starting a MS361

[SawTroll]

I dare to admit....

.....that for cold starts, I use the decomp valve on the 361.

I suspect the culprit is the Elasto-start handle, that takes some of the "snap" out of the pull.

 

[TreePointer]

I would think that if you had that much vacuum the saw would starve for fuel and run lean or not at all. If you're seeing bubbling fuel, that sounds like fuel under pressure to me, which the tank vent properly causes. I don't think you're ever going to boil the fuel in a 361 tank and get vapor lock. Old saws with a mag tank connected to the crankcase, yes.

I think you have it backwards.

If fuel is under greater pressure, it will boil at a higher temperature. For instance, things boil at higher temps at sea level (under greater atmospheric pressure). Volatile liquid fuels often boil at ambient temperature when the pressure above the fuel is only moderately reduced.

When cold there is no great underpressure/vacuum in the fuel tank, and therefore the saw is an easy start. As the fuel is consumed, a nonfunctional valve will not allow for outside air to replace the volume that previously had been taken up by the liquid fuel mix. A poorly functioning valve may allow for air replacement, but not at a fast enough rate to alleviate the underpressure/vacuum by the time the operator attempts to restart the saw.

I've boiled fuel in my 361 three times since March, and I haven't done it since replacing the breather valve. Yes, I use good 93 oct fuel, Stihl Super or Ultra at 50:1, saw and filter is clean, b&c oil well. Even when it didn't boil, I got a much greater sucking sound than any other saw I've used when opening the fuel cap. There was indeed an underpressure/vacuum in the tank.

I could be all wrong (been there before ) but what has solved my problem is cracking open the fuel cap for a moment before starting the saw after its first use. That combined with the more sudden pulls on the string has essentially made my problem disappear.

 

[LHJim]

Yes...hard to believe I am having this starting problem. At one time I thought I had the procedure nailed down. Then I see many folks have had this problem and especially with the MS361. Even Tom says that these saws can be stingy to try to start. Maybe I just got a bad mood saw Anyway...I will keep starting this saw in the evening but yesterday evening was the first time I tried starting without the decomp and it seem to be EASY to feel it fire up! (see my last post). So I will try starting a few times in the evening without the decomp and see if this is a easier predictive method for me. For what its worth...it seem the decomp when not being used helps me to notice the saw fire up.

I saw ole Tom start it but of course he does this for a living so it could be that he has his hands on too many saws to NOT be able to start saws. Could it be that Tom was able to negate some faulty issue because he knows how ot start the saw? I doubt it and I think he would have detected the first anomaly if he noticed anything unusual.

I think with repeat attempts I will get the hand of this saw. One other person brought up that he had difficulty starting his saw after running for awhile. Heck...here is another set of problems I am likely to encounter but that is okay...need to know how to solve the before starting problem (flooding) and the after has been run problem (starting a saw that has cooled down).

I am anxious to try to start this saw again without using the decomp and see what it feels like...see if it felt the same as yesterday evening.

Hard to believe you are stihl having trouble starting this saw. Bring that fat pig back to your dealer and have him give it the once over. I suspect somthings none too kosher with the carb. You can toggle a depressed decomp valve back out with just about any flat object but your fingernail. A scrench, quarter, screwdriver, Popsicle stick etc will work fine. It actually moves very easily but I don’t think the decomp valve is your problem.
You can start a flooded saw in the field but it is a little bit dangerous. You need to figure out a way to hold the throttle/trigger open while cranking the saw with the stihl smart switch in the run position. If you are spry, you can get a foot through the rear handle, a knee on the top cover or front handle, one hand on the trigger and the other hand on the starter rope. While holding the trigger wide open, crank the saw. It will eventually start and sputter and smoke like it is on fire, keep the trigger depressed until in clears out and runs normally.
Most modern stihl saws are very stingy with their oilers. Set your oiler to max, make sure you are running a stihl “oilomatic” chain and make sure that you keep both the bar groove and the bar oil holes clear of debris. Stihl saws don’t fling oil like other saws, they just kinda lube the lower drive links. No matter how much paint burns off the bar, as the bar is not glowing bright red, the oiler is working normally. Good Luck with your saw.

