Bars with built in tensioner.

[Oregon Engineer]

People do not often read manuals of the tools they are going to use.

Case study: Today we have autofocus cameras because people did not read the camera manuals. Engineers designing the next generation of cameras evaluated the pictures from consumers and noticed that most were NOT in focus. The number one consumer problem that needed to be solved was the inability to properly focus a camera. So the engineers worked on many different types of autofocus systems that are in the cameras both YOU and I use. You might say it was not the manufacturers problem. But they took responsibility for every aspect of their product and today we have much better products. Did you read your camera manual?

Number one problem for low use chain saw consumers - chain tension. You guys can accept it or not, that's your choice. We took it on as our problem and designed a bar, because thats as far as we can contribute to the market. Husky and Stihl took it on as their problem and now YOU have "side tensioning" systems on the chain saws that are much easier (for the pros like you guys) than tensioning from the front of the chain saw.

For most of you tensioning a chain is second nature, think of the fun I had standing next to the guys cutting firewood who don't understand how to tension a chain saw.

 

[scottr]

Freakin manual

Harry , if eveyone read the freakin manual it still would not solve the problem of the first timer being able to adjust the chain tension . Is this really the manufacturers problem ? It might be . I can see that if the bar has a slot with an easier adjustment that more people will try to adjust the chain tension but some wont try to loosen the bar nuts first . Lots of people buy saws that are already assembled in a box and probably never adjust the chain . When the chain falls off they take it back and exchange it for another saw . It's also interesting to read the instructions in some of the manuals that are written by someone that has never performed the task .

 

[pallis]

Actually, my problem isn't with Oregon or bar manufactures. It's with Husky, Poulan, Solo, etc., companies that use intenz bars as an excuse not to put a tensioner screw on the saw. How much could they be saving? Also, the bar nuts have to be loosened before the intenz bars can be properly adjusted. Why is that any easier than just having an adjusting screw to turn? As for people who don't read the instructions, that's a different matter.

 

[Oregon Engineer]

Why is that any easier than just having an adjusting screw to turn?

That little adjusting screw has so much mechanical advantage that it will allow an inexperienced chain saw user to put on 4 to 5 times the required chain tension. That much tension makes short work of the bearings in the bar nose. Sometimes the chain tension is soo high the chain will not move so the clutch burns up. Other times the user does not put the adjustment pin into the hole in the bar, damaging the pin, yielding insufficient chain tension, and a real lack of oil because the saw cover is assembled in a cocked position. It's a comedy of errors that can only be prevented if the adjusting pin and screw are removed.

For the manufacturers, they see a reduction in returned saws due to mistakes that are typically made by inexperienced users. On the flip side, the inexperienced user has fewer hassels with his new chain saw.

 

[oldsaw]

You see the same thing with motorcycles

Chain is either hiking up the rear suspension or dragging on the ground.

Consumers, they have to wreck everything....18 years in the consumer electronics business.

 

[pallis]

That little adjusting screw has so much mechanical advantage that it will allow an inexperienced chain saw user to put on 4 to 5 times the required chain tension.

I can definitely see how that wouldn't be a problem with the intenz system. Chains flying off is another matter.

 

[scottr]

Flying chains

Pat , what was the torque value on your PP295 bar nuts ? Did you lift the bar while you tightened the bar nuts ? Did you use the safety chain ?

 

[Fish]

There seems to be 2 different lines of thought here. One camp says the Intenz is fine, the problem is with the consumer.
Another camp says the Intenz bar Sucks, period.

How many experienced, seasoned, knowledgeable chainsaw folks here use/choose
the Intenz system?
How many experienced,seasoned, knowledgeable chainsaw folks here have done away with the intenz system by putting on a standard bar tensioning screw?
The intenz costs more, who has switched to it? Why?
Just curious, I really am.

 

[scottr]

Why

Fish , I use the Intenz on my PP220 because that is what came with the saw . When I first tried it the chain loosened up , then I tried to figure out why . I asked OE why he didn't use a finer thread on the rack & pinion gear . When it soaked in that the front bar nut had to pinch the locking fork to hold the bar then I stopped lifting the bar when tightening the front bar nut first . Then it worked with the safety chain . If I try to use Carlton N1 chain it will slip . Bailey's sells the bar adjust kit for $2.23 so it's not that big of a deal if you want to try a more aggressive chain .

 

[Fish]

So it only works with the stock safety chain? That is not much of a selling point.

 

[pallis]

Hi Scott, The 20 inch bar on the 295 pro never saw much use. I replaced the bar and made a tensioner screw for it before I used it. The saw I had trouble with was the Solo 650. I called Solo when I got it, and they sent a screw, but before it arrived the saw went through about five cords of wood and one chain that would still be good if I could have kept it on the bar. My technique for tightening a chain is pretty simple. I loosen the bar nuts until the bar can move freely. I pull it and tension the chain until I can pull on the center of the chain letting the teeth clear the bar with a little tension and snap back. I tighten up the nuts good and snug, make sure the chain turns freely without too much force, and go to it. That is how I was taught to tighten a chain, and I've never had problems with ruining bar sprockets, rims or chains. I've never used a torque wrench on bar nuts, so I'm not sure I can answer the torque question. I'm always willing to learn how to do something better; however, I don't have problems throwing chains, stretching chains or tearing up bars and saws the way I do things now, and my saws see a lot of use.

