Hate to beat a dead horse!!

[irishcountry]

I know this has been posted lots of times but i'm looking for suggestions. First off the house is very inefficiently insulated old windows ect. second we are not sure if we are moving or renovating next year right now we pay $380 year round for utilities or (4560 annually) which is killing us on top of taxes and if we do do repairs which would mean tearing off the second floor and probrobly just making it 1 story. The house is roughly 3500 sq ft right now we do not use or really heat the second floor other than what radiants up. We can move whatever we install this season would it make sense to put in a wood stove just to get by for this season or put a gasifacation unit we can put in our garage and run to our baseboard and start saving some $$$ like I said we can move what we install next year if we move but we would really like to renovate the savings would go directly to taxes or repairs. I am kinda lost and just want some outsiders input. A outdoor wood boiler is kinda in the same price range as the gasifaction stuff so thats a option too. I don't know someone please throw out some advice!!

 

[Jkebxjunke]

do you have access to low cost or free wood? would the equipment work in your renovations? Could you use it at the new location if you move?
You mentioned removing the upstairs.. what about turning it into an apartment?
if you did that you could renovate one lever while living in the other.. and then move into the renovated level and renovate the other and then rent it out. just a thought. or just insulate the crap out of the place and enjoy the extra space. or just use a wood stove for now and move next year to a smaller place.

 

[Jkebxjunke]

:agree2: :agree2: :agree2:

 

[windthrown]

This winter is going to be a ball breaker. Natural Gas is going up somethng like 30% in Oregon this October. The price of heating oil is already out of sight.

My brother and I are scrounging up as much free firewood as we can get, and have it stacked and seasoning on pallets in the back lot. I already put in all new windows there on his house a couple years ago, and he added more insulation. We may add more insulation this year too, and put foam boards up over the windows.

As for what to do? Your call there. Maybe sell and move, but its a bad time with this market. Tearing off the second story of the house seems rather drastic (but maybe not unreasonable). An outdoor boiler is good if you have a LOT of firewood. Here in the mild PNW at my ex's house, I put in a Central Boiler OWB and that replaced a $300 a month electric heating bill, but it burns 10 cords a year. They eat a lot of firewood. They work well though, and put out a lot of heat. You could also go with an indoor stove, as long as it has an outside air supply. People do not understand that, and a lot of stove companies still make stoves that suck warm air out of your house to feed the fire with and it goes right up the flue. Forget heating with 90% of the masonry fireplaces in the US. Unless they have an insert or something, they are useless and good at sucking heat out of the house.

At least you are aware of the issue and of what is coming. Many many people are not prepared for what is going to happen in the US this winter. Heating bills are going to knock people over this winter, and hard.

 

[mga]

second we are not sure if we are moving or renovating next year

until you make that decision, why invest thousands in a heating system?

Treeco is 100% correct.

 

[A. Stanton]

Irish,
I agree with the replies that tell you to make no major renovations until you decide if you are staying or leaving. I would deal with those windows though. They are a big heat loss. Probably the cheapest, short of new ones, is to buy 3m or similar kits that would cover em with plastic for the winter. Not pretty, but effective. I would also consider a cheap wood pellet stove from some place like Tractor Supply or Home Cheapo. I believe these stoves are zero clearance and can be put just about anywhere in the house.
Add to the fact that they only take a 3"flue which can be put perpendicular through any wall. The inlet pipe would run below it.
As one of the loggers said in Ax Men, "I think we will all be whistling a sad tune" when it comes to enery this winter.

 

[woodguy105]

I know this has been posted lots of times but i'm looking for suggestions. First off the house is very inefficiently insulated old windows ect. second we are not sure if we are moving or renovating next year right now we pay $380 year round for utilities or (4560 annually) which is killing us on top of taxes and if we do do repairs which would mean tearing off the second floor and probrobly just making it 1 story. The house is roughly 3500 sq ft right now we do not use or really heat the second floor other than what radiants up. We can move whatever we install this season would it make sense to put in a wood stove just to get by for this season or put a gasifacation unit we can put in our garage and run to our baseboard and start saving some $$$ like I said we can move what we install next year if we move but we would really like to renovate the savings would go directly to taxes or repairs. I am kinda lost and just want some outsiders input. A outdoor wood boiler is kinda in the same price range as the gasifaction stuff so thats a option too. I don't know someone please throw out some advice!!