 

[CentaurG2]

Dude, no offense but anything that is not working for you and/or your particular situation is not worth owning regardless of how many people on the internet or otherwise tote the item as the best thing since sliced toast.

Give your dealer another chance and let him check out the saw. Insist that he/she show you how to cold start the saw and how to properly clear a flood if the saw fails to start. Have them crank that pig 20x times on full choke with the decomp in and then start the saw. If they can’t perform, dog bag that puppy and get yourself a Makita dcs-6401 or a husky 372xp.

The Makita is about 100x as heavy as the ms361 but it will start no matter what you do to it and run circles around the offending stihl. The husky 372 is in a totally different league. I own 7 of these saw in some form or another and have NEVER once had a situation where I could not start the saw when I wanted to or needed to. Again, good luck with your new saw choice.

 

[THALL10326]

Dude, no offense but anything that is not working for you and/or your particular situation is not worth owning regardless of how many people on the internet or otherwise tote the item as the best thing since sliced toast.

Give your dealer another chance and let him check out the saw. Insist that he/she show you how to cold start the saw and how to properly clear a flood if the saw fails to start. Have them crank that pig 20x times on full choke with the decomp in and then start the saw. If they can’t perform, dog bag that puppy and get yourself a Makita dcs-6401 or a husky 372xp.

The Makita is about 100x as heavy as the ms361 but it will start no matter what you do to it and run circles around the offending stihl. The husky 372 is in a totally different league. I own 7 of these saw in some form or another and have NEVER once had a situation where I could not start the saw when I wanted to or needed to. Again, good luck with your new saw choice.

"You can start a flooded saw in the field but it is a little bit dangerous. You need to figure out a way to hold the throttle/trigger open while cranking the saw with the stihl smart switch in the run position. If you are spry, you can get a foot through the rear handle, a knee on the top cover or front handle, one hand on the trigger and the other hand on the starter rope. While holding the trigger wide open, crank the saw. It will eventually start and sputter and smoke like it is on fire, keep the trigger depressed until in clears out and runs normally.

Those are all your words. So tell me who's flooded saw was you using that method on,LOLOL

Whats the ole saying, give a man enough rope and he will hang himself.

 

[THALL10326]

Dude, no offense but anything that is not working for you and/or your particular situation is not worth owning regardless of how many people on the internet or otherwise tote the item as the best thing since sliced toast.

Give your dealer another chance and let him check out the saw. Insist that he/she show you how to cold start the saw and how to properly clear a flood if the saw fails to start. Have them crank that pig 20x times on full choke with the decomp in and then start the saw. If they can’t perform, dog bag that puppy and get yourself a Makita dcs-6401 or a husky 372xp.
The Makita is about 100x as heavy as the ms361 but it will start no matter what you do to it and run circles around the offending stihl. The husky 372 is in a totally different league. I own 7 of these saw in some form or another and have NEVER once had a situation where I could not start the saw when I wanted to or needed to. Again, good luck with your new saw choice.

Rightttttttttttttttt. Gonna have to start wearing hip boots when reading your posts,LOLOLOL

 

[CentaurG2]

Easy their tigger. Don’t get that doo lick all in a knot. Elvis aint left the building…yet.

When you run a multiple tree crew, with each fellow not knowing (or caring) what the other has done, flooding a saw becomes common place. Of the stihls in my fleet, the ms200 seems less prone to flooding than the ms440. The ms361 has been a real bear. That saw is so bad (yea I have tweaked it nine ways till Sunday) that I have actually stopped carrying this saw on my trucks for this exact reason. Too many floods=too much profit lost. Yup, 100% of my problems is due to operator error but we dumb folk up north is stupid simple people. No reason to try and fight fate, just work with what you got and learn to live with it. Simple solution was the dolmar 5100 and a 346xp. Problem solved, no flooding, sweat, tears but more profit.

