A bigger winch does not mean you will draw less current. Most of the time, it's just the opposite. I've looked at Warn winches and the bigger the winch the more it draws, unloaded. I saw some that were in the 60-80A range with no load, and they have way more pulling power than an atv winch. As you increase the load, yes the current will go up. One needs to look at the specs of the winch. Typically the faster the winch, the more current, but less pulling power you have.
Splitter question: which is more useful
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A bigger winch does not mean you will draw less current. Most of the time, it's just the opposite. I've looked at Warn winches and the bigger the winch the more it draws, unloaded. I saw some that were in the 60-80A range with no load, and they have way more pulling power than an atv winch. As you increase the load, yes the current will go up. One needs to look at the specs of the winch. Typically the faster the winch, the more current, but less pulling power you have.
Grimmy, I think you missed the point. Line speed and amp draw are directly effected by load. No load is no load. If the winch draws 10 amps or 100 amps at noload, that is what it is going to draw. As the load is increased, so will the amp draw. A winch at full load will draw more than it would at half load. A winch designed to pull 2000lbs will draw a certain amount of amps at no load, but the amps needed will increase significantly at the 1000lb load and even more at the full 2000lb load. If you double the line to pull the full 2000lb load, you will reduce the amp draw by approx 50%. Still moving the same 2000lbs of load, but using half the amps to move the load. Further testing has also proven that even tho you doubled the amount of line used, you have not changed the actual retreival speed by any significant amount. A winch will retrive faster at half load than it will at full load. When compareing winches, you have to compare apples to apples. The amount of amps used for the amount of load to pull. I would not use a 10000lb winch to load a stick of firewood. Even a 2000lb winch should be more than adequate, but you can reduce amp draw by going to a slightly bigger winch which would be operating in a very light, to amost no load, condition instead of putting a smaller winch at or closer to its max load rating. That was the point I was trying to make, not that going to the biggest winch you can find is a good ideal.
I know there is a link out there somewhere that explains what I am saying about winchs and power draw, I just cant find it right now. Here is one I found that is doing comparisons of the larger 8000lb plus size winchs. http://www.mikesjeep.com/articles/choosing-a-winch. Pay attention to the amp draw, load, and the effects of cable wrap on the drum of the various winches tested. The winchs might be different brands and sizes, but the effects of different loads and amp draw all seem to have the same tendencies as I found discussed on a different, (cant find now) site that was compareing atv/utv winches.
enlightening to say the least. thanks
NSMaple1
Addicted to ArboristSite
Was trying to get my head around this, and played with some numbers from that link.
So for the 9.5 winch, at 2000lbs, it pulls 16.6fps using 169 amps. And at 4000lbs, it pulls 11.8fps at 248 amps.
And for the VR12, at 2000lbs, it pulls 12.6fps using 144 amps. And at 4000lbs, it pulls 9.5fps at 215.
(Numbers from his charts)
So applying some math to a 100' pull (example), I came up with the 9.5 using 1018 amp seconds vs. 1143 amp seconds for the VR12 at 2000 lbs load, and the 9.5 using 2101 amp seconds vs. 2263 amp seconds for the VR12 at 4000 lbs load.
Which seems to indicate that the bigger the winch is, the more power it will use, assuming pulling equal loads for equal distances? I'm no electrical engineer - somebody tell me what I did wrong, if I did.
ChoppyChoppy
Tree Freak
I'm surprised. A winch will easily pull 100-200 amps at a moderate pull. The "alternator" on most garden tractor type engines is usually only around 10 amps. 100amp draw for 5 mins would take ~50 mins to recharge.