Hi Irish Country-

Lots of us are in the same boat with taxes, fuel costs etc. My wife and I burn would as primary heat with an oil fired, terribly inefficient hot air furnace as back up. Our house is about 2,500 sq. ft. built in 1920 and pretty, no actually very drafty and mostly old,old windows. We keep the thermostat around 48 - 50 degress. As long as the basement stays warm enough the plumbing is safe.

a couple of things to consider:

I'd look into a good efficient wood stove insert if you have a fireplace, free standing wood stove or if easier (as mentioned earlier) a pellet or maybe corn stove?

In the winter we primarily use the living rm (with our lopi Answer wood stove )and the kitchen (off the living room).The one stove keeps this area very comfortable. We have 2 other stoves that we use when it gets BITTER COLD but not to0 often. The rest of the house stays cold, we wear sweaters and sleep like rocks under warm blankets. In the past we have used nice looking tapestries to block doorways & unused rooms to keep the heat where we need it most.

Lastly, I've been a realtor for over 17 years. Before you decide to "remove" a whole second floor, get a Realtor in there & let them know what you are planning to do. Losing sq. footage typically does not increase value! Do your homework re: the renovations. A good local full time Realtor can advise you. It's tough to judge values in this market but they should be able to give you an idea of how your changes will impact future value. They may also have suggestions about local & federal tax incentive programs for making a home more energy efficient.

Hope this helps...

Rob

 

[logbutcher]

This winter is going to be a ball breaker. Natural Gas is going up somethng like 30% in Oregon this October. The price of heating oil is already out of sight.
My brother and I are scrounging up as much free firewood as we can get, and have it stacked and seasoning on pallets in the back lot. I already put in all new windows there on his house a couple years ago, and he added more insulation. We may add more insulation this year too, and put foam boards up over the windows.
As for what to do? Your call there. Maybe sell and move, but its a bad time with this market. Tearing off the second story of the house seems rather drastic (but maybe not unreasonable). An outdoor boiler is good if you have a LOT of firewood. Here in the mild PNW at my ex's house, I put in a Central Boiler OWB and that replaced a $300 a month electric heating bill, but it burns 10 cords a year. They eat a lot of firewood. They work well though, and put out a lot of heat. You could also go with an indoor stove, as long as it has an outside air supply. People do not understand that, and a lot of stove companies still make stoves that suck warm air out of your house to feed the fire with and it goes right up the flue. Forget heating with 90% of the masonry fireplaces in the US. Unless they have an insert or something, they are useless and good at sucking heat out of the house.

At least you are aware of the issue and of what is coming. Many many people are not prepared for what is going to happen in the US this winter. Heating bills are going to knock people over this winter, and hard.

By god we have got a big fat case of Chicken Little here. Take it easy, have a brew and calm down.

This winter will be like any other winter. At least here in the Northeast there will be cold, there will be snow storms, there will be ice, there will be power outages, there will be #%*&@# noises about bad snow shoveling backs. Kind of like last winter. Where are you AlGore ?

Yes, fossil fuel costs will be high, but not compared to most First World nations....like the E.U. and Canada. The supply is there, the cost is up.
Those without balls will definately not have theirs broken.

And please, let's get off the myth of "heat being sucked out of the house" thing by wood stoves. Ain't true EXCEPT in completely air tight envelopes, which was in vogue awhile ago with high tech heat exchangers. That building technique died fast--think "sick houses" . Outside air code requirements came in because of those over tight homes. No way needed in the average well insulated house of today or older houses with many cubic feet of incoming air and air exchanges. Open fireplaces do "suck" heat, not the average EPA wood stove.

Even without wood heat, houses can be simply and cheaply tightened up: caulking cracks, shooting foam into empty spaces such as around doors and windows, getting a "cold roof" by insulating an attic space. No need to make the house into a prison by covering windows with foam boards ( who wants that ? ); Cover the windows with clear plastic--it's the air space that insulates.

Hey, you PNW guys have a tropical climate anyhow, why worry ?.

And: Chicken Little just bought it on Route 1 by a BST ( Big Scary Truck). Ain't coming down for breakfast.