The problem with the intenz bar on the Solo was that the chain could not be tightened enough. The stuff I cut in is brushy and dirty, and there was no way to keep the chain tight on that bar. The problem wasn't with my chain tightening technique. If I could have tightened the chain sufficiently, the problem wouldn't have existed. Maybe Oregon engineer is right, and home owners fare better with the intenz. On the other hand, after putting up with it for awhile they might just install a tension screw, and learn how to do things right. Who knows? I'm not a pro, I just cut a lot of wood.

Do you use the intenz bars on your Poulans?

 

[pallis]

Scott, I didn't read your other post before posting the above. The chain I used on the Solo was .325 Carlton chisel. It wasn't safety chain. Maybe that was the problem.

 

[Fish]

After having a large number of people upset, when I told them that the saw was totalled, because they pulled the barstuds through the side of the saw, I realized
that I should get pre-emptive, and start talking them into having the standard adjustment screws put in.
I freely admit, I have not played around with the bar much, but have yet, except here, found anyone that remotely liked the design.
Now the Stihl quick adjust works well, not the side tensioner, but their quick adjuster

 

[Fish]

Now, since you all know what a cheap slut/tramp I am.

If Oregon was to send me a check, or cash to my new address, I will make many posts hereafter extolling the virtues of the Intenz bar. It does not have to be a large amount, just enough to buy some beer for a week or so. I can be bought cheaply enough.
John Fisher
Fisher Small Engine Repair
2665 Manton Rd.
Loretto, Ky 40037

 

[Fish]

If I get my check, I will tell you

 

[scottr]

Answer and torque

Pat , I have been using the Intenz bar on my PP220 for about 22 months now . My Poulan 2000 has a standard Poulan/Oregon bar . Fish , the poulan manual (PP220) says to torque the bar nuts to 10-15 ft/lbs . I've never torqued the bar nuts but I know it doesn't take that much torque to tighten it securely . It's a different feel in that when you tighten the front bar nut the bar (outer laminates) are actually being pinched to lock the wedge before the nut gets tight .

 

[Elmore]

Scott...let me get this straight. When adjusting your chain on the intenz bar you first tighten the front nut? Yes? The instructions from Oregon in regard to this system indicate tightening the rear nut...the one closest to the operator.

 

[scottr]

Sequence

Brad , yes , I tighten the front bar nut first . The instructions in the PP220 manual does not give a nut tightening sequence . I noticed that when I adjusted the Intenz bar with the pinion above the bar studs that the tip of the bar would be forced down . To keep the wedge lock tight against the bar stud I tighten the front bar nut first . When I tighten the bar nuts on a non Intenz bar I lift the tip of the bar and tighten the back nut first to help keep the tip in the up position .

 

[Rotax Robert]

Oregon Engineer, Just curious are your initials K.H. I had the chance to talk to and work out some problems with several of your guys when I built the Predator.

Robert Andrews aka Rotax Robert

 

[Oregon Engineer]

Fish – Intenz bars are best used with safety chain in non-professional cutting applications. They are designed for the occasional chain saw user. Whether it is bikes, motorcycles, guns, archery, tractors, trucks, boats, or any product with a user base of varying abilities, each manufacturer will market products to users of specific abilities. If you get a mismatch between the product and the user abilities the user will be unhappy with the product.

I value your input and I watch these threads to guide users on selecting the product best fit for their abilities so they are not dissatisfied.

I will never pay to silence your opinion on Intenz. The worst problem I can have, is the one I don’t know about! I usually try and convince guys like you to test prototype products. If a professional version of Intenz was being prototyped, you’d be getting one.

As a pro you don’t see the need for Intenz, proper chain tension is second nature for you. You’ll just have to believe me that there are far more occasional chain saw users in the USA than pros! Those occasional chain saw users have a problem with chain tension.

Scottr – Sounds like you’re adjusting and using the Intenz bar correctly.

Elmore – After reading your post I checked the current instructions for Intenz bars. The current instructions, on the inside of the bar packaging, do not specify which stud nut to tighten first. It does not make any difference which of the two you tighten first. But it is important that the internal rack is against the front stud when you secure the stud nuts.
If the instructions are from OREGON at the bottom you should find an “F/N” followed by a number and other information. I’d appreciate it if you could check the instructions and let me know that information.
If the instructions are from a chain saw manufacturer I’d also like to know which manufacturer and model number the instructions came from.

Rotax Robert – I got your PM about K.H. and responded