Considering a new Stihl

[Corbet]

I've owned a MS-290 now for over 10 years. Still runs great, just looking for more power. I'm just a homeowner who cuts 7-8 cords a year. The 290 has a 20" bar and bogs down more than I'd like. It's still stock. I should do the muffler mod I know.

I've been looking at the 362 with a 25" bar, but kind of think the longer bar might eat up the power increase. Should I consider an even bigger saw to run a 25" bar? I'm often cutting where the longer bar would be desirable. If I buy a bigger saw I won't mod it right away but maybe down the road.

Any thoughts on the 362 or larger are appreciated. I'm not really interested in deviating from Stihl. I've got other Stihl tools and always been happy with them.

 

[computeruser]

362 is a great 16-20” saw, and you can even 8t if at 16” with good results, but if you want to run 24-5” you want more engine. 461 is about ideal for that length.

Give the 290 a bath and sell it, you will get nearly half the cost of a 362 doing that. Then see what the 362 feels like in your use. If you still need more saw, a 362/661 combo might be fun!

 

[fearofpavement]

The MS290 you have would greatly benefit from a muffler mod and retune. Do you actually cut wood larger than a 20" bar will handle? Or are you looking for additional reach. Some tall people like longer bars so they don't have to bend over as much. I don't have that tall problem so can't relate.

Regarding the 362, I've never used one so won't comment on it but if you like your MS290, you may want to consider an MS390 to complement it. Everything on that would be the same except for the cylinder/piston. It would run a 25" bar. (but is happiest with a 20")

 

[Corbet]

I won't part with the 290. My boy will end up running that before I know it.

At 6' not having to bend over as much would be an added bonus but yes I find myself cutting stuff over 20" when I can find it. So the longer bar would be faster/easier.

I should also probably note, most of my cutting happens at over 10,000' elevation. I'm sure that's contributing to some power loss.

 

[Evan]

Id pick a bar a few inches bigger than the average tree size you cut then pick a saw with more than enough power to run it.

Ive never felt like i was slowed down by having to long of a bar i actualy like limbing with a 32"
I have felt way under barred with 20"

 

[Ryan'smilling]

I won't part with the 290. My boy will end up running that before I know it.

At 6' not having to bend over as much would be an added bonus but yes I find myself cutting stuff over 20" when I can find it. So the longer bar would be faster/easier.

I should also probably note, most of my cutting happens at over 10,000' elevation. I'm sure that's contributing to some power loss.

A 362 is a nice saw, and will feel considerably more capable and faster than your 290. Since you're in CO, and cutting up high, can I assume you're cutting pine and other soft wood? If so, a 362 would be a decent setup for a 24" bar, especially a reduced weight bar like an ES Light bar from stihl or a tsumura light and tough. You could probably even run a 28" bar with skip tooth chain. Personally I strongly prefer a 28" to a 24". At 6'2", for me it's the difference of being able to reach the ground with the tip of the bar versus having a really nose heavy saw that requires a lot of bending over.

That said, while you probably could run a bar that size cutting pine with a 60cc saw, you might be happier with a 70+cc saw. Stihl will soon have three models to choose from: 441, 461, and 462. Pros and cons to all of them. 441 is m-tronic, spring AV, and better air filtration. 461 has more power and weighs the same but has rubber AV and requires the user to be able to tune the carb, 462 is a lot lighter with at least as much power, but isn't available yet (sometime this year), and there's always the risk of buying a new anything in the first year of production.

Personally, I'd probably set the 290 up with a 16" bar. Probably .325 pitch. I'd use it for limbing and topping out trees. Then, I'd run one of the bigger Stihls for felling and bucking. I'd probably want a 20" and a 28" bar for it.

Good luck, and let us know what you end up with.

 

[pioneerguy600]

I have run a 362 a fair bit now and it is about maxed out at a 20" bar, yes you can get by by running skip chain on a longer bar in softwood but I find the oiler pump is quite stingy on bars over 20" in dry wood. For a 24 - 25" bar I run those on the 70cc 044 and MS440. The 441 would do what you need quite well, the 461 even more so. Actually only you yourself can really tell what you like best by actually running these saws for at least a few hours. Fit,feel and balance seems to be a personal choice, each individual is different.

