MS 660, Should I get one

[Kupreanof]

blsnelling,

If you were to utilize the ci of the 660 engine and used a larger sprocket like say a 10 pin, could you get the chain speed that you're getting on that 372 without running higher engine rpms to achieve the same chain speed as with the 372? Would the 372 bog running a 10 pin sprocket? That would give you performance without the trade-offs that running higher engine rpms requires.

You can get chain speed (let's face it, it's chain speed that makes the cut fast or slow) with higher engine rpms or using the torque of a larger displacement engine to turn a larger diameter sprocket.

Equal chain speed causes equal wear to the b/c, so the only difference would be weight/ergonomics etc... of the powerhead. That would go to the light fast saw of course.

My point is that a 660 can run a much larger sprocket due to the greater displacement and thus if it utilized that advantage could put the 372 behind it handily. Whether or not that is practical or not is another debate (would the 660 have to utilize say a 14 pin (purely hypothetical) sprocket to leave the 372 behind, if so it's not going to happen as the cover, bar etc... would have to be modded to fit it even though the engine could turn it).

Does that make any sense or do I need to take the marbles out of my mouth?

 

[Meadow Beaver]

A 10T sprocket?:monkey: Most people will only go as far as using an 8T sprocket because the saw needs to make a lot of torque to still be able to pull with the bar buried.

 

[Evan]

my tired 066, only has 125lbs of compression

ported with 9 pin. this is without a doubt my fastest saw in small wood.
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thats a 28" bar and stihl full skip round ground chain

dawged on it alittle in this vid. woods alittle small and the bars alittle long to be dogging close to the ground. it does seem to maintain rssss even when pushed on
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this sawing wearing the 8 pin is still alittle faster then my ported 440 but not by very much. the 8 pin will probly be best with the 32" bar in big wood

 

[Kupreanof]

A 10T sprocket? Most people will only go as far as using an 8T sprocket because the saw needs to make a lot of torque to still be able to pull with the bar buried.

Depends entirely on how much chain your pulling. You can use a larger sprocket when pulling less chain.

My point is that if the saw is set up for the wood being cut, the saw turning the most chain speed will win every time. In doing so there is no (good) substitute for cubic inches. Higher engine rpms will do it, but at a cost of increased heat and friction and ultimately decreased longevity.

A smaller saw running higher engine rpms can catch up to a big saw not being properly utilized for the application as in the video, but at a cost and not for long if the bigger saw were using it's advantages properly.

 

[Meadow Beaver]

It all depends on what size wood your cutting and how long of a bar, and what chain, and blah blah blah.

 

[mdavlee]

A 9 pin is getting close to being hard to keep the chains on. I have a 9 that I haven't run yet but test fit to see if I had to trim the bar. It keeps the chain from touching the first inch or so on the end close to the sprocket. A stock 660 doesn't like a 32" and an 8 pin in hardwood about 25". A ported one should have no problem with it as I'm running an 8 on my 390 with a 28" bar and it will pull it buried in oak. A 372 won't pull an 8 with as much torque. You won't be able to lean on it as much as the 660 per say.

 

[Meadow Beaver]

Yeah and throwing a chain with a 9T wouldn't be pretty.

 

[blsnelling]

Cuts awesome Brad.

Is that the big bore 372?

What chain/grind?

Yes, it's a BB. It's wearing round ground Stihl RSC chain off my grinder.

 

[AUSSIE1]

You can run slightly lower rakers on a torquer saw for more bite.
Go too far and it gets a bit grabby though.

 

[blsnelling]

I would personally never put a 9-pin rim on a 660. Matter of fact, that's what I like on my 084. Sure, it'll pull a bigger rim, but it's more difficult to operate. Another thing to consider is that most of our wood out east is much harder than the conifers out west. Anyone that says otherwise is using a very light touch, or cutting very soft wood. All I can say, is try it and see.

 

[blsnelling]

A while ago I had a dry 36 diameter tan oak to buck up. I went from a 260, to a 036, to a 460, and then to a 084. There was a significant difference in the cutting rate as I went up in saw size. I stayed with the 084 because it "got it done".

In all honesty, there's no saw more disappointing than a stock 084/088/MS880, the MS880 the worst. Chain speed is slow, and the rev limiter is unbearable. Mod them, and they're unbelievable! The same comments apply to the 3120.