Your math isnt wrong, you just doubled the load instead of cutting the load in half. That is the opposite of what I was trying to say. Look at the numbers again. If the size of the load stays the same at 2000lbs using one winch rated at 95000lbs, the winch would only draw the amount of power it took to move the 2000lbs, not the amount of power needed to move 4000lbs which is less than half the winch capacity. Speed would increase from the 9.5fps, to 12.6fps and amp draw would be reduced from 215amps to 144 amps or from the 482 amps 6.2fps needed for full load. For long pulls you have to also consider the effect of line wrap on the drum. Pulling capacity is rated at one line wrap, the pulling power can be reduced by 75% by just adding 4 more wraps of cable on the drum. Because pulling capacity is reduced, so is line speed and you will see a increase in amps used. That 9500lb winch will only pull 6940 lbs with a full spool of rope and would use a full 482 amps to do so. I would guesstimate that using a winch on a wood splitter boom, most pulls would be short. I have a 20ft control cable on mine and seldom extend the cable that far. A lot could be said for simply cutting off the extra unused cable to give more power and reduce amp load.
Most of the ATV/UTV winchs are only 2000=4500lb pull. From what little info I have been able to find, they need around 25amps for no load and 125amps for full load. Maybe some one can find a little better info.
I couldn't build a log splitter that I wanted for the cost of the one I bought.
30 Ton Forest King bought from TSC store in Belleville, Ontario, Canada for $1500.00
They retail for $2400.00 now when not on sale.
It's got tilt action for really big rounds and a 277cc Kohler engine.
I also put a log cradle on it to keep split from falling back to the ground.
It's a simple yet powerful machine and gets the job done.
Now that is a beauty and for $1500? Holy Cow!
I probably have close to a grand in my splitter at this point after all the failures and BS and it's only 14 ton....
VirginiaIron
ArboristSite Operative
That stinks. Some say anything over 20 is not needed. TSC has a "FAST" 25 TON on sale every once in a while for 799. Rugged Built has a half beam 22 TON, lift and 4 way for ?1499? Plus shipping- I recently observed an add for 499 off but I did not see the price. Mine was an heirloom piece so I decided to mod it and keep a little of my dad working with me.
Mine is also a heirloom piece my dad built in the 80s. It was blown up in 90s and we finally got it back last year. Dad and I rebuilt it again. It does everything we need it to do with a single stage pump and 1500psi but dad and I replaced or worked on every component except for the beam/wedge and the Hydreco hydraulic pump.
But it's tough to not be jealous of a modern splitter for a good price. The tilt beam design solves a lot of problems that I'm trying to overcome with brute Force and iron...
But it's tough to not be jealous of a modern splitter for a good price. The tilt beam design solves a lot of problems that I'm trying to overcome with brute Force and iron...
half
ArboristSite Operative
Ive got a 25 ton the same design they are brilliant for splitting big stuff, Most of my rounds is 2-3ft across and have no trouble When it is horizontal. I push it over the tailgate in the trailer, and use that as a table, works quite well. A table would be nice, but it would have to be removable and there is 4 bolt holes on each side of the beam, that could be used to attach it ,but it would need stands to support the weight when a big round is on it
VirginiaIron
ArboristSite Operative
I know. I keep looking at the RuggedBuilt and EastonMade horizontal units with lifts.
Erik B
ArboristSite Guru
Try putting something like a Work Mate table next to the splitter.
half
ArboristSite Operative
Thats not a silly idea
X2 on the Forrest King splitter. Mine is the 22ton. Looks like the one pictured above. Bought it at Menards on a spring sale for right at $1000. Some of my wiser spent moola! I can even pull it around my yard by hand. No more lifting rounds to speak of. Never split horizontal anymore. Sit my arse on a round and munch through a staged pile of rounds. Get up and restage the next rounds. Repeat. Food for thought.
Here's my log splitter table I built a couple of years ago using 2 x 4's and 2 x 6's. I could actually use one on both sides of the beam, but now I just have it on the operator side:
The legs are half-lapped joined to the side stretchers. The top is about 1" below the beam, just below the sliding wedge. As an experiment, I tried getting along without it one day. That lasted about 10 minutes.
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