Northern Splitter Upgrade Question - Any splitter experts out there??

[darren_nh]

I have a northern 20 ton splitter with a 4" cylinder and 1.3" ram shaft with 25" of travel. According to the book, the cycle time is 14 seconds. It hase the tank in the axle and holds 3.5 gallons. The pump is an 11gpm haldex and the engine is a 5hp Tecumseh.

I am buying an 8hp honda GX240 (off a snowblower) and a 16gpm pump from northern to try to speed the cycle time. According to:

http://www.baumhydraulics.com/calculators/cyl_speed.htm

I can expect just under 10 seconds with the upgrade. I understand I will need mew couplings and bracket.

How do I know if the hydraulic oil will get too hot or if the new pump will be starved? I can add an aux. tank, but would rather not.

Thanks.

 

[leon]

log splitter

I have a northern 20 ton splitter with a 4" cylinder and 1.3" shaft with 25" of travel. According to the book, the cycle time is 14 seconds. It hase the tank in the axle and holds 3.5 gallons. The pump is an 11gpm haldex and the engine is a 5hp Tecumseh.

I am buying an 8hp honda GX240 (off a snowblower) and a 16gpm pump from northern to try to speed the cycle time. According to:

http://www.baumhydraulics.com/calculators/cyl_speed.htm

I can expect just under 10 seconds with the upgrade. I understand I will need mew couplings and bracket.

How do I know if the hydraulic oil will get too hot or if the new pump will be starved? I can add an aux. tank, but would rather not.

Thanks.

OK if you have not bought the motor and other junk yet, dont!


This is your typical water glass half full or empty situation which

is easily solved with a new cylinder rather than new power etc.


It is simply solved with the purchase of a "new cylinder with a

larger cylinder rod diameter and identical mounting

brackets/weldments which is easier to do

than all the modifications etc".


A cylinder with a larger rod diameter will have a faster cycle time

as less oil will be needed to move the rod and piston. You will not

require a new tank, pump etc.


A cylinder with a larger rod diameter will allow more oil in the tank

to aid cooling-but you may need to drain some oil out just in

case-check with a local hydraulic repair shop and they will help

you.


Buy a new cylinder with a larger rod diameter and a stop tube

(being one inch of stop tube per foot of length- the stop tube

goes between the cylinder rod and the stuffing box inside the

barrel).


Buy a cylinder with the same size plumbing and fittings and the

identical mounting set up(meaning rod end and barrel end and

pins and save the old cylinder, store it full of oil with the pipe

plugs in the barrel to seal it from rusting.


It is an easy fix if you go to the local hydraulics repair shop and

do it right with the right parts and most likely spend less money

on a new cylinder set up otherwise you will suffer with the

consequences.

leon

 

[darren_nh]

Does increasing the rod diameter reduce the force of the ram? I don't want to lose any power. I will have to check the diamensions of the exisitng cylinder to see if a direct replacement is available.

PS: You are taking all the fun out of my winter project.

I just ran some numbers in the calculator link above, and it still doesn't look like the cycle times with a larger rod can complete with more HP and a larger pump. For example, with a 4" cylinder and 1" rod at 11GPM yields 14 sec, with 2" rod 12sec +/-, with 16GPM under 10 sec.

 

[leon]

log splitter

Does increasing the rod diameter reduce the force of the ram? I don't want to lose any power. I will have to check the diamensions of the exisitng cylinder to see if a direct replacement is available.

PS: You are taking all the fun out of my winter project.

The hotter the hydraulic oil gets the more usefull pressure it will exert.

If you send a pictue of your cylinder I can help more, if you have the room you can use a cylinder that has the barrel mount forward and attached to the pusher block and you will have so much more pressure to use with fewer problems.

You will not lose power and direct replacements are available. You can either buy one from the manufacturer directly or through a hydraulic repair shop-which would be better in relation to warranty coverage.

Another option is a small telescoping cylinder will do the job very well too.