 

[User Name Here]

I run a 362 at work, have used it a lot. It pulls a 20 pretty darn good. I think you would pull a 24 fine in softwood. Hardwood might bog it down some with a 24 but probably no more than your 290 with a 20"er. For that size bar I like a 70cc, but I mostly cut hardwood. A 441 or 461 would pull a 24 very well, a 362 would pull it fine but probably a good bit slower. I would say it would depend on how hard the wood you're cutting is and how often you would be utilizing the full length of the bar. I've never been real impressed with the 290 (I've run 4-5) but the 362 can surprise you, especially with a properly sharpened chain.

 

[Evan]

I can tell you modded 372 440s run very well at 9000ft in idaho on fir in 4ft range.

I used to have 24 25 28 and 32" bars . Ive weeded off all but 18" thats on the small saw and have a few 32s .
32" infront of capable mill bucks faster and limbs faster while walking the tree.

I never really noticed much diffrince cut speed between skip and full. However when bucking a 4ft tree full tends to clof in cut more. The big sprocket covers make a huge difrince.

Have fun

 

[user 122190]

I was in your position a few years ago and decided on the ms461. The ms461 is a big step up from the 290, but the 2 is IMO the nearly perfect 2 saw plan.

I've owned a MS-290 now for over 10 years. Still runs great, just looking for more power. I'm just a homeowner who cuts 7-8 cords a year. The 290 has a 20" bar and bogs down more than I'd like. It's still stock. I should do the muffler mod I know.

I've been looking at the 362 with a 25" bar, but kind of think the longer bar might eat up the power increase. Should I consider an even bigger saw to run a 25" bar? I'm often cutting where the longer bar would be desirable. If I buy a bigger saw I won't mod it right away but maybe down the road.

Any thoughts on the 362 or larger are appreciated. I'm not really interested in deviating from Stihl. I've got other Stihl tools and always been happy with them.

 

[User Name Here]

If the funds are not the deciding factor, I would definitely go 461!

 

[54bogger]

I agree with what has been said already. If you go with the 70cc saw you'll be kicking yourself for not doing it sooner!

 

[K Mueller]

I vote for the 461 and 28” light bar!

 

[earlthegoat2]

In my opinion and from never being on the west coast, a 25" bar belongs on a 70cc saw. Even the soft woods we have over here are heavier, denser and wetter than fir, cedar, and spruce and require more power to run any given bar length.

From an MS290 I would also go to the 461 with 25" or 28" I like 28s on the 046/460/461 saws. Seems to balance just right with it. Having used and fussed with 044s and 440s for so long, I no longer prefer them to the 46 series.

 

[Icedogs28]

All these easy coast (hard wood guys) run small bars on big engines. I'm in CA and out here a MS362 will pull a 25" bar no problem! I had one, it was a monster (was my first pro saw). I think in Colorado, you will be fine with a 25" on a 362. Also, the Mtronics will be nice at your altitude. The ms461 does not have the auto adjust carb And will require some effort to get it running right at your altitude

 

[Corbet]

The Mtronic fuel system looks interesting but honestly after 14 years my 290's carb has never been touched since leaving the store. Still starts and runs great. It was originally tuned for 10,000' and that's where I generally run it.

Does the Mtronic system hinder me in the future if I decide to modify the saw when the warranty expires?

I went and looked at them again today. The 70cc saws just look massive in comparison to my 290. While the 362 looks easy to manage all day long. Price definitely comes into play. $300 more basically for the 70's.

Those of you out west, please let me know what altitude your running your saws at. I'm assuming they are just like cars, you loose 30% of your power at 10,000'. I can't image a 2-stroke is any different? Stihl needs a forced induction model for us high altitude guys.

 

[Icedogs28]

I agree, a 70cc saw is overkill. Like you said, a 362 is comfortable to run all day. The beauty of the Mtronic is that not only will it tune to your elevation, but it's constantly tuning the saw. So you are always getting max power and efficiency. Weather, altitude ect... Doesn't matter, saw will always be on point

 

[Amos Moses]

The Mtronic fuel system looks interesting but honestly after 14 years my 290's carb has never been touched since leaving the store. Still starts and runs great. It was originally tuned for 10,000' and that's where I generally run it.

Does the Mtronic system hinder me in the future if I decide to modify the saw when the warranty expires?