 

[irishcountry]

Hey guys thank you for all the quick replys I really do appreciate it and thats all good advice!! I should elaborate a bit more in the living room there is already a insulated pipe that used to be used in the 80's for a large avacado shaped open woodburner similar to what you now see on peoples decks like outdoor wood patio heaters. I have looked at the pipe and it looks to be in reasonable shape but it may be a little bigger than what I would need which I wondered if its 8" maybe I can for this season run singlewall 6" up through (not sure though). Secondly this has been my childhood home and my family has been here for 13 years now so they and I both have sentimental value involved and my business has been here which I would have to relocate so ultimately we are looking to reduce energy which could be applied to taxes and offset some expense. The second floor was made into a expiremental solar thing and it looks like a pyramid mothership land on our home right on top of the old rafters then the old rafters were cut out and the inside was finished a contractor told us the loads transfer to "nowhere" and we were considering pre-made trusses set to make it into a capecod but that would be expensive but doable but if we finish it it will also raise our taxes and ultimately leave less room to insulate. I suppose for this season I should just look at a decent indoor wood burner my wife is not crazy about the possibility of wood smoke getting in our indoor air when its open though. No matter what we do we have to be here for another year I need to run my greenhouse to get some more dinero saved up!! thanks again to all!!

 

[irishcountry]

Forgot to mention I have been cutting and splitting free ash firewood all summer still have to get alot of it under cover and I split enough for my greenhouse operation early this summer and it seems to already be very dry. I have no idea how much I really have yet have to split it up with the neighbor but its a pretty good amount a pile about 25ft.x10 wide by about 5ft, high (not stacked just thrown in a pile right now) I am also not done cutting and splitting so I know its a good deal of wood and it was all free!!

 

[logbutcher]

I suppose for this season I should just look at a decent indoor wood burner my wife is not crazy about the possibility of wood smoke getting in our indoor air when its open though. thanks again to all!!

I thought I was dismissed.

Not to worry about wood smoke escaping when loading a wood stove. Most who do the wood stove thing never have that problem, even with top loaders and both pre- and post- EPA stoves.

Simple: open the damper or air control, give it full air intake a minute or so BEFORE opening. It then drafts or "sucks" the smoke out, giving the chimney a chance to do its thing correctly. We've been burning wood for too damn long; never had any smoke or smell in the room loading. And no, nada smell of smoke in the house----ever. Besure you've got a good draft. The Admiral would not allow it. Visitors don't know we have the stoves heating the place until they put their butts next to the heaters.

 

[toddstreeservic]

:deadhorse:

 

[danrclem]

If you have an adequate chimney and can't figure out what you're going to do buy a used woodstove. You already have the wood so if you buy an old Buck or Fisher or other decent stove it'll help a lot and you shouldn't have much money invested.

 

[JBinKC]

Irish you should have been making the energy related renovations when there were generous federal income tax credits available. They are now expired.

I don't know your exact setup but if you can get a limitless supply of wood I would try to buy the biggest gasification OWB available and somehow tie it the operation of your greenhouse and heating your house so you can immediately section 179 the cost of it but be aware of future restrictive regulations on them with no consistent guidelines popping up on them. If you cannot afford the upfront on a system then I would I would either buy the largest models of an EPA approved stoves that is top chimney vented and used is OK. The top units with a big deep firebox should never emit smoke if properly installed.

 

[irishcountry]

Yeah I thought about that one of the new seqoyahs with the orange tags. I was told by our township (should have never called!!) that we can't have one since we are zoned residential and they are banned in our area?? Then about a month later OWB's were mentioned in the minutes as a "new outdoor device" that their are currently no restrictions on that some restrictions should be set for funny ain't it since they are supposedly already banned!!~ This is the same township that said I didn't need a plumbing or electrical permit since I was just putting back our laundry and upstairs area back the way it was originally done (the framers ripped it out) and a contractor already pulled a remodel/repair permit but guess what they want me to get now that the building inspector passed all the framing stuff and seen the work I did to put in the electrical and plumbing (I we above and beyond code). My gut tells me just for this year to at least supplement I should just hook up where the old woodburner was I can always use the woodstove in one of the greenhouses down the road I already use wood in the big greenhouse (biggest harman add-on furnace I could get) that has saved me big on propane which is what I use in our greenhouses for back up. Well again thanks to everyone who has replied I do appreciate it I know everyone is kinda in the same boat right now things keep getting more expensive and gotta find new rocks to squeeze to keep up!! Everybody hang in there! Hopefully once I get my stash stacked I will get a pic up. Thanks irishcountry

 

[windthrown]

By god we have got a big fat case of Chicken Little here. Take it easy, have a brew and calm down.

This winter will be like any other winter.

No, this winter will be the most expensive heating year on record. Chicken little or not, heating oil prices are almost two times what they were last year. Its gonna be ugly for a lot of people, especially in the Northeast there in New England.