 

[Meadow Beaver]

ported with 9 pin. this is without a doubt my fastest saw in small wood.
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thats a 28" bar and stihl full skip round ground chain

dawged on it alittle in this vid. woods alittle small and the bars alittle long to be dogging close to the ground. it does seem to maintain rssss even when pushed on
<embed width="600" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowFullscreen="true" allowNetworking="all" wmode="transparent" src="http://static.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid661.photobucket.com/albums/uu339/Evan03_photo/saw%20vids/GEDC1955.flv">

this sawing wearing the 8 pin is still alittle faster then my ported 440 but not by very much. the 8 pin will probly be best with the 32" bar in big wood

Evan how is it that you just put that saw back together and it only has 125psi?

 

[blsnelling]

Evan how is it that you just put that saw back together and it only has 125psi?

He talks about it in his thread about it.

 

[Meadow Beaver]

Oh I missed that, still awfully low.

 

[056kid]

You can run slightly lower rakers on a torquer saw for more bite.
Go too far and it gets a bit grabby though.

Aaa thats where the fine tuning comes into play..

 

[Evan]

this it not fast cutting but this saw is ported and handles the 32" chain pretty good.
im hopeing the ported 066 is faster. if it isnt maybe ill give it away.
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got away to go and the rds getn bigger with each cut. finished this tree bucking from both sides
this is very dry seasond for 8 plus years doug fir. this tree was well past the 32" bar tip.

i actualy probly wouldnt have used the 066 on this tree with the tree being almost head level it would have been much more work lugging the 66. so yes the 70cc saws and 32" bars have there place. but i guess if its enough faster id do it anyways

 

[AUSSIE1]

Aaa thats where the fine tuning comes into play..

Yeah, using the torque to some advantage.

this it not fast cutting but this saw is ported and handles the 32" chain pretty good.
im hopeing the ported 066 is faster. if it isnt maybe ill give it away.
<embed width="600" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowFullscreen="true" allowNetworking="all" wmode="transparent" src="http://static.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid661.photobucket.com/albums/uu339/Evan03_photo/GEDC1439.flv">
got away to go and the rds getn bigger with each cut. finished this tree bucking from both sides
this is very dry seasond for 8 plus years doug fir. this tree was well past the 32" bar tip.

i actualy probly wouldnt have used the 066 on this tree with the tree being almost head level it would have been much more work lugging the 66. so yes the 70cc saws and 32" bars have there place. but i guess if its enough faster id do it anyways

A well ported 371/2 BB will spit chips in the face of a stock saw in the 85-95cc range, even in reasonable sized wood.
Do an equally good port job on a 385/90 or an 066/660 and look out.

I'd use my 385 on that log Evan as I don't see the need to run the 371 when I have the 385 for wood that size.

This is similar to both my 371 and 385, but I found that with a comp increase, muffler mod, blending the lowers, mild inlet and greater work on the exhaust produced quick cutting torquey saws which lends well to bigger bars with a well maintained chain.

 

[Evan]

to be honest ive learned more since porting this 372. the 066 is ported much better. the 372 is mild. i belive there is more to be had in this saw lots more maybe.

you are right ill use the 66 in wood this size and itl get used often.

id like to see a vid of this log next to a hardwood tree that just got put on the ground and see how much faster (softer) cutting the seasoned fir is.

when i joined this site it seemed the 90cc saws were recomended quite often for wood in 28" plus range. now it almost seems the 70cc saws have ported the 90cc saws out of a job. i can even remember not long ago members saying i would be better of with 85-90cc saw for alot of the trees i do. things have changed i guess so ill find out for myself.

 

[AUSSIE1]

to be honest ive learned more since porting this 372. the 066 is ported much better. the 372 is mild. i belive there is more to be had in this saw lots more maybe.

you are right ill use the 66 in wood this size and itl get used often.

id like to see a vid of this log next to a hardwood tree that just got put on the ground and see how much faster (softer) cutting the seasoned fir is

Yeah I'd be surprised that in time, you don't pick up that 66 more often in large wood.
Ported saws in this range are just so nice.

As much as my 371 can handle large stuff, I prefer to use it for quick cutting in the smaller stuff.

 

[Evan]

ohhhh trust me ill use it alot. i just got this saw a few weeks ago. i didnt have it for this firewood season when the 372 was lugging around the 32" bar. ive got 40" plus tree that im gona get soon as the snow melts off enough. might even swing for 42" bar and put the 7 pin on it and get most of it from one side. man i like big trees. this tree is probly a trailer load by itself