dog in the tent. That seemed to be all he could take. He roared and started towards the tent wide open.



I knew he would need shooting at that point. I understand that most bears may do some false charge or stop short or rush past without any problem, this actually passed thru my mind, but I was laying naked in a tent with a loaded cocked gun pointing at him. He would be on us in an instant. I decided that if there was ever a good time to shoot him it was then. I blasted him the first time at about 20 feet from the tent. He went down, but he was not anywhere near dead. Since I shot up at him head-on from a prone position as he ran down the hill, I believe the shot traveled up thru his guts and disconnected his spine somewhere behind his front legs. At that point he really started roaring and flopping around, doing his best to swim towards the tent. I was doing my best to blast him more. I ended up stopping his forward progress, but I needed to reload the gun and shoot him a few more times before the last quiver was out of him. He finally died about 3 feet from the tent door. It was a shame since he probably never meant any harm and would have just rushed past or stopped on his own. (or not)



Minnesota is a state that allows someone to shoot a bear that is about to attack them. (as if it would have mattered) The bear never got quite close enough to bite or maul us, so I felt no need need to involve any game warden types. We got dressed and crawled out to look the scene over. The bear was in miserable shape, full of ticks and coated with mosquitoes. It was obvious that he had just woken up from his long winter nap. He was bigger than me and it was tough to drag him out of the trail and into the woods. There is no built in handle to drag a stinky bloody flea bit bear with. I believe he weighed more than 350lbs.

I realized that a 30-30 is a pretty poor gun to stop a bear with and you better plan on hitting him good enough the first time to allow yourself to shoot him some more. I do not know what kind of handgun would be able to do the deed, but we started bringing the .444 Marlin with 265 grain softpoint handloads along and the dog stayed home.

Robert was later killed while playing in traffic, the dog was always trouble, but still a good dog.

I wanted to pass this story along for those people who think there is no good reason to have a gun, maybe you may accidentally or unintentally shoot something that shouldn't be shot, but there are places and times in this world where stuff needs shooting. I was quite glad to be able to make the choice that morning.



I believe the first shot was enough to kill him. I was trying to do more than just kill him, I wanted to stop his forward progress also.

I had enough time as he charged to pick a spot and commit for the first shot. After he was down, roaring and flailing very close to the tent, many of the next shots were less aimed and more pointed. He was very mad and in no mood to hold still for that clean head shot that he needed.

I believe that the gun had five rounds in it when I pulled it out of the case, I keep a box of shells in the case with the gun, so after I fired till empty I needed to take my eyes off him to reload, and only put in about four more rounds. I suppose I shot at him 10 times, but only first shot allowed me to shoot some more. In the frenzy that happened after the first shot I hit him all over and missed a few times. At the time pointing seemed better than aiming. I probably could have shot him a few times less, but I had the gun out, it would need cleaning anyway, and I wanted to be sure he was dead.

In the big picture, this was a small bear, I wonder what you would need to stop forward progress of a large bear, I doubt there is a pistol made that could do the deed.

The gun I keep around now is a Marlin .444. this might not do the job either if not for a well placed early shot.
 
kenabcd
It seem that the closer housing developments get to the bears and the more human contact they get, the more they dont seem to think that we are a threat. I'm from Minn. and proud that the laws havent effected the possability of protecting your self. Anthropomorphism is on the rise here in Colodado, and another westeren state that starts with a "C" , be on the watch there also and fight them as they start!
Nice story! even had the naked people in a tent part!
 
John, I know what you mean about them Falkland bears LOL. I was raised not far from there, Armstrong, and have seen my share of them. I tried carrying a 12 ga defender when stream fishing in bear country but found it was more trouble than it was worth. The gun kept getting caught in brush and I finally figured that by the time I got it off my shoulder and the safety off, I would be halfway to the bear's downspout and it would be too dark to shoot.
A large bore handgun looks macho and sounds impressive but let's be realistic. How many of you have actually taken a bear down with one? It will buck so bad that it won't be of much use beyond 25 yards and a mad bear will cover that in less time than a wide receiver.
I had one close encounter with a bear but it was more interested in the fish that I had for shore lunch. I dropped my rod and exited the scene. Got the rod later and drove back to town for a hamburger.
 
What happened was the dog knew the bear ate soap and was talking smack.
Dog whimper loses translation in bear and comes out "Your ma'ma is a rug." Although had the bear known he said "You use that on the outside dumba$$" you'd have probably had the same result.

I would consider dog a step up the cuisine chart from Ivory soap to be honest. Maybe there was a little "Man I gotta get this taste out of my mouth" going on also?

Nice shot btw, glad you made it. The 30-30 actually became a favorite deer gun in brushy areas. Your high speed 30.06 will go anywhere if it hits a twig. The slower 150 round hits with a decidedly heavier blow. You can hit a deer anywhere and knock it off its feet. My choice after much deliberation would be a sawed off 12ga 9 round semi automatic shotgun using what we yinzers call "punkin-ball". My buddy has one and there's an art to leaning forward and how fast you squeeze the trigger. We went out to Pittsburgh gun club and I was knocking over their target holders with buck-shot at 30 yards. I kick off 9 shots in 2.25 seconds.

I think one truth you will find is that if you injure the bear you will have to kill it. The bear is in the wild and injury usually leads to death. That bear knows all too well it's going to need an easy food source for a while and you right now is as close as it's ever going to get to it. Hence the ummm... sense of urgency on the bears part.