The original posters asked a question about a decomp valve and how to un-flood this saw in the field. I replied to his questions. As you advised, he should completely ignore my post as 100% Yankee bulls**t. Sithl we dumb a$$ Yankees think that something that cost you $600+ clams should not be that hard to start or not go when you want it too. The saw is stihl under warante. A simple carb adjustment or carb replacement should solve the issue. If it don’t, then this is not the saw for this fellow given the underling circumstance. Again, why fight fate and risk the dreaded “Ohio cold seizure”?? Does our beloved Stihl still offer the 7 day money back guarantee if not completely satisfied with their product??

I have no love affair with the ms361. It is just a tool that makes me money. You can crank my 361 200+ times on full choke, twiddle with the stihl smart switch all you want, and toggle the decomp switch in and out to your fingers bleed. I guarantee you, when you hand me that saw back, I will start that saw. My word is my bond. What is your word worth??

 

[THALL10326]

Easy their tigger. Don’t get that doo lick all in a knot. Elvis aint left the building…yet.

When you run a multiple tree crew, with each fellow not knowing (or caring) what the other has done, flooding a saw becomes common place. Of the stihls in my fleet, the ms200 seems less prone to flooding than the ms440. The ms361 has been a real bear. That saw is so bad (yea I have tweaked it nine ways till Sunday) that I have actually stopped carrying this saw on my trucks for this exact reason. Too many floods=too much profit lost. Yup, 100% of my problems is due to operator error but we dumb folk up north is stupid simple people. No reason to try and fight fate, just work with what you got and learn to live with it. Simple solution was the dolmar 5100 and a 346xp. Problem solved, no flooding, sweat, tears but more profit.

The original posters asked a question about a decomp valve and how to un-flood this saw in the field. I replied to his questions. As you advised, he should completely ignore my post as 100% Yankee bulls**t. Sithl we dumb a$$ Yankees think that something that cost you $600+ clams should not be that hard to start or not go when you want it too. The saw is stihl under warante. A simple carb adjustment or carb replacement should solve the issue. If it don’t, then this is not the saw for this fellow given the underling circumstance. Again, why fight fate and risk the dreaded “Ohio cold seizure”?? Does our beloved Stihl still offer the 7 day money back guarantee if not completely satisfied with their product??

I have no love affair with the ms361. It is just a tool that makes me money. You can crank my 361 200+ times on full choke, twiddle with the stihl smart switch all you want, and toggle the decomp switch in and out to your fingers bleed. I guarantee you, when you hand me that saw back, I will start that saw. My word is my bond. What is your word worth??

Well first off the saw he has was sold to him by me. Secondly it started fine by me as have 100's of other 361's I have sent out the door. Now I ask you if it started perfectly in my hand and idled perfect and reved up perfect why adjust the carb? Now you say your running many crews, you know your saws so tell me why it starts with me and not Jim? Any ideas?

What is my word worth, you should read this entire thread and you will see I have offered to help Jim anyway I can, he is deaf, he can't hear the saw pop. That makes it harder for him. You calling his new saw a fat pig and bragging about your Makita and Husky doesn't help Jim one bit now does it. Now what is BS like that, cuse me, your word worth?

 

[THALL10326]

Easy their tigger. Don’t get that doo lick all in a knot. Elvis aint left the building…yet.

When you run a multiple tree crew, with each fellow not knowing (or caring) what the other has done, flooding a saw becomes common place. Of the stihls in my fleet, the ms200 seems less prone to flooding than the ms440. The ms361 has been a real bear. That saw is so bad (yea I have tweaked it nine ways till Sunday) that I have actually stopped carrying this saw on my trucks for this exact reason. Too many floods=too much profit lost. Yup, 100% of my problems is due to operator error but we dumb folk up north is stupid simple people. No reason to try and fight fate, just work with what you got and learn to live with it. Simple solution was the dolmar 5100 and a 346xp. Problem solved, no flooding, sweat, tears but more profit.