You have your head in the sand up there in Maine??? Are you completely unaware of the energy crisis and limited global resources? And Al Gore? Who the :censored: is he? This has nothing to do with politics, or global warming, and everything to do with the new era of EXPENSIVE OIL.

Wake up Bubba... time are changing.

 

[mga]

Hey guys thank you for all the quick replys I really do appreciate it and thats all good advice!! I should elaborate a bit more in the living room there is already a insulated pipe that used to be used in the 80's for a large avacado shaped open woodburner similar to what you now see on peoples decks like outdoor wood patio heaters. I have looked at the pipe and it looks to be in reasonable shape but it may be a little bigger than what I would need which I wondered if its 8" maybe I can for this season run singlewall 6" up through (not sure though). Secondly this has been my childhood home and my family has been here for 13 years now so they and I both have sentimental value involved and my business has been here which I would have to relocate so ultimately we are looking to reduce energy which could be applied to taxes and offset some expense. The second floor was made into a expiremental solar thing and it looks like a pyramid mothership land on our home right on top of the old rafters then the old rafters were cut out and the inside was finished a contractor told us the loads transfer to "nowhere" and we were considering pre-made trusses set to make it into a capecod but that would be expensive but doable but if we finish it it will also raise our taxes and ultimately leave less room to insulate. I suppose for this season I should just look at a decent indoor wood burner my wife is not crazy about the possibility of wood smoke getting in our indoor air when its open though. No matter what we do we have to be here for another year I need to run my greenhouse to get some more dinero saved up!! thanks again to all!!

what do you raise in the green house?

 

[windthrown]

And please, let's get off the myth of "heat being sucked out of the house" thing by wood stoves. Ain't true EXCEPT in completely air tight envelopes, which was in vogue awhile ago with high tech heat exchangers. That building technique died fast--think "sick houses" . Outside air code requirements came in because of those over tight homes. No way needed in the average well insulated house of today or older houses with many cubic feet of incoming air and air exchanges. Open fireplaces do "suck" heat, not the average EPA wood stove.

A myth? Thermodynamics is a myth? Sorry... physics does not lie, and this is not some cooked up wife's tale. It can be proven, very easilly with a blower door. It does not matter if the house is tight or not; of if you have an EPA fireplace, wood stove or coal stove or whatever. Plain and simple, the hot air going out your flue in any type of heating appliance that does not have a direct source for cold air input is stealing the warm, heated air from your house and tossing it out into your yard through the flue! And then you have to re-heat the cold air that came inside to replace it with. Check the flue rate of air going out your chimney sometime. That is a lot of air going out that thing, and a lot of heat is going with it.

 

[smoothED]

[/font]

No, this winter will be the most expensive heating year on record. Chicken little or not, heating oil prices are almost two times what they were last year. Its gonna be ugly for a lot of people, especially in the Northeast there in New England.

You have your head in the sand up there in Maine??? Are you completely unaware of the energy crisis and limited global resources? And Al Gore? Who the :censored: is he? This has nothing to do with politics, or global warming, and everything to do with the new era of EXPENSIVE OIL.

Wake up Bubba... time are changing.

here-here!

 

[irishcountry]

acucraft wood inserts

Hey mga I do a little bit of everything annuals, perennials, vegetables ect. just not trees/landscaping and or really green stuff that you would probrobly make alot more money off of!!! HA just kidding I have been asked by "certain" customers before from time to time so I thought i'd throw that in!! The greenhouse has been a long time business that I have really grown to enjoy no pun intended. I have kept it a pretty small mom+pop kinda place that people seem to like since its pretty service oriented I try to spend time with each person and get to know them with a smile on my face when they get out of their cars I try to be completely honest with them even if it means sending them to another local grower if I don't have what I think will work for them I think that has came back to me in a good way. Like I said its been nice for me and allowed me time with my kids in between seasons ect. so I have got lots of really good memories here. So on another note has anyone seem or own a Acucraft wood insert they seem reasonably priced and offer a water loop that on the biggest model claims it can provide heating for hot water and in floor radiant. The reason I ask is we already have a regular masonry fireplace that hasn't been used for years it is now in our master bedroom that used to be the living room when the house was originally built, that said its a ways to the mechanical room but if I could use it inside and run lines like they do for OWB to the mechanical room tie it into our existing boiler and water heater it would be perfect. Well thanks for the replys irishcountry