I went and looked at them again today. The 70cc saws just look massive in comparison to my 290. While the 362 looks easy to manage all day long. Price definitely comes into play. $300 more basically for the 70's.

Those of you out west, please let me know what altitude your running your saws at. I'm assuming they are just like cars, you loose 30% of your power at 10,000'. I can't image a 2-stroke is any different? Stihl needs a forced induction model for us high altitude guys.

I’m about two hours from you and cut on USFS land. I live at 9000ft and cut standing dead spruce/fir at 10700-11200. Most of what I cut is 18-26” in diameter and 60cc is the smallest saw I would take to the woods at this elevation. I’ve run saws at sea level (Louisiana and also Houston area) and I would say it takes a good 10-15cc boost in size to approach the same sea level cutting efficiency at 11000ft.

These trees are all beetle kill and the bark and underlay is quite dirty. This and the large diameter of super dry wood with lots of pitch really taxes the oiling system. I have a Husqvarna 460 rancher that is routinely sold with a 24” bar and have turned a 20” bar blue at the tip while bucking large rounds with the oiler maxed out. On the other hand my Echo cs590 uses almost as much bar oil as mix gas (not a bad thing in my opinion).

If the folks on here with experience are saying the 362 is marginal on oiling then you can plan on a short life for the longer bars you are looking to run. If you are dead set on Stihl then I would look into the 70cc class. I run 70cc Huskies at work and just like my Echo they put out all the oil you can stand. I can’t see the equivalent saws in the Stihl lineup would be any different. I think a saw designed for full time use with a long bar is what you need regardless of brand.

Another thing I would consider is dealer support for an M Tronic saw. There is relatively little pro logging in our area and I bet almost any dealer you find handles homeowner saws to pro saws at a 10-1 ratio or better and may not have boatloads of experience with the new technology.

If your buying or getting service in Durango consider that your dealer is a good 2-3000ft lower in elevation than where you intend to put this saw to work. I was the proud owner of one of Husqvarna’s self tuning hotrods and it turned out that it couldn’t lean itself out enough to accommodate the conditions I was using it in. I took it the the dealer at 7500ft and it scanned just fine and never stumbled during a test cut. Your mileage may vary but I wouldn’t hold my breath on getting a potential problem resolved by an inexperienced tech, let alone one trying to solve a problem that can’t be duplicated in their environment.

 

[Evan]

Im not not sure im into m tronic, when im cutting i may tune a couple times a day leep a screw driver in my pocket takes just seconds to make a tweak .

What paramiters and tuning baseline does mtronic go off of. Is always on rich side lean side? I could see that driving me crazy not being able to tweak a mtronic saw thats running fat or lean.

28 does balance well on 70cc

 

[Ryan'smilling]

The Mtronic fuel system looks interesting but honestly after 14 years my 290's carb has never been touched since leaving the store. Still starts and runs great. It was originally tuned for 10,000' and that's where I generally run it.

Does the Mtronic system hinder me in the future if I decide to modify the saw when the warranty expires?

Your 290 might run just fine, but it's not perfectly tuned every time you cut unless you make an adjustment. Everything from temperature to humidity, wood size, and what color socks you're wearing will affect the tune. The m-tronic system is constantly adjusting the mix ratio so it's always tuned perfectly. Yes, you have to trust a computer, which is scary, and I have no personal experience using them at that altitude, but when the m-tronic is working correctly it makes for a really really nice running saw.

No, it will not hinder any future mods. If fact they run great with just a muffler mod and a timing advance. The m-tronic makes doing that stuff super easy. No need to retune. The stock carb will even keep up with a woods ported one just fine.

Im not not sure im into m tronic, when im cutting i may tune a couple times a day leep a screw driver in my pocket takes just seconds to make a tweak .

What paramiters and tuning baseline does mtronic go off of. Is always on rich side lean side? I could see that driving me crazy not being able to tweak a mtronic saw thats running fat or lean.

28 does balance well on 70cc

M-TRONIC only senses crank speed with a magnet in the flywheel. It adjusts fuel to make it where it thinks it should be.

They're always tuned right on. My ported 261 4-strokes nicely when I lift it out of the cut, but it's not overly rich. I've never put a tach on it, but it's gotta be approaching 15k with no load.