The original posters asked a question about a decomp valve and how to un-flood this saw in the field. I replied to his questions. As you advised, he should completely ignore my post as 100% Yankee bulls**t. Sithl we dumb a$$ Yankees think that something that cost you $600+ clams should not be that hard to start or not go when you want it too. The saw is stihl under warante. A simple carb adjustment or carb replacement should solve the issue. If it don’t, then this is not the saw for this fellow given the underling circumstance. Again, why fight fate and risk the dreaded “Ohio cold seizure”?? Does our beloved Stihl still offer the 7 day money back guarantee if not completely satisfied with their product??

I have no love affair with the ms361. It is just a tool that makes me money. You can crank my 361 200+ times on full choke, twiddle with the stihl smart switch all you want, and toggle the decomp switch in and out to your fingers bleed. I guarantee you, when you hand me that saw back, I will start that saw. My word is my bond. What is your word worth??

LOLOL, 200 times on full choke, would there be any fuel left in the tank after 200 pulls on full choke, man stick to running the crews. I give you credit for one thing when you talk trash you do it bigtime, 200 pulls on full choke, thats the best one I've heard in a longgggggggggggggggggggg time,LOL

 

[tanked]

LHjim I have the ms361 also Its now almost two years old and starts great.... but in the beginning it wasnt so easy.. First I have to say dont use the decomp or it will be harder to start(warm weather, cold weather, cold saw, or hot saw) dont use it!!! As for how I started mine when it was a pain, I would put it full choke and drop start it(no log rest, hold saw with left hand by the grab bar and right hand pulling the rope) pull tell you could feel it try to start or hear it, you have to pull hard and fast or it would flood my saw. then take the choke off and hold the throttle wide open with your right hand and pull the rope with your left. just about three pulls it will ripp roar. when I did flood it I would fully open the throttle with my right hand and pull it over 10-15 times with the ignition turned off then turn the ignition back on and with no choke pull full throttle and crank it a few times it will fire. I know there are some of you say no way but I have been doing this for years on dirt bikes all the way to harley davidsons and it works.... try it some time. good luck

 

[Jtheo]

I had trouble with my 361 flooding before I learned how to do it.

No decomp. A hard fast pull.

Now it pops on the second pull and I set to run position and off she goes.

But if the man can not hear it pop... That's kinda hard to figure out.

 

[windthrown]

LOLOL, 200 times on full choke, would there be any fuel left in the tank after 200 pulls on full choke, man stick to running the crews. I give you credit for one thing when you talk trash you do it bigtime, 200 pulls on full choke, thats the best one I've heard in a longgggggggggggggggggggg time, LOL

Hey Tommy, send that NE Yankee there a big old wheelbarrow to haul his ballacks around in will you? They must be as big as bowling balls, and see, he is getting crankey from all the extra work.

Me oh my... I never had such trouble with a 361. The 1123 line, they tend to pool when they get hot. Then they are hard to start. My old Macs, man they were tempramental beasts. But the 361s? Cold starting, 3, maybe 4 pulls on full choke with no decomp, rumble, flip lever up one, pull once or twice, then off they go. Hot starting, one pull. I dunno how many times I have started my pair of 361s. A few thousand times? I can remember them flooding about three times total. Only one time was it an issue, and I had to let it set for 5 minutes. So forking what. I have a tree service myself, and I always carry one or a pair of 361s with me.

All this talk about crappy saws for being hard starting. Man, try an old Mac 380. Now that saw's a bear to start. Or my dad's larger Homelite. Might take 20 pulls on that thing. Never had to pull on a saw 200 times myself. At about 50 my arm gives out and I have to switch to the other one. At 100 I would toss the saw in the lake here. Never had to toss a saw in the lake though.

