my First Stihl - 029 saga continues - tank replacement

So...armed with the knowledge this forum was here to provide knowledge much greater than my own, I decided to prepare for the arrival of my replacement tank by completing my dissassembly. I decided to start with what I thought would be the most challenging: getting the bar stud out of the case. Based on the suggestion to borrow a stud remover from the local Autozone, I happily went to my store to borrow one, got home, and promptly decided to try it....

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  Not good! The stud remover gripped at first and then started to slip, and before I knew it I had managed to crush the threads on the stud. Figuring that the damage was done, I kept trying; when that didn't seem to work I tried vice grips. When THAT didn't grip I went out and found one of my smaller pipe wrenches and FINALLY got the stud to move but barely, and only a little at a time. It was not until I had it half way out that I could use the vice grips to turn it.
  
  So what did I do wrong? Was it that the loaner stud remover was just abused? (Perhaps some previous Stihl owner borrowed it unsuccessfully!) Was it just that the stud has been in there for 15 years and was determined not to come out, and they did an ESPECIALLY good job with the locktite? Or maybe it was just the rookie learning curve.... I have to admit that I did ignore the instructions to heat the block with a hair dryer prior to removal.
  
  Hopefully one of the dealers around here will have the stud in stock so I can continue this weekend.

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  I decided to not split the case unless it falls apart in dissassembly. I don't feel like adding the cost of rings and seals at this point, and since the piston and cylinder look great, and the saw seemed to run fine before I dissassembled it, I am just going to flush everything out to make sure no sawdust managed to find its way in during my cleaning. I have a question: do I need to worry about the case splitting open when I remove the tank/crankcase bolts and try to clean the outside of the cylinder, or will the grey dirko keep things glued together enough if I am not too aggressive? Or should I just bolt the engine to the replacement tank before I clean it?

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  The service manual was great for explaining how to dissassemble the brake, clutch, oiler, and flywheel. I used the starter rope in the cylinder method to stop the piston. Since the flywheel wouldn't come free, I partially threaded the nut onto the shaft and tapped it with a hammer to vibrate it loose.

Any thoughts as to what to use to clean the needle cage drum bearing? Would WD40 be appropriate, and then some lithium greese?

Thanks.

Robert

Did you get the metric or standard remover set? I just went downstairs and used mine again, not on an 1127 series saw but it worked fine. You have to keep the "bite" and not use an impact either. I don't even use the ratchet handle to ratchet, just constant force to keep it turning.



That back stud in that saw is a bugger though, and I do remember trashing the first one I did. I don't think it's a commonly stocked item though. Mine at least had to be ordered in.

Yes that is the remover I used...yes it was metric. And I tried to keep constant pressure once it gripped. That stud was just sooo tight in there..the fact that once it moved a little and STILL wouldn't let go enough to turn with vice-grips makes me think that it was a lost cause.

If I have to order the stud I will...though I am still hoping that one of the dealers in the area will have one floating around.

ribertgropius said:

Yes that is the remover I used...yes it was metric. And I tried to keep constant pressure once it gripped. That stud was just sooo tight in there..the fact that once it moved a little and STILL wouldn't let go enough to turn with vice-grips makes me think that it was a lost cause.

If I have to order the stud I will...though I am still hoping that one of the dealers in the area will have one floating around.

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Can't hurt to call a few, see if any one has it. I recall having to re"bite" the stud when installing it due to the extractor hitting the case with the stud not fully seated yet.

SpaayDawg said:

Can't hurt to call a few, see if any one has it. I recall having to re"bite" the stud when installing it due to the extractor hitting the case with the stud not fully seated yet.

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Which brings up a good question: how do I reinstall the stud? Do those extractor's work in both directions? (Obviously didn't try it!)

ribertgropius said:

Which brings up a good question: how do I reinstall the stud? Do those extractor's work in both directions? (Obviously didn't try it!)

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Yes they do, if you look inside it you'll see 3 jaws that bite the stud when you turn it either direction.

A little trick that I learned when removing bar studs is this. Go to the kitchen grab and do hickey thingy you use to open jars with. Take it out to the shop and cover the bar stud with it. Then use your vice grips and tighten it down tight with jar removal on the stud. Try it and see if it works.

this is a copy of post made by Stihl#1 when he rebuilt his 290 (which I believe is the same design as the 029)

the answer is right there.

In order to get the engine module out of the engine housing, there are four screws that go up through the bottom of the housing and pinch the engine pan to the cylinder while holding the whole affair together. There is also one bar stud, the rear one, that screws into the engine pan, and it has a thread locking compound on it and is very difficult to remove. What I do is lay some pieces of metal on the housing to act as a heat sink and protect the plastic from the heat I will use to soften up the thread locking compound. The oil passage nipple is right in this area and is easy to ruin if the heat gets near it.