A stop tube is a must simply because it will reduce flexing(side to side pressure) against the stuffing box and premature seal failure in any case.


I dont want you throwing darts at a dart board with the lights off and the door closed either as so many of my freinds do in the mining community.

 

[darren_nh]

As a side note, I was also looking to upgrade the engine to reduce the volume, as the tecumseh engines are really loud and the recoil cover is hammered from logs falling on it.

I have not bought anything yet.

 

[David Wayne]

A larger rod dia. will not decrease power or increase speed while extending the ram. It will however decrease the retract power & increase retract speed.

 

[Mike Van]

Hey Darrin, Not to try to tell you how to spend your $$$$$$$ - But boy, thats a lotta moola to save 4 seconds? Yes/ No? If you're in the wood business where time is money & you've got orders backed up the kazoo, maybe it pays off. Just a thought -

 

[darren_nh]

Hey Darrin, Not to try to tell you how to spend your $$$$$$$ - But boy, thats a lotta moola to save 4 seconds? Yes/ No? If you're in the wood business where time is money & you've got orders backed up the kazoo, maybe it pays off. Just a thought -

Yes and no. I don't know how many hours a tecumseh engine lasts, but a new flywheel cover is between $25 and $70, and I am the second owner. I have had it for about 9 years and it has probably split over 80 full cord so far. The thing is very loud (as I mentioned) and the misses isn't too keen on the children being outside when I am running it.

You are right 4 seconds isn't much inprovement. I wouldn't even be considering it if I had to pay retail for a new honda engine. I have priced out all the parts, and I figure the upgrade will be just under $500.

 

[leon]

Yes and no. I don't know how many hours a tecumseh engine lasts, but a new flywheel cover is between $25 and $70, and I am the second owner. I have had it for about 9 years and it has probably split over 80 full cord so far. The thing is very loud (as I mentioned) and the misses isn't too keen on the children being outside when I am running it.

You are right 4 seconds isn't much inprovement. I wouldn't even be considering it if I had to pay retail for a new honda engine. I have priced out all the parts, and I figure the upgrade will be just under $500.

The blower cover contributes a huge amount to the noise level from scraping and most likely their muffler is shot. an easy low noise fix it purchase some exhaust flx hose the diameter of the new muffler and buy a long enough length to stick it in a deep metal bucket of water-the water will boil away and get dirty from the carbon as the bucket is acting exactly like an exhaust gas water scrubber on an underground mining scoop looks ugly but it works very well.

If you really want speed buy a cylinder with the correct mountings to allow installation barrel end first-faster speed splitting slower retracting.

A double acting telescoping cylinder will do the same thing as well as I mentioned previously.

 

[leon]

log splitter

A larger rod dia. will not decrease power or increase speed while extending the ram. It will however decrease the retract power & increase retract speed.

The fluid power pressure and volume delivered by the pump is the same all the time, the backpressure created by the resistance of the firewood being split is what creates the usable available pressure against the valve spool
and piston of the cylinder.

The smaller area of the piston surface on the rod side of the cylinder allows more pressure to build up against a smaller surface area and hence more speed as there is less surface area is smaller to push against.

If you had a cylinder with a stationary barrel and a common differential rod coming out of both end with a large rod diameter and a piston in the middle it would be very fast period, almost to fast to safely split wood.

 

[darren_nh]

The blower cover contributes a huge amount to the noise level from scraping and most likely their muffler is shot. an easy low noise fix it purchase some exhaust flx hose the diameter of the new muffler and buy a long enough length to stick it in a deep metal bucket of water-the water will boil away and get dirty from the carbon as the bucket is acting exactly like an exhaust gas water scrubber on an underground mining scoop looks ugly but it works very well.

If you really want speed buy a cylinder with the correct mountings to allow installation barrel end first-faster speed splitting slower retracting.

A double acting telescoping cylinder will do the same thing as well as I mentioned previously.

I replaced the muffler about 3-4 years ago, it did nothing for the volume. I like the water muffler idea.