 

[CentaurG2]

Well first off the saw he has was sold to him by me. Secondly it started fine by me as have 100's of other 361's I have sent out the door. Now I ask you if it started perfectly in my hand and idled perfect and reved up perfect why adjust the carb? Now you say your running many crews, you know your saws so tell me why it starts with me and not Jim? Any ideas?

What is my word worth, you should read this entire thread and you will see I have offered to help Jim anyway I can, he is deaf, he can't hear the saw pop. That makes it harder for him. You calling his new saw a fat pig and bragging about your Makita and Husky doesn't help Jim one bit now does it. Now what is BS like that, cuse me, your word worth?

Dude, I aint braggin’ about my makitas or huskys or my stihls and I am trying to help the original poster which was the intent of this whole thread. If you are the dealer that sold him this saw, then I am sure you are going to do what it takes to make this guy happy with his purchase. Again, a simple carb adjustment is probably all that is needed here. Lastly, this is a public forum. If you don’t like my euphimisms for saws just don’t read them. I will get back to you about the ms361 and 200x cranking on full choke. Somehow I don’t think it will drain the tank and I am sure it will stihl start. Your friend up north.

 

[boltonranger]

Dude, I aint braggin’ about my makitas or huskys or my stihls and I am trying to help the original poster which was the intent of this whole thread. If you are the dealer that sold him this saw, then I am sure you are going to do what it takes to make this guy happy with his purchase. Again, a simple carb adjustment is probably all that is needed here. Lastly, this is a public forum. If you don’t like my euphimisms for saws just don’t read them. I will get back to you about the ms361 and 200x cranking on full choke. Somehow I don’t think it will drain the tank and I am sure it will stihl start. Your friend up north.

Centaur if you're really going to try the 200x choke thing - capture it on video.
I'd really like to see it. What do you say?
-br

 

[THALL10326]

Dude, I aint braggin’ about my makitas or huskys or my stihls and I am trying to help the original poster which was the intent of this whole thread. If you are the dealer that sold him this saw, then I am sure you are going to do what it takes to make this guy happy with his purchase. Again, a simple carb adjustment is probably all that is needed here. Lastly, this is a public forum. If you don’t like my euphimisms for saws just don’t read them. I will get back to you about the ms361 and 200x cranking on full choke. Somehow I don’t think it will drain the tank and I am sure it will stihl start. Your friend up north.

Well Centaur if feeding the man a bunch of BS is your way of helping then cuse me, didn't know BS was worth much now days,LOL

Carb adjust you say , as I told ya why did that same exact saw fire up fine with me, ran pefect. Do you think maybe the saw knows who is starting it, the ole I will not start for Jim but I will for Tom type of new fangled saw? I noticed you passed over that one point. The problem is fairly obvious, Jim can't hear the saw pop on choke. Its not his fault and its not the saws fault either. I've asked him many times to bring it in and one way or the other we together will figure out a starting procedure for him where his hearing issue doesn't matter. He'll make it here and when he does the issue will be resolved.

Yes this is a public form and nobody shoots BS anymore than me. However the man doesn't need the fun type of BS when he is having a real problem, he's need a helping hand. This non-sense of "crank my 361 200 times on full choke and hand me that saw and I'll start it is BS. Telling him to tell the dealer to crank it 20 times on full choke and make him unflood it is BS as well. I'd like to have you come in the door and tell me that and I would tell you where to stick the saw in a NY second and send ya packing. BS is fun but when someone truely needs a helping hand show the man some common sense and spare him the BS.