I use a propane torch and very carefully heat the engine pan area where the stud goes in. A little heat is all that is needed, and then wait about a minute to let the heat soak in. The ribbed area sticking out from the pan is the area the stud screws into from the other side. Disclaimer: Flame and gasoline do not mix! Drain the tank and plug up the fuel line, clean off your bench, and do not blow yourself or your shop up!!!
I do not even try to save the bar stud. It will still be hard to remove, and locking pliers are needed to get a grip on the stud. There is not enough threads to try the double nut method. A new stud will be required. I borrowed a high dollar Snap-On stud tool one time to try this and it wouldn’t work either. Heat is the only way I have found to get the stud out. I would like to know if there is another way. The front stud is a DG thread screwed into plastic, and comes out easily. Remove it first so it is not in the way.

Notice the difference between the two studs, and how much thread locking compound comes out with the rear stud. The engine pan will need the hole cleaned out well and the new stud will need some fresh compound applied when installed. I use the blue stuff.
Now the engine is loose from the engine housing.
This is what is meant by STIHL when the phrase “engine module” or “modular engine design” is used. Pro saws have a split magnesium crankcase, like the 034 I did in another thread, with the cylinder held on from the top by four screws. A modular design holds the crankshaft in place to the bottom of the cylinder with an engine pan, and all the rest of the bits and pieces bolt onto the engine module.

This design allows for a lower cost of production, but results in a total tear-down to get to the piston and cylinder. There is nothing wrong with this design, it is just more labor intensive for service, and is used for saws that are considered home owner or occasional user models.

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I just put the studs in a vice to remove, then just rotate the crankcase,
it damages the studs a tad, so I don't try to sell them.

Where did you get the new crankcase from?

Fish said:

I just put the studs in a vice to remove, then just rotate the crankcase,
it damages the studs a tad, so I don't try to sell them.

Where did you get the new crankcase from?

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Fortunately, my local dealer has the stud in stock; for $4 and change I am not too upset. I bought the tank off of ebay last week ($23 used) and decided to buy the 029 tank instead of the MS290 primarily because I am still using my recoil, so this way the plastic should be aged/stained relatively uniform in color. I know, I know, it is a saw, not a piece of furniture, but I still like the idea of the parts kind of matching. I haven't received the tank yet to see it, but I bought if from someone in Minnesota who indicated it was in excellent condition.

My repair on the old tank will probably hold great, it just looks like hell with the previous jb-weld and then the sticker removed and then my repair. If I had gotten this pre-jb-weld, I probably would have lived with my epoxy repair since the nice thing about the plastic epoxy is that it has plastic material mixed into it so that it really provides some substance, both to seal but also to shape / sand / finish when you are done. I will have to borrow a camera or take a pic with my phone and post it here to illustrate for other's benefit.

I thought about taking a pressure washer to the old tank to clean it up and i may experiment in the summer just for fun. I know I have used that technique to clean up old plastic lawn furniture and i am curious what kind of job it would do on this tank. Since I don't have anything else to do with it, I will probably also throw it in the dishwasher and see how it comes out.

Apparently I have too much time on my hands.....

Robert

removing bar stud

The Stihl special tool for this works great. Some bar studs may however, have a bit more threadlocker, or even another strength (depending on who has been into it). Sometimes even the Stihl special tool will flatten the threads a bit. I just take the matching die from my tap and die set (8mm I believe for this one) and "chase" the threads. For me using the vise grips was in the early stages a major hassle, so I ditched that method early on.

I also suggest that you clean out the threads well in your clam shell bottom of your crank case before you reinsert the motor mounting bar stud. With all of this in mind it should be relatively easy for you to reinstall your new stud even with vise grips if you clean the hole well before reinstalling the stud.
Hope this helps.
Tommy

Stihlofadeal64 said:

The Stihl special tool for this works great. Some bar studs may however, have a bit more threadlocker, or even another strength (depending on who has been into it). Sometimes even the Stihl special tool will flatten the threads a bit. I just take the matching die from my tap and die set (8mm I believe for this one) and "chase" the threads. For me using the vise grips was in the early stages a major hassle, so I ditched that method early on.

I also suggest that you clean out the threads well in your clam shell bottom of your crank case before you reinsert the motor mounting bar stud. With all of this in mind it should be relatively easy for you to reinstall your new stud even with vise grips if you clean the hole well before reinstalling the stud.
Hope this helps.
Tommy

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Sounds like I better buy an 8mm tap and die to add to my collection. Thanks to everyone for the advice!

Robert

Double Nut the studs on and off. Take your bar nuts and thread them on. Lock them both together then use the inside one for removing studs and the outside one for installing them.

:agree2:

Racerboy832 said:

Double Nut the studs on and off. Take your bar nuts and thread them on. Lock them both together then use the inside one for removing studs and the outside one for installing them.

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Same technique I use.

You have done it on an MS290?

Fish said:

You have done it on an MS290?

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Yes, I would like to see this also.

I would hate to damage 2 good nuts, they do not come out easily.

Here are a few laying around my vise.....

B200,
I guess we have no takers on the double-nut tecnique!!!!

Racerboy832 said:

Double Nut the studs on and off. Take your bar nuts and thread them on. Lock them both together then use the inside one for removing studs and the outside one for installing them.

Click to expand...

:agree2:I was about to suggest the same thing luckily I kept reading before I opened my mouth.