But you most definately did what needed done. A bear out of hybernation is the most dangerous thing I can think of in the woods, maybe anywhere. That bar of soap and smoke may have saved your life by the way. It probably overwhelmed his olfactory system just coming out of hybernation and all. Masked your delicious scent in the tent.
 
kenabcd said:
He went down, but he was not anywhere near dead. Since I shot up at him head-on from a prone position as he ran down the hill, I believe the shot traveled up thru his guts and disconnected his spine somewhere behind his front legs. ..... I ended up stopping his forward progress, but I needed to reload

I believe the first shot was enough to kill him. I was trying to do more than just kill him, I wanted to stop his forward progress also.



.... I suppose I shot at him 10 times, but only first shot allowed me to shoot some more.


The gun I keep around now is a Marlin .444. this might not do the job either if not for a well placed early shot.


And THAT sums it up pretty nicely. If you are shooting from a stand, or other concealed position at a bear that is just ambling along, a .22 is, in theory, enough gun. A .357 might be realistically adequate. A. 44 mag certainly is - no problem.

A charging bear is a different story. Your first shot might not be from a nice prone postion and you might not have time to aim well.
 
I think with regard to understanding the way of bears it's important to pay attention to the findings of Northern explorers when North America was largely untouched. Explorers such as J.W. Tyrrell, Samuel Hearne, Fredrick Schwatka and mostly the Natives and the Eskimos, not Daniel Boone or Davy Crockett! :blob2:
Anyway, here's what J.W. Tyrrel says of the Polar Bear in 1885 in his book,"Across the Sub- Arctics of Canada."

"The Polar is admittedly the monarch of the north. He is the bear of bears, being described by all Arctic travellers as possessing enormous strength and great voracity. Of the scores of polars whose more or less intimate acquaintance I have had occasion to make, I have seen at least two whose tracks in the snow measured fifteen by eighteen inches, whose length measured over nine feet, and whose slain carcases tipped the steelyard at from fifteen to sixteen hundred pounds.
Consequently I have always had great respect for the sentiments expressed in the following lines by an author whose name I regret being able to recall:

"Of the black bear you need not be afraid,
But killing white ones is a dangerous trade.
In this be cool,and well direct your lead,
And take your aim at either heart or head;
For struck elsewhere, your piece not level'd true,
Not long to live your erring hand to rue."

J.W. Tyrrel describes several very interesting accounts of polar bear hunting in his book I mentioned above.
John
 
Sorry fella's but I shot a mature grizzly with a 338 mag and was no challenge. I watched my friend shoot a Kodiak with a 300 Weatherby that was by far an uneventful hunt also. I guess that's why anyone with a scoped rifle or handgun for that matter has no reason not to anchor any game with one shot. I've shot my share of game all over but as a look back it was all hype about shooting the big bears.

Ben did you get in touch with Jerry?? I bet you know what I mean when you have a rifle that's on, nothing is a challenge. I guess that's why I only hunt with a bow today. My trap line spans close to 300 miles now. OH YEAH
 
Marky Mark said:
Sorry fella's but I shot a mature grizzly with a 338 mag and was no challenge. I watched my friend shoot a Kodiak with a 300 Weatherby that was by far an uneventful hunt also. I guess that's why anyone with a scoped rifle or handgun for that matter has no reason not to anchor any game with one shot. I've shot my share of game all over but as a look back it was all hype about shooting the big bears.


Hunting while fully prepared to do so, is much different than being unprepared and having to defend your life against a wild animal.

Any reasonable person, while in the wilderness, should assume that they are at a distinct disadvantage, when it comes to safety. Being aware of your surroundings and having the proper equipment will help, but it's not an iron-clad guarantee.

Any bear, regardless of size, gets my full attention and respect. Afterall, I'm in their domain. Keeping that in mind, just may do more for you in the longrun, than a firearm would.
 
I recall in the 70's when I used to hunt the big bears on the West Coast.
One morning I rolled out of my bunk as the rays of the rising sun filled my cabin thru the east window and when I was dressed i went to the front door and threw it opened for a good breath of fine salt air. My cabin stood on an island near the mainland in Glacier Bay. There were many salmon streams nearby and consequently a great number of salmon catching bears. As I stood in my door filling my lungs with the morning air, I noticed a monster bear, probably 14 feet long from tip to tip, approaching my cabin following the trail I used leading from the cabin to a lake where I always caught my fish for breakfast.
The bear was an elephant in size and was coming straight towards me. I reached around the door and took down my trusty buffalo gun which I had carried with me on the Plains and the Cassiar mining camps, examined it to see if it was ready for action and waited till the bear approached nearer so I would not have to carry his hide so far.
About fifty yards from the cabin the trail crossed a little rise of ground and when the bear reached that point he evidently saw the cabin for the first time. The bear's eyesight is not that sharp and this one showed his surprise at seeing the cabin and me standing in the doorway by stopping, raising his head, and opening his mouth.
Just at that moment I rested my gun against the left door jamb and fired. The bullet struck the bear along the top of his tongue and went thru him just below his backbone.
That bear was so quick at turning around that when the bullet had exited beneath his tail the bullet struck the door jamb within inches of my face.
I've always been thankful that the bear was just a fraction of a second slow in turning or else the bullet would have hit me in the eye for sure.
John
 
Ben did you get in touch with Jerry?? I bet you know what I mean when you have a rifle that's on, nothing is a challenge. I guess that's why I only hunt with a bow
Yes, he should have my new rig done in a few weeks. The first gun he built me is so accurate its scary.
 

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