Far as not reading your posts, ha, if you don't wanna get called out on your BS don't put it up for people to read. Finally and foremost if you wanna get into a BS contest I'm game. Now whatcha got to say about that ya dayumm Yankee or should I call you Dude,hehe

 

[THALL10326]

Centaur if you're really going to try the 200x choke thing - capture it on video.
I'd really like to see it. What do you say?
-br

No kidding, me too. Thats enuff BS to cover a 5 acre garden,haha

 

[THALL10326]

Hey Tommy, send that NE Yankee there a big old wheelbarrow to haul his ballacks around in will you? They must be as big as bowling balls, and see, he is getting crankey from all the extra work.

Me oh my... I never had such trouble with a 361. The 1123 line, they tend to pool when they get hot. Then they are hard to start. My old Macs, man they were tempramental beasts. But the 361s? Cold starting, 3, maybe 4 pulls on full choke with no decomp, rumble, flip lever up one, pull once or twice, then off they go. Hot starting, one pull. I dunno how many times I have started my pair of 361s. A few thousand times? I can remember them flooding about three times total. Only one time was it an issue, and I had to let it set for 5 minutes. So forking what. I have a tree service myself, and I always carry one or a pair of 361s with me.

All this talk about crappy saws for being hard starting. Man, try an old Mac 380. Now that saw's a bear to start. Or my dad's larger Homelite. Might take 20 pulls on that thing. Never had to pull on a saw 200 times myself. At about 50 my arm gives out and I have to switch to the other one. At 100 I would toss the saw in the lake here. Never had to toss a saw in the lake though.

More like dumptruck, a big one,LOL

 

[CentaurG2]

Centaur if you're really going to try the 200x choke thing - capture it on video.
I'd really like to see it. What do you say?
-br

Just tried this at lunch and my spindly Yankee arms will never be the same. Yup 200x full choke, decomp valve in. Started spraying fuel out of the decomp by pull 75. It was kinda cool as the fuel was black and all full of carbon. By pull 200, the thing was littery drenched in fuel. Flipped the switch to run, kept the decomp in, depressed the trigger and started pulling. Saw hit on pull 18 and by pull 21 we was driving Miss Daisy again. Not worth a video. I was hoping it would cold seize, drain the fuel tank or explode in a blinding flash of orange and white. Nope, just coughed sputtered and smoked a lot just like a flooded saw. I was disappointed. If I have time, I will put the factory muffler back on the saw and give it another go. Perhaps it will perform better with the cat and plugged up muffler.

 

[windthrown]

Finally and foremost if you wanna get into a BS contest I'm game. Now whatcha got to say about that ya dayumm Yankee or should I call you Dude,hehe

Tommy and me, we been in some big AS scraps. I even got him banned from AS once. Take it from a stubborn old coot; Tommy ain't goin' anywhere, and he ain't backin' off. He is one hell of stand up guy in a face slapping contest. I know, cause my jaw still aches from the last one! opcorn:

 

[windthrown]

Just tried this at lunch and my spindly Yankee arms will never be the same. Yup 200x full choke, decomp valve in. Started spraying fuel out of the decomp by pull 75. It was kinda cool as the fuel was black and all full of carbon. By pull 200, the thing was littery drenched in fuel. Flipped the switch to run, kept the decomp in, depressed the trigger and started pulling. Saw hit on pull 18 and by pull 21 we was driving Miss Daisy again. Not worth a video. I was hoping it would cold seize, drain the fuel tank or explode in a blinding flash of orange and white. Nope, just coughed sputtered and smoked a lot just like a flooded saw. I was disappointed. If I have time, I will put the factory muffler back on the saw and give it another go. Perhaps it will perform better with the cat and plugged up muffler.

You would actually abuse your saws to that extent just to prove a point? I am confused here though. You said that you dumped your 361s becasue they were prone to flooding, but then you say that you can start them, regardless of flooding rivers of gas...

And your fuel was black an full of carbon... Too bad Lakeside is retired. I used that technique on an old Echo CS-3000. Full throttle start when it was flooded. Only thing that worked. But that saw was on its last legs, and not worth a turd.